Honest question for white people that don't consider themselves racist:
White nationalists have been vocal about their attacks on DEI. These are literally the same people that talk about Charlottesville, Jan 6th, and ethnic cleansing.
They've laid out exactly how they plan to destroy DEI.
Make false claims that DEI is about giving unqualified Black people an unfair advantage
Work with racist politicians to use this as a pretext to make all DEI programs illegal.
@mekkaokereke here in south africa it's not an uncommon topic of discussion, but we have a different relationship with our past and present racism (not better, just different)
@mekkaokereke As the owner of a single-employee business... not so much. But, that said, if I ever grow to have more employees, I absolutely intend to include DEI in the process.
@mekkaokereke As the DEI attacks in the public sphere have been increasing, the Amlaw 50 firm I work for has been bolstering its diversity team. Very proactive and leading by example particularly when swimming against the current, and I’m grateful to be working for a company that literally puts their money where their mouth is on this issue.
@mekkaokereke I'm on the DEI committee for one of our university centers. We have a two year paid internship program for getting undergrads into STEM research. Our chair had to have many hours' conversation with the university lawyers about how we are recruiting, interviewing and selecting the winners of the competitions to get these positions. It came out we just had to drop our question that explicitly asked about diversity. We focused on adversity instead. It ends up with the same result.
@mekkaokereke I haven't, mostly because I hadn't really thought about it. I think I would worry that they'd feel I was bringing it up to them because they are Black and that I wouldn't with others, which effectively means I'm treating them differently.
Maybe that's not a good reason not to do it. Or maybe it's a good reason to voice my support for DEI efforts publicly.
Either way, thank you for bringing it up. It's something I will do now.
I don't have any black colleagues in my regional department. I'm not sure we've had any apply (we're in north Germany). We're painfully white and only a little bit female.
But, answering anyway:
I probably wouldn't bring it up.
I would be worried that I'd accidentally imply that they were hired partly because of their ethnicity rather than their abilities. Scared of putting my foot in it and insulting them.
I get the point and will definitely keep it in mind.
@mekkaokereke I have no black co-workers. Our main workforce is not local, which is what happens at higher degrees. I live in SW MO, and could definitely imagine black prospectives avoiding the location, I would and I’m white. I’m not really here because I want to be here. We have a very large international contingent from Asia, and I suspect the concept of DEI is totally alien to them.
This area is segregated as hell, so I know very few black people at all.
@mekkaokereke As an isolated author I don't have coworkers in the same sense, or conversations with them. Our version of DEI is about publishers making explicit calls for submissions by Black, indigenous, and other marginalized authors, and our version of pushback is generally white authors banding together to try to "game" writing awards to push their white friends' work. My way of supporting DEI is to boost visibility of posts by writers of color and calls for work by writers of color.
Yes, it is a topic that naturally comes up during hiring, and I don't only mention it to the PoC in the room. It's a topic for the whole team.
As said in hiring/people development it is logical to come up. Outside of that I don't mention it much, if it's not brought up. We usually have other things to talk about and I don't want to make highly talented people feel like they are only in the room because of DEI - because they are not.
@mekkaokereke I work at a university that is so down with DEI, it would change it's name to DEI if it could.
This would be the worst place in the world for a bigot to work or take classes.
My work is basically "internal marketing" so we're quite conscious of making sure our designs set the right tone and reflect the diversity of the school.
My black coworkers probably don't think I'd still be here if I had a problem with DEI, but.....I also think you have a point.
It wouldn't exactly be a risk for me to be more obvious in my embrace. I just have to figure out how to do it in my own way.
I'm white but with four (one deceased) younger brothers who are Black. They are adopted, started as emergency foster care children. That itself I have come to believe is a debate that needs to be had but I'll discuss that at the end of my 🧵 reply.
Having Black siblings certainly gives me a somewhat unique perspective amongst white people, but even when young before they were part of the family, I saw the need for it first hand.
@mekkaokereke There have been some changes around in our company, but they have stressed they do not want this to impede DEI initiatives, as well as ERGs which are setup as safe spaces to support others. So me personally I haven't felt like speaking up has been necessary. Maybe that’s my own hopeful attitude getting in the way though, that voicing out is good to enforce it regardless?
i think i'm vocal about DEI stuff on linkedin, especially in sharing posts by DEI posters
that said, i didn't consider the importance of being vocal about it to black / non-white colleagues, instead thinking i should have been focusing on my white colleagues
you raise a good point (as usual) tho and i'll be more mindful
@mekkaokereke I'm struggling with these questions a lot. I haven't had that kind of conversation you're advocating for, and I'm having trouble imagining how I'd do it in a way that my underrepresented coworkers would find welcome.
I've done a ton of work supporting DEI in my career, including some very public advocacy, and a bunch more work internally. I've consistently build diverse teams and retained underrepresented staff, and I think done a good job building inclusive workplaces. But…
@mekkaokereke … I have not, recently or otherwise, "vocalized my support of DEI" as you've suggested. I've tried to do the work and let my results speak.
I'm imagining pulling aside a Black co-worker and saying "by the way I support DEI" and I can't imagine this feeling welcome. I certainly wouldn't want a co-worker pulling me aside to tell me they support Jews, I would hate that.
Am I thinking about this wrong? Can you help me understand what I might say that would be welcome?
@jacob@mekkaokereke this was my thought exactly. it seems really awkward and inappropriate to single out people and just volunteer "as a white person, I support you!" I can see if a company has like, an internal message board where people are discussing DEI, you can come in and support DEI efforts at that level. I've certainly done that here.
But "These bad faith attacks on DEI are terrible. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. We're not falling for it. I'm here if you want to talk." Is much better!
Because it matters to me and my position means I can. Because I'm not going to let the bastards win without a fight. Not 1 on 1 because I don't think that will be welcome - it seems too much like asking for a cookie and making it their problem, rather my fubar "family"'s problem.
Honestly, I don't think it makes much difference. I think they are rightly suspicious of the workplace and of me, if they even think about it/me at all. They don't know me, they don't know if/when I will betray my public positions when they are privately inconvenient, as so many like me do all the time.
@mekkaokereke I am not employed at the moment and work for myself, but I’d be vocal if I was. My brothers who are republican do hold the belief they are somehow hurting because of DEI efforts. They both live in texas and Oklahoma. I have never understood this line of thought but it’s prevalent with white males especially in red states, unfortunately. Not speaking all, of course. I have many white male friends who do not think this way but they are fewer.
@mekkaokereke They're attacking disabled people and trans people too, and that's part of the reason I am now out of work. I was part of my work's DEI programme. I worked with Black and other marginalised colleagues to resist changes that removed 'inclusivity' from our values. Marshaling the other ERG leaders to take concrete steps to communicate with the executive and addressing them in language that would be persuasive heavily impacted my own health. We didn't get our leaders to put inclusivity
I'm a DE&I ambassador and a nene of the US board of our LGBTQIA ERG
Luckily, the company takes these things seriously and we still run into issues
I'm in Silly Valley and our CA execs think we are diverse even tho we recruit mostly from Stanford and some university in China that I can't recall the name right now and have a lot of European colleagues
But, out of 400 there are only 2 blacks and 4 Latin. We only bring in people at PhD level
So we leave out those without the means to obtain a PhD
There is a fledgling program in Oakland to get companies to forego this requirement to get people who may be just as talented but cannot afford to obtain the credentials
It's an uphill battle but we do have exec buy-in and HR support
I spoke to the heads of the CS and Engineering departments of many top CS schools, and dozens of CS professors, and asked them all what the single biggest lever we could pull to increase the number of Black women with Masters and PhDs in CompSci. Most of the profs and dept heads said the same thing: reduce the percentage number of Black CS students that are in poverty.
Success requires your family to be able to help you weather an unforseen $2000 event.
@mekkaokereke Re (2): I haven’t... because I've heard over and over that words don't mean anything. I look for ways to act, but I'm worried about looking like a performative ally if I talk about it. So there's the “why" for me.
I don't know if I'm doing it right; certainly I support DEI initiatives.
@mekkaokereke I joined a DEI initiative at a previous employer precisely to show support. I was mostly quietly supportive in meetings because I understood that the POC appreciated me just being there. I don’t have that lived experience, time was limited, and other voices were more important.
Other white dudes dominated the conversation with some rather unpleasant anti DEI perspectives.
@LinuxAndYarn@mekkaokereke I will politely decline to answer this, because whether it is or isn't that employer will aide someone in identifying which employer it is. Which I don't think is fair.
I privately told the (clearly upset) POC after the event that this was not my perspective, in context at the time.
But I certainly wouldn’t approach someone to say what you suggest. For context I’m a mild mannered British guy. We just don’t do that. Your suggestion feels very “valley” centric tbh, right or wrongly. I mean that with kindness and respect.
I... spent most of my childhood in England? I went to school in London and Warwickshire county. I didn't move to Silicon Valley until I was in my 30s.🤷🏿♂️
And depending on what part of England you're in, and which English people you're talking to, England is way more confrontational than the US. There will be more fist fights between soccer fans in London this week, than between NFL fans in New York any week, including when Philly plays the Giants. There are more fights in school. Etc.
I understood you were asking about the modern work experience, not punch-ups on the 3rd division terraces. These seem like wildly different environments to me.
I stand by my assertion that, conventionally speaking, British nature isn't as forward and assertive as the bubbly valley types.
Maybe I'm wrong; I'm not the only one who feels this way. However, it's my lived experience.
I somewhat regret engaging now my point of view has been dismissed. 🤷
But your "point of view" wasn't dismissed? You said that you personally wouldn't feel comfortable saying something, and I didn't challenge that at all. Your POV is 100% valid! 👍🏿
But then you made an assumption about me being a silicon valley person, and made a statement about how people in England are different. I disagreed with your characterization of me, and gave my experience living in England.
I didn't assume you were a "silicon Valley person" although you do currently live there and work for a company based there, so it's a fair assumption IMO. :) We are all influenced by the people and culture around us.
There is a "valley-culture" which I believe is somewhat imbibed by people who work there.
I simply pointed out that approaching people like that (which I understood you advocated) is a very "valley-culture" thing to do, and ask. 🤷
I consider myself an ally, and have participated and indeed encouraged DEI initiatives within multiple orgs.
Perhaps I misunderstood your original question. My reading made it feel like you were asking if people would "out of the blue" approach POC and with no other context, offer support. That's what I found uncomfortable "as a brit".
But in context, sure, the answer is yes. I hope that clears it up. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
@mekkaokereke Yes. Helped start a Community of Practice for DEI at my workplace back in 2019. Why? Because I believe (strongly) that an org with strong DEI practices is better for everyone, including folks who are not part of a traditionally marginalized group.
I'm asking these questions, because I have a different view than many of my Black friends. A lot of my friends think that most white folk are against DEI, and are happy with the changes that the white nationalists accomplish. They think that most white folk are silent, because they are anti-DEI.
I think that many white folk haven't even thought of how their silence is interpreted by their Black coworkers. Internally they might think "Oh no! That is so wrong!" But then not say anything.
@mekkaokereke It genuinely confuses and shocks me that the default isn't to assume that everyone is against this nonsense - and its just a small percentage of bumpkins you don't see.
Even being asked to say, "anti-DEI is stupid" feels childish, because, duh?
I don't find it useful to debate if this means that most white people are racist or not. That's an impossible to answer question about what percentage of people are "deplorable" vs "misguided."🤷🏿♂️
Example: At least one person who reads the above post, who was planning to vote for Trump in 2024, will say, "Wait what?! Founded by a nazi to do ethnic cleansing? I joined an ethnic cleansing campaign?! I promise, I didn't know that it was founded by a nazi! I just don't like Dems!"
@shram86 I don't like Dems. There are many republicans I don't like either. I'm not voting for a team, I'm voting for policies I want implemented. I work with parties (both major an minor) to try to get people I can overall support on the ballot, while I accept nobody will agree 100% with me, if you are not close enough I'll vote someone else.
Did you know that the goal of the alt-right is genocide and ethnic cleansing? Which they plan to start with "peaceful ethnic cleansing" while consolidating power under a new fuhrer, and then later "regular ethnic cleansing" WW2 style?
Did you know that Trump implemented most of the peaceful ethnic cleansing policies in his first term?
A lot of Black folk think that you did know, because how could you not know? It's 2024, and Trump doesn't hide this stuff. They think that a lot of white folk do know all this, and just don't care. Either because they support it, or are indifferent to it.
From my experience walking people through it, I find that most folk didn't know, don't believe it, and have to be shown lots of primary sources to believe it, then say, "But they can't do that!"
I agree with you in part. Unfortunately, I feel that more older white folks than you might think are influenced by the "Didn't Earn It" propaganda that is out there. It is not necessarily straight up racism, but it does still exist.
Those who are not straight up racist also have fallen for the "meritocracy" propaganda. They really believe at some level that "better qualified" people actually get the jobs and places in schools. I won't go into all the ways in which this problematic, but suffice to say that someone can believe this without being totally racist.
DEI efforts have an up hill battle against a lot of propaganda that goes a long way to cover its racist underpinnings. Which is why DEI efforts are so important in this country.
@MylesRyden@mekkaokereke
It is straight-up racist to be anti-DEI though. 😩 It's not even subtle. Someone's lack of self-reflection or insight doesn't make their beliefs non-racist.
@mekkaokereke I'm a political freak/weirdo and I actually enjoy discussing politics and sharing & defending my political views.
I want people to talk about politics openly, even if we disagree. Because for like 90% of the people I talk to, I'm certain there's a common ground which preserves democracy and excludes the Nazis.
But if we don't talk, if other people don't share their views, then the Nazis say "Ah! See everyone agrees with us!"
@mekkaokereke
I have been retired for 3.5 years and the attack on DEI programs at Texas public universities began after I retired. I had a conversation with the assistant VP who oversaw these programs at the school where I worked for 32 years at a birthday party for a mutual friend. I discussed the general trend toward greater acceptance of racism with my Black next door neighbor. A barber who hears a lot from customers, he told me that he thinks people are scared. I think he meant that people are scared by demographic and sociological changes they see. Maybe that’s true. But what disappoints me is that faculty members and other employees at Texas public universities seem afraid to push back or even discuss these issues—I think they are afraid of retribution. Earlier in my career there were tenured faculty who would speak out loudly and persuasively about diversity issues, getting the faculty senate involved in taking a firm stand. Those faculty members are retired and their successors are silent.
@mekkaokereke As a cis white male I fought with admin at my high school to hire more poc as most of the students had no one that looked like them in positions of leadership in the high school I taught at.
Pointed it at staff meetings that our staff makeup did not reflect our student population
After 15 years things started to change. New admin came in and started hiring.
I rammed thru an advanced placement program, advocated for diverse people to come in for career days etc.
@mekkaokereke I don't say anything because it feels performative. Saying I support DEI seems insulting when I know I'm not really doing anything beyond saying that.
@mekkaokereke but thank you for calling out the prevailing viewpoint among Black folks. I'll make sure to be more vocal about my support for DEI so Black folks in my orbit see a supportive white person.
I consider this similar to how I must vocalize my progressive views as a Midwesterner bc my coastal colleagues rightly assume that as a Midwesterner I'm conservative.
@mekkaokereke I do speak up, but I dont know if it's visible. I will shut down people who blame things like the Boeing door blowout on DEI, but the issue is they wouldn't say that in front of people that need to hear my vocalization.
@mekkaokereke I fully support DEI and am vocal about it. I grew up in the same ghetto as my class brethren and know full well my ability to be seen as a white man (a fictional thing since there is no white or black race we are all just humans in my view) was why I was not incarcerated, why I was offered scholarships, why I was interviewed for jobs. Of course I had to work hard to get out of poverty, but I know that people of color have to work even harder and have many more barriers than I did. Until we can all stand side by side together in peace and justice without those barriers and racial prejudice we need DEI.
@mekkaokereke even though I live on the other side of the Atlantic, we also have lots of men on the (extreme) right crying about diversity, equity and inclusion. Because that’s kind of #woke to them.
Luckily it seems more embedded in our society but things can go wrong quite easily. We try to raise our daughter with the #DEI in mind, so she’s not going to accept crap from men. And we try to contradict/ argue with those in our bubble, that rail against #DEI.
@davidbootster@mekkaokereke DEI /is/ Woke. That's the point, that's why racists and fascists (crypto- and overt-) seek to denigrate, dismiss, trivialize both: Because those who "woke up" after the George Floyd murder are encouraged to "stay woke" and those who think the old-white-guys-club needs to get over itself and let in not-so-old-not-so-white-not-such-guys threaten to expose the impotence of the old-white-guys who can only hold power by disenfranchising others.
@mekkaokereke There are probably a lot who also "don't want to stir the pot". Of course that's just a euphemism for being scared of social reprisal for standing up for what they believe.
In other words, true or not, I think many white people have the exact same expectation as your black friends: that other white people are against DEI and are more racist than they let on. Too many of us come across that and prefer the ignorance-is-bliss answer, so we don't press or even bring the subject up.
@mekkaokereke
I’m happy to answer as a white Brit and my individual limited experience.
DEI is occasionally discussed conceptually as it is practicality handled by HR. We are not aware of its use which probably has more to do with very good labour laws in the UK.
Not being aware isn’t necessarily a bad thing as anyone starting a job is assumed to be hired on merit. This might indeed simply be an extension of white privilege to not imagine any other way.
When it does rise up though I point out that it’s not DEI or merit, it’s DEI is merit.
Firstly, with more hoops to jump through, when a black person rated identically to a white person, the black person is probably more able. DEI therefore accounts for this and picks on merit.
Secondarily, diversity is strength. A wider range of views adds more to a team than a narrow one, so on merit, a black person brings more.
An example of why this is important we need to just look at sexism, and how much NASA must have intended on unnecessary spending in sending up tampons. 100 for one women for 7 days!
The answer isn’t ’this is why we don’t send women’, the answer is ‘where are your female flight engineers who should have sorted this before bothering your rock star astronaut?!’.
@mekkaokereke I think it can feel awkward to bring up your support for DEI - like it might highlight that I will complain about the corporate racism but I’m not DOING enough to change things. However those feelings can keep change in the workplace from happening.
When our EDI director left and said in a letter that it was because they didn’t have the ability to affect change 1/2
@mekkaokereke I participated in whatever discussions I could to make sure the executive team knew staff weren’t happy that she left because she was essentially a figurehead- my job gives me the ability to look for diversity for our location so we actively look for diversity when we hire.
@mekkaokereke thanks for this, my silence has been out of ignorance not malice.
As a hiring manager I’ve worked hard to ensure our process exposes and combats implicit bias, and that our candidate pool is balanced and reflects the population. But much of this effort is “hidden” because I don’t speak about it outside of those directly involved (HR, recruiting, my director, interviewers).
@mekkaokereke I’m currently not working but will start next week at a company that explicitly includes DEI in its core values. A big reason I wanted to join. My wife (also white) chairs the DEI committee at our kid’s school. We live in a very white town and have our DEI detractors, but the majority of people want the work to continue. Including our school board and leadership. We’re trying to drown out the negative voices all the time.
@mekkaokereke In addition to the great points you're making, I'd add that those of us who currently lack Black co-workers can & should proactively emphasize the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
That way we'll hopefully have prepared a less-toxic space for when Black folks decide it's worthwhile to work with us.
(As a bonus, we'll also help solidify a perspective that recognizes diversity as a strength before any anti-DEI people can start spreading their poisons.)
@mekkaokereke Fair question. I HAVE, but it's easy working in an international ad agency where DEI makes us more competitive in the market.
I think maybe a lot is that white folks live a more separate but equal life than they want to admit. But leaning into common ground when you're an ally is easy. If you like music, get out of the comfort zone and go to a blues, R&B, hiphop music festival (or just listen to the radio station). TALK about how awesome it is.
@mekkaokereke I see a slightly different pathology in which leadership likes to talk about their support for DEI efforts, but steadfastly defends their continued support for internal units that are actively hostile to DEI on the basis that not doing so would somehow infringe "intellectual diversity". (The real reason is that donors support the unit that employed John Eastman at the time of the insurrection and don't want it held accountable.) It's so hollow and reeks of clout-chasing.
@mekkaokereke “most” is a strong word, a lot of selection bias. a whole lot of white folk are conservative, a lot of them are my friends and family, and i do think that DEI is unpopular with them. So in that sense it could very well be true that most whites are against DEI. However, when confronted with what DEI actually is, even staunch white conservatives will agree that it’s good, at least in my experience
@mekkaokereke I'm self-employed working from home. So I have no Black co-workers to voice my support to. And, I am embarrassed to say, I don't have Black friends I interact regularly with. I see them occasionally, but the various arenas of my life are overwhelmingly white.
It's a problem I'd like to solve but also feel weird about. There's an aspect of "hi, I'm Courtney, and I want to get to know you because I need Black friends" to it all, which is just squicky.
@mekkaokereke I did recently have a great conversation with a friend who came over to help paint our house. He happens to be Black. The term "DEI" didn't come up. But in the course of convo, I said, "It makes no sense to me that some can say 'I love you' or even 'I care about you' to a person -- and then vote for a candidate who makes an open habit of harming those who are like that person."
My friend said, "That is the head of the nail right there."
@mekkaokereke ...simply because it didn't come up in conversation and it honestly didn't occur to me to state it that bluntly. I'd like to think that the views I generally express, the actions I generally take, and the general way I live my life and interact with others all make crystal clear where I stand.
I'd like to think anyone who knows me could say, "Well, Courtney hasn't come right out and said it, but she obviously supports DEI!"
But I recognize: that's my white privilege talking.
Someone once said, "Words do matter, and they are enough." Ehhhh, most of the time they don't matter if they stand alone without action to go with them.
But the words do need saying.
So yes: I support DEI.
Any arena of life is sorely lacking without Diversity.
Equity is a basic human right.
Our activities mean little without the Inclusion of those less privileged than we.
Exactly. Silence is equivalent to how neutral sides with oppression.
If a car’s steering wheel is biased to the right, the car will continue to drift to the right if we keep the steering wheel neutral. We have to turn the steering wheel to the left, equal and opposite to the bias, to be able for the car to stay in our lane.
@mekkaokereke
If it helps, racism is a mechanism of control on society which does impact everybody. It has trained a group of white society to aggressively gate keep the rest of society, all of it, white included.
White folk are silent because they have been trained to be silent, and due to white privilege, don’t immediately need to challenge it. The silence isn’t tacit approval to them, it’s avoidance of harm. It is literally the same thing as toxic masculinity and not speaking up to online trolls. They move the line to where they want it then police it.
This of course does not excuse silent white people because it is the tacit approval the racists designed, but it does explain how we got here. Speaking up rarely goes unpunished even if it’s just Margery being told off for making a fuss at the tea party… by Karen.
@mekkaokereke
No I haven't, because I was told that white people bringing up their support for black people randomly in conversation was awkward and overly cringe. I was told it feels like "ooh i can't wait to virtue signal to my black friend" (1/3)
@mekkaokereke i work from home so am never in a position to just hang out and chat with coworkers. I haven't brought up DEI, which I support, because it doesn't fit into general work discussions. Like hey, can you give me some technical info for this document? And oh by the way I support DEI. That would be super awkward and as an introvert I don't like awkward. Also the company I work for has good policies and mandatory annual refresher training.
@mekkaokereke Speaking up about structural inequality is now a significant career and advancement risk in corporate America. It’s also a risk I feel responsible to help shoulder as a white male if I want to improve the world. I’d rather help offload that risk from my non-white colleagues. They are already busy!
And if you are a white person and are uncomfortable saying that DEI or Black Lives Matter, ask yourself why that’s uncomfortable. It should be self-evident and an axiom!
@mekkaokereke I don't have any Black coworkers, so I don't really fit the poll. I'd be 1000% shocked if my Black coworkers at previous jobs didn't know I support DEI, because I'm the type to look at the company DEI report and complain about retention numbers. (Can't just recruit then not support!)
I think for the silent ones, not knowing how to vocalize it could be an aspect. Like you don't want to sound like the dad in Get Out saying "I would've voted for Obama a third time," ya know?
@mekkaokereke Well, I am retired in Mexico, so no coworkers. The term DEI just recently showed up on my radar. What I can say is that I am delighted to find a surprisingly large Black ex-pat community here, and attended a fascinating presentation on the Negritude movement last week.
@mekkaokereke Yes, I have, but not necessarily in the context of defending the initiatives. I co-lead the allyship ERG in Core (at Google) and have been sharing more of my thoughts with the group recently and am creating a few new initiatives to increase engagement.
You ask why? Because it's important to model the behaviors we want to encourage. I'd like to see more engagement in the allyship space, especially by those of us who have so much privilege.
@mekkaokereke I think you are right. I also think that often this is because we don’t want to come across as “white saviours” or because we feel helpless ourselves. But personal experience in other situations has made me think it’s important to speak up.
@mekkaokereke I think relating this to your own experience in other contexts might make it easier for people to understand that there is an emotional cost for marginalised people in simply observing marginalising or discriminatory actions even if, in a particular instance, they happen to other members of your community or are systemic. And how the silence of others in the face of injustice makes you feel like they don’t care.
@mekkaokereke There were two occasions where this was brought home to me. One was Brexit in the UK. As an EU citizen who had lived here for 25 years, I felt terribly betrayed. And because you didn’t know how people voted, you started looking at everyone a bit funny. But every UK citizen who came up to me and practically apologised for the vote, even if they themselves had voted against it, made me feel better.
@mekkaokereke The other time was the Pulse shooting in 2016. For me, as a queer person, this was oddly traumatising. I was in New York at the time, but I was knocked sideways. It was a couple of weeks before Pride and it felt personal even as I told myself that I was being a drama queen. Because, hey, I was literally thousands of miles away from Florida. But there was also this “it could have happened to me in any gay club, why do you hate me?” feeling.
@mekkaokereke And among all the outpouring of support on social media, I noticed EVERY SINGLE STRAIGHT PERSON, who didn’t say anything in support of the queer community or continued business as usual. While many of them probably thought they would be seen as virtue signalling IF they said something. But since then I’m trying to be more vocal about the fact that I do see when a racist action or a micro aggression happens. Because I don’t want others to feel like I did then.
I learned a valuable lesson after the Pulse night club shooting. A close friend and co-worker who is a straight white man, said to me that he felt pretty alone. I asked him why. He said that after most of the high-profile shootings of unarmed Black men, he would check in on his Black friends, most of whom were cis and straight. But after the Pulse shooting, only queer people checked in on him.
I realized that I hadn't checked in on him. It hadn't occurred to me to do so.
@mekkaokereke i've been fairly disgusted by the U.S. national media coverage of the Baltimore mayor after the Key bridge collapse. i can't see those attacks on DEI as anything other than racist dog whistles.
i like to think i'm lucky enough to work at an employer that stresses DEI in our business practices, but also through our community practices fostering open source software.
i haven't said those specific words about DEI to my peers, but i have voiced my disgust in a few venues.
@mekkaokereke I think the white fragility stops a lot of folk saying it out loud, as an educator I wonder about ways to help people stop centering their own discomfort in these interactions, and to recognise that their privilege means they have a responsibility to speak up..
@mekkaokereke I agree with you. I describe this as civic coldness.
Many white people are willing to reflect on racism (or other “tough” topics), but only under conditions they control—like in a museum or in an academic discussion.
As soon as their actions are needed for change, even though they agree and it wouldn’t cost them anything, the civic coldness switches on and they remain silent. I am uncertain but this may be even worse because it’s hard to fight.
@pa@mekkaokereke
Lip service to an idea is wholly different than real action for change. My institution has embraced "DEI" yet when it comes to actual change when hiring new colleagues - old institutional racism rears its head in so many subtle, discriminatory ways. Many "good people" want to be seen as good but dont want to give the power they accrued from biased systems.
@mekkaokereke there's different motives imo. Some will be anti-DEI, others might loftily think that "we've moved past that" (privilege is blinding) I think there's also likely a large contingent that are too insecure to speak up. Like a millennial who's still dependant on their racist parents for a financial safety net might keep their opinions to themselves because if they catch heat for it they might not just lose their job, but get cut off from family support as well
@mekkaokereke I think most good white people either “don’t want to make a big deal of things” or think “racism is over”. The silence is usually one or the other: don’t talk about it because you don’t want to embarrass a coworker about race, or don’t talk because privilege means it looks like we are all treated equally (but treating everyone like white men is not actually the same as treating everyone inclusively)
@mekkaokereke Over the years I put a lot of hours into DEI work, and there’s a complicating factor. While I put in the time and evangelized and led sessions etc etc, I was also vocally negative about the DEI because it NEVER MOVED THE FUCKING NEEDLE on either race or gender. My position was along the lines of “This isn’t working now but we have to keep trying.” I wonder if the direct explicit attacks now surging would have caused me to act differently.
@mekkaokereke Yes. DEI is about inclusion, welcome, and being your authentic self. White folks (myself included at times) have been taking that for granted for years. How many white folks here have been lucky enough to be invited to a real cookout? I guarantee you your perspective will change. (and the food is to die for)
Anyways - i speak up because I have far less to lose, and being a cis white man, the sad truth is I can "get away" with more. I wanna use that privilege for good.
@mekkaokereke on a few occasions I've initiated a conversation with a black coworker about race issues, expressing my support of them/opposition to the racism
The response I get is almost always some variant of "of course I know that, you don't need to waste your time reassuring me" sometimes with this vibe of "you're making me uncomfortable by talking about this and I wish you wouldn't." (1:1 or few:1)
Obviously, the people I talked to aren't everyone…but not exactly "keep it up!" energy
@igrok@mekkaokereke you're not going to get "keep it up" energy from a minority for merely acknowledging support. Especially if it's private or in a 1:1 conversation somewhere. That type of sentiment needs to first be demonstrated publicly or it'll feel like you're just fishing for support kudos from them
Which isn't your intent I'm sure, but there are a lot of people who want to feel validated for supporting [secretly] a "radical viewpoint" (eg black lives matter). That isn't really support
@hazelweakly character limits suck for nuance, and I'm squeezing these replies in between other stuff
Keep in mind that @mekkaokereke's friends are wondering why these conversations/statements aren't happening, and I'm just responding to that
As for more public actions, my workplace is publicly very supportive of DEI and not tolerant of badmouthing it, at least as far as I have seen and as far as my black coworkers tell me, so further performance is arguably performative?
@mekkaokereke yes, but it's also kind of easy because my Black coworkers are my bosses... And we serve a highly diverse neighborhood, so the need for active anti-racism comes up naturally, and the rest of my immediate coworkers are on the same page at that job.
The weirder one is at a different job & working with Latino & Filipino coworkers who don't like/respect DEI and so I try to be in conversation more generally. It's hardly anti-racist for me (white woman) to tell them how to do racial politics! So we tend to have more fact based and less theory based conversations on how things can be improved.
I work at a small startup and have only two Black coworkers, one of whom I often work closely with. I don’t want him to feel tokenized or put on the spot to validate me as a good white person. So I try to just drop signal into conversation where it feels natural to indicate to him that I’m supportive without requiring his response
It’s a fairly progressive company. I have a high degree of confidence, which I think my Black coworkers share, that the company values DEI
@mekkaokereke
Yes. As a white American in a (differently) racist work environment (English language education in Japan which has its own very significant problems with whiteness, sexism, and native-speakerism) have discussed in groups with white and Japanese colleagues. We have been in agreement that diversity is good for our students and workplace. Since 2017, doing much of the hiring we have a very diverse team of instructors. 1/3
Foreword: I don’t know that I can claim that I do not consider myself racist, as I’ve come to know it; and I can only speak for myself, but…
I have not.
To raise it, unprompted, would feel like I’m saying that’s their relation to me: “My Black friend or coworker”. That it serves as self-gratification / virtue signaling / white savior behavior to lead a charge. That it’s a hollow atonement. I otherwise want my friends or coworkers to know I recognize them for who they are.
@mekkaokereke Yes. One on one. Because I work in an “enlightened” company and so we never talk about it and I wanted them to know I was a safe place rather than someone who just assumes racism is over. I learned more than I shared, and need to follow up. I was hesitant to look like I want a “black friend”, but I was amazed to find instead that even now I get so little of my co-worker’s authentic self because we are so “inclusive” that they cannot talk about their true life.
“Because it is the right thing to do” feels both trite and accurate. I want my teams to know there’s someone who’ll speak up whether they are in the room or not. I’m privileged to have earned trust that I’m a white leader who you can raise issues to and I will amplify, echo, advocate or just listen as warranted. And I want to continue to earn that.
@mekkaokereke while not necessarily publicly I was heartened that when someone posted 'anti DEI' rederic they got shut down quick with fantastic responses. The whole thread got deleted which fair enough, but I made sure to give those reponders positive feedback through official channels (that their managers see).
I have not said it one-on-one would feel a bit like the dad in Get Out saying he voted for Obama twice. Like I was asking for an anti-racist cookie.
Beyond that I have not spoken about it in employee forums except obliquely, and to mention supporting our existing DEI efforts. (As a state employee in NC, we may soon have to figure out how to do DEI without calling it DEI because of our idiotic legilsature.)
"Don't consider themselves racist" 😬 the problem is, the country I come from, the people and community I'm built from, I can't consider myself not racist. I don't want it to be true, i can work to move away from it, but I can't and shouldn't pretend it's magically gone.
DEI are a core part of projects like Outreachy. Incredibly important. I don't get to have coworkers in my profession, but when involved in hiring or community management, DEI motivation exists.
@mekkaokereke I haven't directly told my non-white coworkers that I support DEI, but I debated a fellow white coworker on the merits of DEI in earshot of black coworkers.
> They've laid out exactly how they plan to destroy DEI.
I've seen a few posts mentioning DEI lately, but i regret that i have been completely oblivious of the fact that there was a planned/deliberate disinformation campaign.
Is there a wiki article about it somewhere with links to sources? (if not, it seems like there should be...?)
Literally the same people that said "Hey everyone! Watch this! We're going to make everyone hate CRT! And we're going to use the US press to do it!" And then successfully did that.
Then they said, hey everyone! "And now we're going to make everyone hate DEI!" They're the people who brought the Claudine gay plagiarism allegations.
They telegraph their moves, and yet they still work. Because the US press is so predictably racist. Fair play.
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