The new iPads are once again mind-blowingly amazing hardware showcases, hamstrung by software and an extractive App Store gatekeeper that limits what users can effectively do.
There is now such a large overlap of prices between iPad and MacBooks that we’ll probably never see a touchscreen Mac, because it would be a superior choice over iPad in most cases.
What I want, really, is macOS running on desktop, laptop, and tablet form factors, with a relatively open software environment not solely owned by the App Store.
I think Microsoft actually got it right with Windows 11 (minus the #enshittification ads). If only they pushed more strongly on the Surface lineup…
That's a really interesting idea. A big selling point of SwiftUI has always been that the rendering of the view code adapts to the platform. If it could do so as the platform changes within the same hardware config…
If you're suggesting that when "docked" to a Magic Keyboard, the UI looks like macOS, and when undocked, it looks like iPadOS, I worry about the cognitive dissonance of everything changing appearance.
A more unified look/feel would require a lot more work.
@felyashono@mariani1 This is exactly why I like Windows 11. It’s fully serviceable as a desktop UI, but adapts to tablet mode by making buttons etc larger.
I would prefer to double down on the desktop metaphor with tablet-specific additions, rather than the other way around.
@felyashono I think macOS-style window management will always suck in tablet mode, and porting UIKit code back into an AppKit app may both be easier and better than seeking a unified holy grail.
@drahardja That’s reasonable with SwiftUI, but seems next to impossible with AppKit. Does Microsoft manage to do that with all legacy apps?
@mariani1@felyashono Yes, legacy Windows app continue to run on Windows in tablet mode.
The way Win11 deals with the overlapping-windows issue is to offer snap-to modes everywhere. Snapping windows to tile or have them appear full-screen is very easy using drag gestures, and works well for tablets.
Porting UIKit to AppKit is not necessary, thanks to Catalyst (which I worked on). You can literally run iOS apps right out of the app store on a Mac desktop.
I'm inclined to agree, and I think that sense is foundational to Apple's design choices. What makes a touch-screen interface usable is substantially different from what makes a mouse-driven interface usable.
I once had a reason to use iTunes for Windows on a Surface. It was utterly unusable. The buttons were the right size for a mouse cursor, not my finger.
But that was many years ago, and I assume Windows 11 has fully rearchitected it?
@felyashono@mariani1 I keep hearing about this superior touch interface for tablets, but where is it? What does it actually look like?
The OS doesn’t have to solve all app problems; it can rely on app authors to make small changes to accommodate additional idioms. macOS has changed its chrome many times over successfully. Given a bit of time, app makers will adapt their apps to tablet mode on macOS.
Where is it? It's in iOS and iPadOS right now. Apple's UI guidelines allow large enough icons and paddings that every button is individually targetable with relatively large finger-pads. Not all interaction models translate directly, but as you say, the OS doesn't have to solve all problems.
Touch-and-hold is a better gesture for secondary (contextual menu) click. I don't think two-finger tap would work well on a touchscreen, like it does as a click gesture on macOS.
But the feature I hear about most often requested is a general window manager for iPadOS. I definitely do not want four windows tiled in quadrants on my 11" iPad Pro. No window would have enough space to be usable. These are tradeoffs iPadOS must make for its form factor. I fear everybody claiming otherwise will be frustrated if Apple ever implements it.
@felyashono@mariani1 My point is that the iPadOS environment sucks because it severely limits what apps can do, compared to macOS.
Touchable targets can be added to macOS. In fact, it already has. Note how huge the toolbar icons are today compared to how they used to look. Additional accommodations for touch such as touch-and-hold can be added to macOS. In fact, with Catalyst, they are already present.
General window management is just one aspect of it. An explorable and common file system is another. A means to configure, control, script, and program the OS at a variety of levels of abstractions is another.
Finally, a way to add programs without having to go through the App Store is important.
@drahardja But on the flip side, macOS with an on-screen keyboard and too many touch-sized buttons can also become unusable. I guess where we differ is whether that’s more easily fixed with an enhanced AppKit app or by providing an alternate UIKit UI…
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