There’s been a lot of speculation around what Threads will be and what it means for Mastodon. We’ve put together some of the most common questions and our responses based on what was launched today:
"Embrace, extend, and extinguish" (EEE), also known as "embrace, extend, and exterminate", is a phrase that the US DOJ used to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its competitors.
I think that the bridging solution is the safest and smartest way forward.
For the Federation/DeFederation conversation I really think that both sides have become too personal. Regardless of clandestine meetings or whatever - we need to operate from the position of -
"Hope for the best, make plans for the worst".
Best case scenario - they settle into the Fedi along with others. Sure we can hope for that.
But we need to assume that the potential for harm exists. We have to assume that the potential for bad admins exist. We have to assume the potential for #EEE (though I don't believe it works) will be attempted.
We need to consider these potentials and design accordingly. There is a risk here, and we need to think through things wholly.
I just had a look at #Meta's recent press release about #Threads, and something caught my attention right away.
For the very first time, they're acknowledging another #Fediverse platform alongside #Mastodon. Specifically, they're highlighting that #WordPress can now connect through #ActivityPub.
Now, you know Meta's PR department doesn't say things by accident. So here's why this is a big deal. Last time I checked, WordPress powers a whopping 43% of the Internet. Yeah, you heard that right! If you visit a website, there's a good chance it's using WordPress as its CMS.
Now, if even a fraction of those WordPress sites start federating, it could have a huge impact on the network effect of the Fediverse. Of course, Meta isn't oblivious to this. I've been talking about the potential of WordPress and ActivityPub for quite some time now.
But if you're particularly observant, you might also notice that they mention #Tumblr. We've known for a while that Tumblr is likely to integrate ActivityPub into their platform.
But here's an interesting tidbit: Did you know that one company, Automattic, not only owns Tumblr but is also the driving force behind WordPress?
I don't want to jump to conclusions, but once again, PR departments don't just drop hints randomly. I have a strong feeling that Meta has been having some high-level discussions with Automattic about the future of ActivityPub. It wouldn't surprise me if Meta has some insights into Automattic's upcoming plans for the Fediverse.
All this conversation about #Meta on #Fedi feels like the worst parts of geek culture. So technical, without understanding context or what strikes can actually do. My thoughts:
Meta will make a great app for Fedi because it has more money to throw at the task. People will start using that because it's better. It will have QTs and an algorithm. People they want to follow will be there.
A #strike / #fediblock doesn't let them do this. It prevents #Meta from entering the existing conversation with interesting content and dynamic developments. It makes it harder and more expensive for them to develop their own ActivityPub software, makes #EEE slightly more expensive.
Whoever thinks that we have somehow "won" by having them adopt #ActivityPub is deeply ignoring reality and history. We have opposing interests. They are capitalists, we are a commons. They want to eat us.
@loshmi I do not see it doing anything to make it harder for them to develop Activity
Pub, and zero to stop #EEE…. In one day they will have all the ActivityPub users to dwarf ours.
The former takes people from other domains and makes their posts green text on green background. The colors are manually set and not reflective of any magazine styles or the like, but I have no idea why rgba(20, 45, 20, 1.0) is the color someone chose. I recommend anyone who wants that script edit line#41 to something like GM_addStyle('[data-is-federated-content="true"] { background-color: #EEE; }');, but even then this is a bit annoying to have to do manually.
With the upcoming #meta#Project92 Fediverse service, there has been a, well, robust discussion of how to avoid threats looming. Those advocating mass-preemptive defederation make three cases for it.
➡️ To avoid data mining ...which Defederation does virtually zero to avoid any big tech entity scraping all the fedi public social graph today - Want proof?
see: https://is.gd/q8U2pv
The next argument is about poorly moderated P92 user posts and ad spam.
Which I'll discuss next.
No company ever tried to #EEE more than Microsoft tried to kill Netscape and own a proprietary browser. And in the end they had to fold to an open source Chromium with multiple stakeholders. And Firefox lives.
What else can defend against the "Extend" of #EEE?
Having a broad set of OTHER allies inside the tent of stakeholders. Growing the base of those who "embrace" it to even out the power dynamics.
And btw, defederating developers PREMPTIVELY before they launch a single activtypub server, is the fastest way to make OTHER potential developers run for the hills. (Actually to run to Bluesky)
The last thought for the night on this is what I think is the most important. Up next.
Last post on defending against #EEE: Until we get a robust test suite for #ActivityPub the risk is Meta or others "extend it" or the converse, support "almost all of it," but miss crucial bits.
Dave Winer mentioned once that Google leaving bits of RSS support out of Google Reader hurt the effort for years. (But it recovered and #EEE failed over time)
I'm working with a number of stakeholders now to see if we can build out an alpha of just this. Is crucial work. Want to help? DM me.
Last thought on #EEE: We need to support our standards makers STAT. The best defense against "extend" is a clear line of what we are defending.
#ActivityPub has needed a robust "test suite" to test compliance for a while & good efforts were unfinished. They need to be picked up at warp speed. To see an example of his working for other tech see: https://webmention.rocks/
The creator of the Wordpress ActivtyPub plugin said that he wished he had this.
More on why in my last post next.
Wrapping up: This isn't a new fight. OSS devs have been here before. Many times. And won.
We have all the tools, development energy & moderation tech to protect our people we need - without first strikes.
We have past #OSS & open tech fights to learn off of & as @atomicpoet & @erlend have argued well: being open - if they are - is a first crack in #Meta's armor.
We may get a window - if we both protect our people & don't act insularly - to run an #EEE campaign reaching out to THEIR users.
A year ago if you told me that Instagram would be joining the fediverse, I'd think your crazy.
Let's not forget why they are doing this though, thanks to EU laws they have to make data portable, and with federation support they can portray their monopolistic practices in a different light.
Meta is an advertising company, we are their next market to break into. Remember this.
I and others have talked a lot about the #Facebook / #Meta#FediVerse issue over the past few days, analyzing their strategy, and possible responses, and why pre-emptive blocking isn't an effective measure.
This leaves the question of "what should we do?" So....
ITT: actually effective measures for building the resilience of the FediVerse and #ActivityPub, informed by the experience of the #OSS movement.
@emc2@smallpatatas Thank you for saying this. One of the biggest issues I have with these talks in particular #eee is that people are not being open and honest about Facebook currently abilities. Nor are they saying the hard part out loud. This requires adoption. As you’ve stated Meta can’t force any implementations on instances. For the threat level that’s widely pushed here it requires adoption and compliance. Meta can’t force anyone. That’s the discussion that is not happening & it’s doing a disservice
Establishing robust test-suites to define common protocols is a time-tested method within the #OSS world for preventing things like #EEE. This is used, among other things, for the Java language and JVM specs, the major implementations of which are controlled by corporations.
I combined things from my winding thread of 10 posts last night into one article here, on #mata and #project92 rather than forcing folks to follow post by post:
Some people accuse me of putting "embrace, extend, and extinguish" (#EEE) to a standard that is unfalsifiable.
First off, it doesn't matter whether or not EEE is unfalsifiable -- this was still a monopolistic strategy that Microsoft tried to employ to kill competition.
But as it happens, EEE actually did work on a few occasions. Most prominently with OS/2 Warp.
What many people don't realize is that IBM didn't merely make OS/2. It was a collaboration with Microsoft.
But Microsoft stabbed IBM in the back and made a competitive product called Windows. Perhaps you might have heard of it.
Much of Windows was based off OS/2. Windows even had a similar UI to OS/2.
Every part of EEE happened to OS/2. Microsoft embraced it. They extended it. And OS/2 was extinguished in 2001.
Why was this possible? I suspect a big reason is that OS/2 was proprietary, not open source.
I actually feel that "embrace, extend, and extinguish" (#EEE) is over-emphasized.
In actuality, Microsoft used a variety of strategies in order to further their monopoly.
One of the most well-known cases is when Microsoft funded the famous SCO vs. IBM lawsuit in an attempt to kill Linux.
Another example is how Microsoft would literally threaten OEMs if they ever offered another OS that would come pre-installed on computers. That strategy was actually the most effective -- not EEE. Numerous competitors couldn't even enter the market because Microsoft had so thoroughly scared hardware vendors.
EEE was just one tactic amongst many to maintain Microsoft's monopoly.
Threads federates, you don't subscribe to anyone on the instance. Happy now?
Threads federates, you blacklist the whole instance in your user blacklist. Now happy?
Threads federates, you subscribe to a few people whose writing you like. Happy?
Threads federates. Threads users realize, they can jump ship to another Instance and still talk with and to and about their friends. Threads loses users. Happy!
People who use “dark mode” colour schemes on the web; is it preferable to choose it yourself via a setting specifically for the site, or have the site automatically switch based on your system preferences? Is there best practice here? #a11y
Il y a cette conception naïve que #Threads ne pourrait pas déclasser les publications externes via la fédération ActivityPub comme Facebook le fait déjà via les hyperliens. #EEE
You know what, you guise are right: there's no way #Facebook will be good for the #fediverse
me hoping facebook users might get a glimpse of internet outside their cave is naive at best
FB is gonna show up with the carrot of shiny UI and implement all the engagement driving sticky features which average users ask for and Mastodon devs have resisted
I don't think FB sees the fediverse or Mastodon as a competitor tho. I think it views us as a field of unbranded data cows free for the milking
Why do posts that aren’t from kbin show “kbin.social” next to the title?