A small but significant global movement is seeking to make #publictransport free to use as a central plank to #green urbanism.
as the Guardian point out:
'Flourishing & accessible public transport systems are an essential feature of sustainable 21st-century living. They are a means of social inclusion & wellbeing, helping to generate a sense of place and collective belonging'!
Being free from fares can be a big part of this... but in the UK we're wedded to an altogether different model!
@ChrisMayLA6 and before anyone says it wouldn't work in rural communities. We live in the Highlands, and the bus service is better than when we lived next to the A1 in England
@ChrisMayLA6 I suspect you're talking about England rather than the UK. Under 22s can travel free on buses in Scotland, and we get our bus passes at 60 rather than 65 here. Trains have recently been taken out of privatisation. We're moving in a different direction to down south
Yes, that would be right.... although even the SNP is not providing completely agree public transport, as you also suggest the direction of travel (no pun intended) is in a different direction
@ChrisMayLA6@Cyclist The Scottish Government operates within very tight budgetary constraints; they have limited tax raising powers, and cannot borrow except for capital projects. They aren't perfect but have done pretty damned well within those constraints.
I believe that, medium term, free public transport for all would be largely self funding – you'd lose a lot of congestion, pollution, health, road maintenance and other costs – but in the short term we probably can't afford it.
@simon_brooke@ChrisMayLA6@Cyclist Which makes it all the more peculiar that they are apparently stepping back from the ‘vote SNP majority for independence’ GE position.
@Indyposterboy@ChrisMayLA6@Cyclist the #SNP are more or less as useless as #Labour. We simply don't have any impressive political parties at all these days, and few enough impressive politicians. Which must in itself be seen as a failure of our systems of politics.
There would have to be sufficient services to meet the demand of replacing other forms of transport. Outside of major cities public transport is scarce.
@simon_lucy@ChrisMayLA6@Cyclist where? I live in Scotland on a farm two miles from the nearest village, population less than 250, and eight miles from the nearest town, population 4,000. I have one bus an hour each way from travel to work time until early evening. That doesn't seem to me unreasonably poor provision. Furthermore, for everyone under 22 or over 60, those buses are free.
@simon_lucy@ChrisMayLA6@Cyclist here? Adequate. Across remote rural Scotland generally? Can't say, it's a very big place. Across England? Don't make me laugh.
Yes, the key point is between long-tern benefits & short term iniatitioon costs.... in theory a fiscal model that allowed borrowing for 'investment' in public #infrastructure could square that circle, but that would require politicians to accept higher public debt.... which sort of goes against much rightest ideology
this is a bad effort that reenforces the idea that trensit is for abnormal people who cannot drive - normal people drive.
most 'normal' people can afford a small fare and in turn that can be used to run better service. most people care about service quality more than money.
Yes we should have a program to give the poor free transit passes. However that should be a tiny minority of riders not the basia of your transit system fares.
@bluGill@ChrisMayLA6 perhaps better to give the poor enough to pay the small fare, if they want to, or to save and buy a bike. Cycle friendly cities, save more car drivers lives than cyclists, and speed up travel times.....
@bluGill@ChrisMayLA6 you make a good point but to move people onto public transport, to really change behaviour long term, I think it being free would be a big motivator for the group that can afford cars.
Yes it will also need to be reliable, clean, relatively frequent.
We need to "sell" public transport to people, and making it free would be a huge psychological lever.
Reliable, clean and frequent is a much better way to sell it. People who can afford a car already have plenty of income, they won't be turned off by paying a fare (so long as it is reasonable) - in fact most don't even look at fares when they decide to ride/not ride. So use the fares you collect to provide better service - which is what people riding transit really want.
Most transit systems get at least 20% of their budget from fares. No transit system in the world is running 5 minute headways 24x7 everywhere in the city with a good mix of local and express routes. Where transit doesn't have that frequency 24x7 and a great mix of local and express routes a car is clearly better for everyone who can afford it and isn't stuck in traffic.
As such no system in the world has enough funding to provide the above service, and nobody proposing free fares is suggesting to give their transit system that much money. As such free fares (even if you increase the funding to make up for it) is spending money that would be better spend on better service.
@bluGill@ChrisMayLA6
"Most transit systems get at least 20% of their budget from fares. "
Then all that is needed is to change the funding system. Instead of making individual users pay, fund it from taxes. IOW Make the rich fuckers who pollute the most pay.
The rest of your argument is assumption and whataboutery.
Signed, a professional accountant with 40 years' experience.
I have never claimed that countries are not doing free transit. There are a lot of such systems around the world. I continue to contend that none of those plans are the best way to meet their goals (unless the goal is to long term starve transit thus getting more people to drive - which nobody admits to but might be the real reason behind some supporters). I contend that the best way to get more people on transit is provide better service, and that means take money from where ever you can get it and applying it to service. Fares are one place you can get more money, so take them.
Sorry with only 500 characters on my instance (which for the most part I like) I had to choose between commentary & ,link... so here's the link as requested:
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