“we can’t find any good candidates for this role” you’re auto-rejecting people with 20 years experience because they don’t have a degree and then AI-sorting the rest by how Jared their name is
@0xabad1dea "Regulations . . . [mean] a company could be liable [for a bias claim] even if a company doesn’t know why an algorithm chose one candidate over another." Well that would basically outlaw machine learning algorithms entirely, since it's famously impossible to reverse-engineer the algorithm's reasoning.
@drdnar@0xabad1dea it's actually not that hard to find out why a machine learning algorithm made any given decision: it's just more general explanations that are impossible. But people use the impossibility of one thing as an excuse not to do something related but easy.
Yeah, this. Contrary to popular belief, it's pretty easy to find out why an ML system gave the output it did if you know what you're doing. What's really hard is doing this in a predictive manner.
@0xabad1dea i started laughing at “After the company trained the algorithm on 10 years of its own hiring data” … it’s as if they are surprised that ML literally just encode bias from training data.
They could’ve pivoted to a bias sniffer bot! Have it just look at company hiring data and give it a ranking 🤪…
@0xabad1dea What really amazes me - and has for a while - is the clear admission that companies just generally have no clue how to hire people and are wildly flailing around to find a tool to just feel like they have a handle on the situation.
They have an economy which is rich for recruiting good people, and are just THAT incompetent at doing so.
@foolishowl mentioning your extracurriculars in high school and university on your resume is not just acceptable but expected in the US especially if it’s your first job out of school. The idea is that it shows you can get along with a team, show up on time etc
@0xabad1dea The classes I've taken on resume writing always said never to do that, that your resume would be thrown out if it had irrelevant personal details like hobbies.
But then, I've found repeatedly that the advice I've received from classes and books on resume writing is total bullshit.
@0xabad1dea I mean “former high school lacrosse player named Jared” strongly correlates with the requisite attributes of the “meritocracy”. I guess I should put Filipino-American Society membership (I actually don’t know of one here) and “plays piano” as a hobby on mine
@0xabad1dea I once had a third party recruiter tell me that they weren't going to submit my application to a company job application system because of the gap in my resume.
And like, I get that the gap looks bad, but...that's not going to get fixed if I don't get a job offer despite the gap.
@0xabad1dea ouch! as someone who would have graduated college 40 years ago and still gets auto-rejected because I don't have a degree, this really hits home...
@0xabad1dea Literally that's the case - and companies that don't do that shit literally try to lowball people for not fitting their absurd requirements [i.e. 10+ years of Swift & RHEL8 experience]...
You just described me perfectly. I had 20 years experience, but no degree. I was getting filtered out of every application I sent out.
I went and finished my degree over the course of two years, just so I could honestly check that checkbox, and all of a sudden I've started being headhunted by folks on Linkedin without even having to send out applications.
@0xabad1dea I had a recruiter all over me to hire me for a secretarial position, my best friend has similar experience and she was looking for work so I told him I would give his contact information to her. She was 100% qualified for that job but she had to pass a federal background check, she has a completely clean record but he told her that her student loans being in the income based contingent payment plan with a zero payment would look bad to the government. They declined to even interview her because of that. Then they cry nobody wants to work.
@maggiemaybe@0xabad1dea I've been turned down from a few jobs that I was qualified for and had internal referrals for due to my debt-to-income ratio.
When I pressed the one recruiter, they told me that my DIR classified me as a high-risk hire, and that I was more likely to be manipulated or compromised due to my student loan debt, and that the ideal candidate didn't carry any (meaningful) debt.
I mean – and this is no shade on you – that is literally true. People who are in economically desperate situations are more exploitable. That's, like, the literal basis of capitalism. And it is in fact something that espionage often is predicated on.
Our insane society hobbles people with debt that makes them vulnerable to exploitation and then refuses to employ them because they're too exploitable.
@siderea@Brett_E_Carlock@0xabad1dea I really like the way you did this reply, where you tagged us at the bottom so it was clear you were replying to that one person. I assume you did extra steps to do that and I just wanted to say thank you.
you didn’t have to because I assume this place works kind of like Twitter and the first tag in the reply is who you are actually replying to, but this was a well curated reply.
5 STARS
💜 It takes one extra click, just drop the cursor after the person you're replying to and go. Makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it? @Brett_E_Carlock@0xabad1dea
@siderea@Brett_E_Carlock@0xabad1dea oh yes, but wouldn’t that give them more of a reason to hire someone with lots of debt? I thought our employers liked us to be in debt because we have to keep going to work so we don’t drown.
It’s funny because I had a boss tell me he almost didn’t hire me because he didn’t think I REALLY needed the job and if I didn’t REALLY need the job would I keep showing up? (I was a job hopper because it was the best way to increase my income and they all hated it but they hired me anyway.)
That same dude later told me he almost didn’t hire me because I was “too hot” (I am not hot 😂) so maybe he was lying about that and he was just trying to get me to feel some kind of debt for my job.
But I actually think they prefer employees who have lots of financial obligations. When I didn’t have financial obligations I could literally quit my job on the spot and just go get another one because it was fine if I missed a paycheck.
Heh, wanting to hire economically desperate employees so they're extra exploitable and then being paranoid that they'll let someone else exploit them is pretty much the same self-contradictory craziness as wanting to get with a super hot person because they're so fuckable and then being paranoid that they'll let someone else fuck them. @Brett_E_Carlock@0xabad1dea
I had gone into this field and gotten these degrees with the understanding that my low income under government employment was my pound of flesh to pay for an in at these agencies and get eventual debt relief, but instead I got lolnope'd and told to go be poor and exploitable elsewhere.
Looking back, it was a gift, but I had years of financial instability after that rug pull.
@0xabad1dea It seems to me that hiring is just thoroughly broken, at least in the US. I have no idea how to fix it, but it just seems like there has to be something way better than this @%#@!
@jabberati@0xabad1dea Because the people calling the shots are MBAs, and that is a degree that poisons the ability to interact with the world as it is.
@shac@0xabad1dea
Speaking as a non-manager who sits on interviews for new employees, having an entirely different name on your resume is going to be a massive red flag (for me, at least). If you’re casually lying about your name, what else are you flat out lying about? Do most people exaggerate on their resume? Probably. Do I want someone who will call a customer and lie about their name? Absolutely not.
@ClickyMcTicker@shac@0xabad1dea keep in mind that some people don't have the same legal name as their chosen name, the obvious example being trans folks who either haven't or can't change their name on government paperwork.
interviewers shouldn't have a reason to see the candidate's legal name anywhere; that should only come up once you get to the stage of extending an offer and HR doing their background/reference check, at which point it's a private conversation with HR.
@ClickyMcTicker@shac@0xabad1dea this also extends to married academics who take their partner's surname, but often continue to publish their work under their former name because they've got an existing body of publications under that name. (this is surprisingly common!)
the simplest and most decent thing to do is stick to whatever name the candidate prefers, and let HR deal with the payroll and paperwork side where legal naming is actually relevant.
@0xabad1dea@brohrer After an exhaustive analysis (sample size: 1), I found out that people who enjoy Final Fantasy video games and programming Perl make great DevOps engineers (jk)
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