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themeatbridge, in What has Biden done to make Republicans hate him so much? Besides being a Democrat

Conservativism has evolved over the last 40 years, but at its core, it has remained consistent in having precisely one priority: the self. Conservatives define the self, and conversely the other, and then determine which policies and priorities benefit the self. The other is anything that stands in opposition to the promotion of the self.

There is no foundational ideology and no inherent identity of the self. It is simply whoever the conservative wants to include on their team.

Viewed through this lens, every decision or statement made by conservatives is entirely rational. There is no requirement to remain internally consistent views. The only consideration for a conservative is “does this benefit me right now?”

Demonizing Biden is best for conservatives because hate is a powerful motivator for voters. Their base does not need reasons to hate the other, regardless of their choices or beliefs.

There is no hypocrisy in conservativism because there is no objective standard or ideology beyond protecting and promoting the self, and the self is whatever conservatives decide exists within the self. The self is good, and the other is bad. Everything else is negotiable.

To someone who is not conservative, this looks like hypocrisy. See: The only Moral Abortion is My Abortion, or The Card Says Moops, or Gun Control for Black Panthers, or My Daughter is a LGBTQ+ so now LGBTQ+ are People, or It isn’t “Drag” when I do it, or But my state deserves FEMA Funding, or Regulate this industry because it is a threat to me, or My sex scandal is a private matter so please respect my privacy, or Election fraud exists and I’ll prove it, or I’m a job creator so please bail me out, or just take literally any conservative talking point and you will find conservatives who are suddenly the exception to their own rule.

That’s the feature of conservativism that is so appealing. It’s like having a personal God that will forgive any transgression as long as you believe and pray for forgiveness. Being part of the self is like a warm blanket, and as long as you agree to maintain the farce, you get to stay under its protection.

This isn’t new information. Conservatives have always existed, under different banners and with different definitions of the self. Trump has laid bare the grift, abusing it past the point of credibility. That’s his hold, that to oust Trump is to abandon the ruse, and conservatives can’t do that. That’s why they will try very hard to make him a member of the Other. They will claim they were duped, that he was a secret Democrat, that he was never one of them. But he was always one of them, even when he was a Democrat.

jjjalljs,

There’s a great quote out on the Internet about how conservatism has one rule: “there are outgroups the law must bind but not protect, and in groups the law must protect but not bind”.

Same ideas as what you were saying.

Another way of looking at it is that conservatives are assholes.

Sovereign_13,

I think the important points from both are salient here. Everything in that quote is true, but it’s important to include that the groups, both in and out, are nebulous and subject to change because they must always exist even as dynamics change.

ubermeisters,

Very, very well said.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

There is no hypocrisy in conservativism because there is no objective standard or ideology beyond protecting and promoting the self, and the self is whatever conservatives decide exists within the self. The self is good, and the other is bad. Everything else is negotiable.

Excellent example of this, in this very thread.

AnotherAttorney,

Neat paragraph, but nah. Biden just sucks. My “self,” as well as the majority of other Americans, can’t afford a house, rent, gas, groceries, or really anything that we used to be able to. Biden is POTUS, so the buck stops with him — just as it did with Trump during the COVID-related issues, which myself and most other Americans blamed him for.

On another note, it’s funny to watch so many people complain about Republicans demonizing Biden, but somehow forget about the froth that was coming out of democratic mouths for Trump’s head.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

Biden just doesn't make you feel good about yourself, and that's all little egotists know how to care about

Jaysyn, (edited )
Jaysyn avatar

The fact that you think those two things are remotely equal only reflects badly upon yourself.

The fact that you think the President controls the world economy just shows that you can safely be ignored when discussing these matters.

The fact that you think that re-electing Trump will magically make any of that vanish just shows that you're not functioning in consensual reality.

The farmers I know, that were actually able to keep their farms, lost millions & are still recovering from his anti-immigration bullshit.

Boosting you own post is pretty pathetic, BTW.

AnotherAttorney,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it. You think you're morally superior to anyone that dares equate Biden and Trump. Neato, have fun not being able to afford bread.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

More delusional strawman. Family of five here. Gas prices have been steadily dropping here for months now & bread is $4 loaf.

Inflation is receding & the fascist adjacent can't stand it.

It's cool how you can't actually refute anything I said though.

AnotherAttorney,

The average price of bread under Trump never exceeded $2.00. You just proved my point, lmfao. Good work my guy.

Also, the average price of gas under Biden still has yet to come down to even the highest annual average under Trump.

Congrats on the money though. Must be nice to be able to afford more than the average American.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

You're proof that if a lie is repeated long enough, people will believe it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/24/politics/fact-check-trump-gas-prices/index.html

AnotherAttorney,

Gas prices when Trump left office were much higher than he now claims.

At least read your own headlines before posting nonresponsive articles. The average price of gas under Biden still has yet to come down to even the highest annual average under Trump.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

Can you tell the class why you think that is?

AnotherAttorney,

Not really. I'm frankly not sure why it is that you post nonresponsive articles. It probably has something to do with cognitive dissonance and rushing to grab whatever you can that will confirm your narrow world view.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

I didn't think so. If you we're actually capable of that much introspection, you'd understand that the foreign powers that support Trump & want him re-elected also have their hand on the flow of oil.

AnotherAttorney,

you'd understand that the foreign powers that support Trump & want him re-elected also have their hand on the flow of oil

Coughs in Keystone XL pipeline, suspended oil and gas leases, and RMP.

Jaysyn, (edited )
Jaysyn avatar

Keystone XL pipeline = Never built. Has no effect on current oil prices. The rest of the pipeline actually exists and covers much of the same area.. I'm sure you'll just make up some imaginary numbers about what could have been though.

Suspended oil and gas leases = Completely irrelevant when they are only using 1/2 of their current permitted leases. Next.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/09/joe-biden/fact-checking-bidens-claim-there-are-9000-unused-o/

RMP = If you're referring to the EPA's Risk Management Program, good. After all, we now know that air pollution & lead exposure creates Conservatives.

Wow you're so bad at this.

AnotherAttorney,

Lmfao, yes a pipeline that was cancelled by Biden was unable to reduce gas prices because it was never built. Congrats for making my point?

Permits are not leases.

The RMP had nothing to do with air pollution or lead exposure lmfao.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

The Risk Management Program (RMP) rule implements Section 112(r) of the 1990 Clean Air Act amendments to improve chemical accident prevention at facilities. The RMP rule requires facilities that use extremely hazardous substances to develop a Risk Management Plan.

Yeah, nothing at all to do with pollutants in the air. I guess you think picking nits is a successful strategy in debate.

You're so bad at this.

AnotherAttorney,

If you still think the Clean Air Act only enables air-based regulations, I have news (and Supreme Court cases) for you friend.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

Picking nits when you're wrong just makes you look silly & desperate.

AnotherAttorney,

I'd hardly call a fundamental misunderstanding about whether or not a regulation promogulated under the CAA is required to be air-based "picking nits," but go off.

muse,
muse avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • AnotherAttorney,

    Trump did that.

    Average MSNBC nonresponse.

    And he lost. And there's nothing you can do about that.

    Except vote him back in lol.

    Maeve,

    I loathe Biden. Loathe. Even I recognize you’r your arguments are really bad. I hope you’re nowhere in my area practicing.

    AnotherAttorney,

    you’r your

    Get a little confused there?

    mrnotoriousman,

    I guarantee you they are only an attorney on the internet based on how they speak and general knowledge of things.

    Maeve,

    Better call Saul.

    donuts,
    donuts avatar

    Can I ask you if you know why the prices of goods are higher today than they were in, say, 2019?

    If you're gonna try to blame Biden for the cost of a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk, then you should at least be able to connect the dots.

    AnotherAttorney,

    Dumping money into foreign wars, failure to solve domestic price fixing, failure to adequately enable American farming, manufacturing, and resource development.

    At the end of the day though, the buck stops with the president. When you run the country, you get blamed or praised for the state of the country. Fix it or get out of office.

    muse,
    muse avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • AnotherAttorney,

    Nah, I win quite a bit.

    donuts,
    donuts avatar

    Economics 101:

    • there are two sides to the economy that drive prices, supply and demand.
    • ~2% inflation is baked into standard monetary policy, and its what every fed chairman for 50 years has aimed for.

    Rock bottom interest rates (and government pandemic handouts to employers under the PPP) during the Trump administration have driven extreme demand for goods and services. At the same time, the Covid 19 pandemic that Trump lied about, downplayed, failed to mitigate and failed to stop, shut down global supply chains, thereby decreasing supply of goods and services.

    Now back to economics 101...

    HIGH demand * LOW supply = ???????

    Thanks for the inflation Trump!

    enable American farming, manufacturing, and resource development.

    It's funny you bring that up, because Biden has been historically great on manufacturing. And US employment rates are at an all time high.

    https://www.axios.com/2023/07/23/south-mountain-west-manufacturing-boom-biden

    https://www.bls.gov/ces/

    Jaysyn,
    Jaysyn avatar

    Crickets....

    🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗

    donuts,
    donuts avatar

    Maybe he's going to look up who first appointed Jay Powell to be the chairman of the federal reserve? 🫠

    muse,
    muse avatar

    I got tired of reading this shit so I'm just going to lay it out for you:

    You live in a false reality and no one can change that. it's tiring to argue with it, and more and more people are going to distance themselves from you until you die alone.

    And no one is going to notice. Nor care. You're going to die alone and no one will miss you.

    All that remains is how long you're going to stick around on this planet until you decide when you leave. Maybe save everyone the time and expedite it.

    AnotherAttorney,

    Ah, the classic "I can't think of a response so go kill yourself" comment. The internet never changes.

    jordanlund, in New felony charges rock Trump world
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    This seemed to be popular information when I posted it (ahem) “elsewhere”. Thought it might be welcome to have here.

    If you’re trying to keep track of where we’re at in the Trump prosecutions:

    Updated 7/27/2023

    January 6th Federal Investigation
    Investigation <- You Are Here
    (Trump has been sent a “Target Letter” indicating he is under investigation and has been given until July 20th, 2023 to appear before the grand jury.)
    Indictment
    Arrest
    Trial
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    Georgia - Election Interference
    Investigation <- You Are Here
    2 new grand juries impaneled 7/11/2023.
    Indictment - July 11th to September 1st.
    (Grand Jury work expected July 31 to Aug. 18)
    Arrest
    Trial
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    New York State - 34 felonies, Stormy Daniels Payoff
    Investigation
    Indictment
    Arrest <- You Are Here
    Trial - March 25th, 2024
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    Florida - 40 felonies, Federal documents charges
    Investigation
    Indictment
    Arrest <- You Are Here
    3 new felonies added 7/27/2023.
    Trial - May 20, 2024
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, have not been announced.

    The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again resulting in a demand for $10 million is not listed as it’s a civil case and not a crimimal one.

    UnsyllabledQuickies,

    Thanks for the summary!

    whatisallthis,

    74 felonies. How big of a health bar does this boss have.

    transientDCer,

    Any of the rest of us would have been in a jumpsuit and jail cell a long ass time ago.

    SCB,

    Wheels of prosecution turn slowly. Normal people wouldn’t be imprisoned yet, either.

    Federal trial dates are typically 12-18 months after indictment in the US.

    PeleSpirit,

    I think what everyone is saying is that the indictments would have happened much sooner.

    SCB,

    That I can definitely agree with

    MrVilliam,

    Us plebs would’ve also been jailed pending trial. Meanwhile, this dipshit is still getting on planes and spreading disinformation with zero accountability. With 70 felony indictments, he’s still one of the most free people in the country.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    If Trump was black, the cops would have killed him by now.

    markr,

    If the left had sacked the capitol, a state of emergency would have been declared, a widespread and indiscriminate arrest and detainment of thousands of people tagged as ‘leftists’ would have occurred, and we would have been under martial law.

    PersnickityPenguin,

    California would have been preemptively nuked.

    imPastaSyndrome,

    Thanks i appreciate the you are heres

    oaklandnative, in Biden video mocking Marjorie Taylor Greene speech hit more than 30M views in 12 hours

    Link to the video for anyone else who struggled to find it hidden in the article:

    twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1681424737384435713?s…

    dismalnow,
    dismalnow avatar
    ElectricTickles,

    Bumping this up for visibility

    saidinmilamber,

    Any non-Twitter alternative?

    spacedancer,
    AbidanYre,

    Those replies remind me why I block Twitter on my router.

    PrincessLeiasCat,

    nitter.net/JoeBiden/status/1681424737384435713?s=…

    oof that was bad…hadn’t been there since Space Karen took the wheel.

    sigmaklimgrindset,

    You know what, maybe I should go back to using Twitter links now that you can’t see the replies anymore…

    theterrasque,

    Reading the replies was a mistake

    Tankaus,

    Ouch… you weren’t kidding. And I knew that, but I did it anyway. Shame on both of us I suppose, lol.

    dragonflyteaparty,

    How in the world could someone’s naked picture be public domain? Just wondering and asking since you mentioned the Twitter comments.

    gmtom,

    Well twitter’s rage bait algorithm pushes the right wing trolls to the top (I saw one guy called colarado"““researcher””" was so butthurt he made like 8 replies posting boomer memes) but if you load in more replies there is tonnes of people making positive comments and are getting a lot of likes.

    EnderWi99in,

    Quite possibly one of the greatest campaign ads I've seen. It's just too perfect.

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s extremely intelligent. Using the other side’s words against them. Not only that, he never said a single word in it. Just actions. In a cinematic context it is a great way to tell a story without having to tell the audience.

    And not a single dig on the other side. Classy.

    PaulDevonUK,
    @PaulDevonUK@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks.

    I hate Twatter so here is an NBC video timestamped to the start. The rest of the show is just Joe talking.

    athelard,

    You are the hero that we don’t deserve. Except for me, I totally deserve you ;)

    BobbyBandwidth,
    @BobbyBandwidth@lemmy.world avatar

    But wait, it goes even deeper

    Here is the yewtu.be link so you don’t have to deal with actual YouTube yewtu.be/f5cAap8pol0?t=70

    AssPennies,

    So that last link just landed me on the search page, and I decided to lookup “poop head”, and this is what I got. I’m not disappointed.

    FlagonOfMe,

    When I click it, it just goes to the homepage.

    typo,

    It did for me, too, so I poked around a bit. If i search for just the YouTube video identifier (don’t know the technical term) it brings up the video on yewtube , so this should work:

    yewtu.be/watch?v=f5cAap8pol0

    (It doesn’t seem to like the time appended to the end)

    derpo,

    That worked! I love all these YouTube alternatives, I’ll crawl through the mud to use them lol

    tsonfeir,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    You mean Xwatter

    Chainweasel, in Does the GOP have a chance in 2024?

    They’ve been busy disenfranchising voters, gerrymandering, removing polling stations, and rigging the system in literally any way they can.
    They not only have a chance, but an advantage. We almost took the Senate and House last cycle but despite record voter turnout, a HUGE number of people still stayed home.
    Thinking for a second that the Left has 2024 in the bag is essentially handing the election to the Right.

    MisterMoo,
    MisterMoo avatar

    Plus the GOP has a lot of people on social media talking about how terrible both sides are and how they’ll just stay home, which is squarely aimed at depressing Democratic turnout.

    Hairyblue,
    Hairyblue avatar

    Yea both sides are not the same. Republicans hurts women, LGBTQ community, minorities, the poor, the middle-class, children, workers and non Christians.

    Vote and stop voting for Republicans.

    TechyDad,
    @TechyDad@lemmy.world avatar

    Exactly. We all saw how “Hillary has this locked up, there’s no way Trump wins” worked out in 2016. Even if the Democrats are leading by a landslide in every poll leading up to election day, we should still act as though it’s a 50-50 race with every vote potentially tipping it one way or the other.

    Conyak, in McConnell warns Democrat majority to back off subpoenas that attempt to prove corruption in the supreme Court.

    Or what? Is that supposed to be a threat? Seems to me that if a Republican is warning you not to investigate something then it definitely needs investigating.

    NounsAndWords,

    Or hell be forced to stand completely still and silent while definitely not having a seizure.

    SpaceNoodle,

    No, those were strokes, not seizures.

    AkaBobHoward,
    @AkaBobHoward@lemmy.world avatar

    But, but, but… dehydration 🙄

    SpaceNoodle,

    Yeah, all his blood dried up into clots.

    hydrospanner,

    We call it “blood” but it’s really just tar.

    SpaceNoodle,

    You call it “tar” but it’s really that alien from TNG episode Skin of Evil.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Is that supposed to be a threat?

    “You won’t like me if I get… uncivil” is the most Senate threat in the book.

    Nevermind that we’ve got sitting Senators who have body-slammed journalists in recent memory.

    themeatbridge,

    I think he’s implying that exposing the corruption will bring to light corrupt Democrats as well.

    Which is such a fucking typical conservative concept, as though the party should defend the corruption within by ignoring corruption everywhere. Jokes on you, motherfucker, because we want to expose and eliminate corruption among Democrats and Republicans.

    Hairyblue, (edited )
    Hairyblue avatar

    This. Democrats are not in a cult. Punish everyone who is doing crimes.

    Spaghetti_Hitchens,

    Can you imagine a congress and SCOTUS that actually acts in the interest of the people?

    remus989,

    I literally cannot fathom this.

    Bakkoda,

    I’m 40 so no, not even remotely.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Democrats are not on a cult.

    “Vote Blue No Matter Who” *is textbook cultish behavior and has lead to some truly awful candidacies.

    The post-Obama turn from casual social liberalism to BlueAnon party jingoism has been absolutely miserable for intra-party Democratic politics. The influx of Bill Kristol / Michael Bloomberg / Lincoln Project anti-Trump Republicans is a poison pill that’s going to do the same damage to the Dems that it did to the GOP under Bush.

    I’m already seeing all the toxicity and nastiness in local Dem organizing meetings that I remember my parents complaining about as liberal Republicans during the 2000-era turn.

    SCB,

    The post-Obama turn from casual social liberalism to BlueAnon party jingoism has been absolutely miserable for intra-party Democratic politics. The influx of Bill Kristol / Michael Bloomberg / Lincoln Project anti-Trump Republicans is a poison pill that’s going to do the same damage to the Dems that it did to the GOP under Bush.

    This may top Mitch’s response as the dumbest take im going to read today

    DemBoSain,
    @DemBoSain@midwest.social avatar

    There’s a big difference between “always vote for the Democrat” and “always vote for Trump”.

    The only reason I voted blue last time around was because my third-party vote wasn’t anti-Trump enough in 2016. And I will continue voting blue until Republicans understand what Americans truly want from their politicians, and act accordingly. I will probably be voting blue for the rest of my life, but will be pleasantly surprised if there comes a time when I don’t have to.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    There’s a big difference between “always vote for the Democrat” and “always vote for Trump”.

    A big chunk of the Trump electorate has been increasingly radicalized Republicans. Folks who genuinely believe Democrats are Satanic. The Trump movement works by tapping into this cohort and feeding on their intense anxiety.

    Democrats are getting a similar treatment, particularly as old GOP staffers change parties.

    I will continue voting blue until Republicans understand what Americans truly want from their politicians

    Doggedly putting up candidates like Kristen Sinema, Eric Adams, and Dianne Feinstein to high office won’t compel Republicans to change.

    One routinely sides with her conservative friends and calls it bipartisan, another feeds off blue lives matter jingoism and fuels the hysteria, and the third is too senile to present any kind of strategic opposition even presuming her politics don’t suck.

    There’s no future for progressive politics in a party that can win as Republican Lite.

    teuast,

    i agree with some of what you said but i do have to mention that dianne feinstein has been dead for over a month

    danc4498,

    And the republicans will find something minor and insignificant about a democrat and make a massive deal about it as though they are equivalent issues.

    Like Biden’s classified document issue compared to Trumps. Then they say, “See? Both sides are basically the same”.

    Maeve,

    Tbf, some Democrats don’t want it exposed, nor will resign when they are exposed. Some will run to their yacht to hide from angry constituents and not face intraparty opposition.

    Kbobabob,

    This got me curious if there were actually any recent cases of this…

    blipcast,

    Bob Menendez

    spaceghoti,
    @spaceghoti@lemmy.one avatar

    Also: Joe Manchin.

    Heresy_generator, in Rand Paul Calls Ukraine a ‘Corrupt Regime’ as Zelensky Visits Capitol Hill
    Heresy_generator avatar

    “I note the senator from Kentucky leaving the floor without justification or any rationale for the action he has just taken. That is really remarkable -- that a senator blocking a treaty that is supported by the overwhelming number, perhaps 98 at least of his colleagues, would come to the floor and object and walk away…The only conclusion you can draw when he walks away is he has no argument to be made.

    He has no justification for his objection to having a small nation be part of NATO that is under assault from the Russians. So, I repeat again, the senator from Kentucky is now working for Vladimir Putin.”

    ~ Sen. John McCain calling Rand Paul out for what he is in 2017

    Binthinkin,

    You better stop that! Rand Paul didn’t go to Moscow to meet his handlers on July 4th, 2018 to hand deliver a message from Trump!

    ReluctantMuskrat,

    Not on July 4th like the other Republicans, but it was later that Summer.

    thesprongler,

    Was McCain the last decent Republican? I didn’t agree with any of his politics but at least he was a decent enough man.

    K1nsey6,
    @K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

    Him, Kerry, and Nuland were the ones that set the stage for Ukraine to get invaded, so no he wasn’t decent.

    ikidd,
    @ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

    He pulled plenty of his own questionable shit. He was a Republican, after all.

    Eldritch,

    He wasn’t really decent. But he sadly was the gold standard for most of the last 20 years at least. And even then he helped bring about the plague of spiteful stupid that is Palin trump et all. You can say a ton of bad things about John McCain. But somehow Republicans at large still manage to be so, so much worse.

    Kimano,

    I think what it comes down to for me personally about McCain is that even though I disagreed with a lot of his politics, I do genuinely believe he cared about the country and the people in it, and generally speaking he did what he honestly thought was best for them.

    We can criticize the relative purity of every politician until we’re blue in the face, but honestly the one overriding characteristic I think it’s fair to demand of every elected official is that they’re honestly working in good faith for the betterment of the country. As long as that’s true I have no deep-seated issue with them.

    spaceghoti,
    @spaceghoti@lemmy.one avatar

    Was McCain the last decent Republican?

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

    No.

    Kimano,

    Senators Glenn and McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised “poor judgment”.

    Keating and DeConcini were asking McCain to travel to San Francisco to meet with regulators regarding Lincoln Savings; McCain refused.[7][11] DeConcini told Keating that McCain was nervous about interfering.[7] Keating called McCain a “wimp” behind his back, and on March 24, Keating and McCain had a heated, contentious meeting.[11]

    The regulators then revealed that Lincoln was under criminal investigation on a variety of serious charges, at which point McCain severed all relations with Keating.[7]

    I’m all for shitting on McCain for some of the questionable takes he’s had in his life, but I don’t think this is the obvious “he’s corrupt” politician mic drop you think it is.

    spaceghoti,
    @spaceghoti@lemmy.one avatar

    Yeah, I don’t believe McCain didn’t know what he was getting into. They gave him a slap on the wrist and told him not to do it again, even though he was clearly involved. For anyone less wealthy or connected, they would have been convicted as an accessory at the very least.

    Kimano,

    I dunno that seems pretty prejudicial. It’s literally the job of politicians to listen to their constituents and advocate for them. Obviously there’s a problem of unequal access and representation, but I’m not sure anything he did here is particularly outside that mold, certainly not criminal. Can you actually point to something concrete that he did that you think is criminal?

    spaceghoti,
    @spaceghoti@lemmy.one avatar

    Acting as a messenger and promoting foreign interests over the welfare of the nation and his constituents is acceptable to you? Good to know.

    Bridger,

    az resident here. McCain was a mixed bag. he was deeply racist against native Americans.

    Spacebar, (edited ) in Ex-Twitter leader Jack Dorsey endorses RFK Jr. for president
    @Spacebar@lemmy.world avatar

    How is Dorsey’s opinion supposed to matter to me?

    Business leaders have nothing in common with the rest of us, so why should we trust them to have our best interests in mind? Athletes, famous musicians, business leaders, celebrities all have one thing in common - money. They have much more of it than the vast majority of people and they generally want more of it.

    Jack Dorsey doesn’t want Democrats in power because they might “take his money”, so he’s promoting a fringe candidate to be a spoiler to Biden.

    Pisodeuorrior,

    Why do you think billionaires have nothing in common with the rest of us? Just because they think a banana costs, like, twenty dollars?

    aeternum,

    to be fair, that wasn't far from the truth only a few years ago. Bananas skyrocketed in price.

    SirNuke,
    SirNuke avatar

    It doesn't, and I doubt anyone reading this would agree.

    But if you believe billionaires shouldn't have so much more influence, it's not a bad idea to emphasis the frequent moronic, out of touch decisions like this. At least Andrew Yang was an honest candidate.

    yaomtc, in Elon Musk supports eliminating voting rights for people without children

    He's not a politician and has shown no interest in being one, so why are people talking about this? So tired of seeing his face all over Lemmy/KBin

    Rayspekt,

    Just let me defederate from Elon.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You don’t need to be one when you can buy them.

    GreatBigJerk,
    GreatBigJerk avatar

    Because billionaires influence politics... Unfortunately.

    fiat_lux,

    Owning a significant component of public discourse and actively pushing ideological viewpoints using it is politics. The only difference between that and being a politician is that you can't vote him out.

    When you own more than most people alive collectively, it makes sense that your actions are under extra scrutiny.

    hardypart,
    @hardypart@feddit.de avatar

    Owning a significant component of public discourse and actively pushing ideological viewpoints using it is politics. The only difference between that and being a politician is that you can’t vote him out.

    This is more correct than I'd like to admit, fuck.

    artisanrox,
    artisanrox avatar

    When he wants to take away my voting rights because I dont' have any kids, he's talking politics. Have you never seen a person able to buy a Congressman who doesn't like your existence???

    IHeartBadCode, in RFK Jr. Confronted With Brutal List of Conspiracy Theories He Has Pushed In Devastating Interview Moment
    IHeartBadCode avatar

    Kennedy defended the article insisting no one has shown “one mistake” he made in the article

    That's not how fact works. I can make some statement but that statement doesn't pass into "fact" just because no one has yet to provide a list of where I got it wrong. One is required to provide evidence to establish fact.

    Here's an excerpt from RFK's paper.

    But instead of taking immediate steps to alert the public and rid the vaccine supply of thimerosal

    And here's the deal. Thimerosal is a preservative in vaccines. It's used to keep bacteria from growing in vaccines. However, the US goes through so much so quickly in terms of those vaccines that they give you at birth, that we just simply do not need to add a preservative in them. So the claim here is just baseless to begin with. The preservative just simply is not present in childhood vaccines. Where you will likely find it, is in vaccines that need to be shelf stable for long periods of time. Such as things like the flu vaccine. And absolutely NOT the COVID vaccine that needs refrigeration. There's literally no need for a preservative there because we keep it cool.

    The component that likely triggers fears is the breakdown of Thimerosal into Ethylmercury C₂H₅Mg⁺ which has been shown to be toxic and indeed Thimerosal does indeed get eventually processed into this compound. However, the body DOES indeed expel ethylmercury in three to seven days. So, NO, it does not stay inside your body. We have thousands of studies that indicate this.

    What one might have heard is something called methylmercury, which is very bad for humans but there is no means chemically to convert thimerosal into methylmercury in vivo. We've done studies on that too.

    So with that said, does the ethylmercury in vaccines raise a cause for concern? Absolutely not. The amount required to keep a vaccine fresh is orders of magnitude smaller than what you'll likely find in your everyday food, especially fish. You will likely get thousands of times more ethylmercury in a single can of tuna than you will in a single childhood vaccine. So if vaccines prose a problem for a person, literally ALL FOOD on the planet Earth poses a much higher risk by massive values. And this is the thing that RFK's paper completely avoids if you ignore the inaccuracies of the chemical composition of childhood vaccines that he routinely makes.

    So:

    • One, childhood vaccines DO NOT have the chemical that is routinely cited as the cause for autism.
    • Two, the chemical that is routinely cited is found in the vast majority of food being ingested.
    • Three, no person has put forward a model that accurately presents a lab repeatable process by which this chemical would cause such a condition.
    • Four, evidence suggests that autism is a genetic disorder and is indeed NOT an environmental disease.
    • And five, and most importantly, the vast majority of "doctors" hocking the vaccine-autism connection are doing so for finical gains, so literally they're just wanting to use people's ignorance for monetary gain.

    RFK is no different in this regards. This paper was a precursor to his book (which I will not link here, but you can easily find it) and he commonly thumps his paper as a commercial for his book. And some might point to pharmaceuticals as just big "ad machines" and the difference is that the claims made in drug ads is peer reviewed. The claims in RFK's book are backed up by: The College of Shit Mr. Kennedy Just Pulled Out His Ass™. I fail to understand how the same people that fear "big pharma" trying to fleece the public is also the same people who gladly get fleeced by people who are distinctly "not doctors". I grant anyone that the way modern medicine is marketed is shitty. That is less a problem with science and more a problem with capitalism, but that is as far as I will open that Pandora's box. So if anyone has beef with medicine, it's likely you have more an issue with something distinctly NOT SCIENCE.

    The only thing that has been proven that vaccines cause is less dead children. There are too many studies with millions of points of evidence that back this unifying claim up, for alternatives claiming the opposite to even remotely hold a candle to. Simple fact, childhood vaccines save lives and the vast ocean of evidence backing that claim up is overwhelming in comparison to the paltry offering of anecdotal conjecture offered by the opposition.

    dub,

    Nothing to add here but anyone who needs to read this comment, will not.

    wrath-sedan,
    wrath-sedan avatar

    I remember watching a lecture from a microbiology professor dispelling common health-related myths. I believe it was polio he was describing and how after the vaccine was developed it went from killing one in every thousand children to causing “severe reactions” (but not necessarily killing) 2 in every MILLION. There was an antivaxxer in the audience who kept repeating “but how do we know children are better off if we are vaccinating all of them now? What if they could live happier healthier lives without it??” And the prof was just like we DO know what happens, literally 1000x more children will die. Wild stuff.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Very well said. And one small addition- you get more mercury (methyl, but irrelevant to my point) in a can of tuna than you do in multiple vaccines. I don’t hear anti-vaxxers raging against tuna.

    MisterThePlague, (edited )

    To broaden this beyond “income level 4” (I’m using Hans Rosling’s categorization system instead of First, second, third world), banning thimerosal has a huge impact on worldwide vaccination efforts. It’s cheaper to supply multidose vials to lower income level places for numerous reasons, the major of which are: less packaging, and less infrastructure (refrigeration) required.

    So it’s not even a matter of “well if ‘we’ (read: those in the US, Europe, etc) don’t really use/need it, why not just ban it anyways, just in case?” This is a common rebuttal to what you posted about the US not needing it due to the accessibility of refrigeration and speed with which vaccines are used, so it’s very important to remind people they are not the only people on Earth. “We” aren’t the only ones to consider. It’s very difficult for people to grok the worldwide impact of selfish, fear-based, seemingly small decisions, but this is why people who want to rid the world of vaccine-preventable infections are so frustrated with the antivax conspiracies. It’s not just an individual parent and their child in isolation. We live in a society. They are making decisions that impact everyone, and that’s not hyperbole.

    All that being said, it DOES have an impact on the level 4 countries that ban it in childhood vaccines. It makes them more expensive because they’re single dose. Someone is ultimately paying that cost, be it taxpayers, insured folks, or private individuals.

    A source: web.archive.org/…/experts-say-thimerosal-ban-woul…

    And from WHO:

    WHO policy is clear on this issue, and the Organization continues to recommend the use of vaccines containing thiomersal for global immunization programmes because the benefits of using such products far outweigh any theoretical risk of toxicity.

    www.who.int/teams/…/thiomersal

    ETA: thiomersal is a synonym. Same stuff.

    Kleinbonum,

    Kennedy defended the article insisting no one has shown “one mistake” he made in the article

    That’s not how fact works. can make some statement but that statement doesn’t pass into “fact” just because no one has yet to provide a list of where got it wrong.

    Yeah, this is just Russell’s teapot:

    If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

    The burden of proof lies with the person making the outrageous claims - in this case with conspiracy theorist RFK Jr.

    The burden of proof is not on other people to disprove whatever outrageous conspiracies a conspiracy nut job comes up with.

    Nightwingdragon, in Wisconsin Supreme Court chief justice accuses liberal majority of staging a 'coup'

    The whole point of things like this is to dilute the impact of the words being used. This way, when they get caught doing the exact same thing, it won’t seem “bad” in the eyes of their constituents.

    It’s one of the reasons the GOP are pushing so hard to impeach Biden. So when people say that Trump was impeached twice, the MAGA crowd can just say “Yeah, so was Biden. So was Clinton. Presidents get impeached all the time. They never get removed. It’s all for political show anyway, it’s no big deal. The next guy will probably get impeached too.”

    It’s why GOP politicians are trying to frame even minor incidents of protest as “insurrections” or “coups”. They know it sounds ridiculous. That’s the whole point. If you water down words like “insurrection”, “coup”, “sedition”, and “treason”, then the MAGA crowd can just say “January 6th wasn’t an insurrection. The country is still here. Quit calling every protest an insurrection. We’re not in the 1780s any more.”

    Same thing with the RICO charges. Why do you think Miller and MTG were tweeting “RICO?”. Charge everybody with RICO charges and Trump being charged no longer seems like a big deal.

    It’s a long term strategy. Make the idea of being charged with crimes just a normal part of the political process, and make everybody think it’s not that bad. That way, when they’re caught engaging in the corrupt acts they routinely accuse others of engaging in, it’ll be considered “normal” and “no big deal”, and make it almost impossible to remove them.

    AllonzeeLV,

    Boil the frog.

    Just like we did with crony capitalist economy. It’s ok because it’s just the norm for those with capital to fuck over those without. No pitchforks required.

    VentraSqwal,

    It’s a very insidious way to make the country more like Russia, where there’s so much propaganda there is no objective truth, words have no meaning, and rule of law of even more nebulous.

    Igloojoe,

    Well quite a few republican politicians in the pocket of Russia. Would make sense they learn their strategies.

    babyphatman,

    Hypernormalization. Adam Curtis spoke about this in his documentary.

    VentraSqwal,

    I have to watch that. Although it sounds like not a very happy watch when I’m already on edge all the time from current news.

    Bakkoda,

    Firehose of propaganda is one of the main weapons discussed in Foundation of Geopolitics.

    carl_dungeon,

    It was just a little “light” treason!

    HoustonHenry,

    “It wasn’t” -Ron Howard

    Zombiepirate, (edited )
    @Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

    I offer as proof of your claim how Nunes kept calling things “drug deals” during the first impeachment because there was testimony that John Bolton and his moustache said he wasn’t going to be a part of the “drug deal” being cooked up in Ukraine (referring to the scheme to blackmail Zelenskyy).

    jordanlund, in Mega Thread - Donald Trump Pleads Not Guilty to Conspiring to Defraud the United States in Arraignment - Washington DC
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    This seemed to be popular information when I posted it (ahem) “elsewhere”. Thought it might be welcome to have here.

    If you’re trying to keep track of where we’re at in the Trump prosecutions:

    Updated 8/1/2023

    Washington, D.C. - 4 felonies, January 6th Election Interference
    Investigation
    Indictment <- You Are Here
    Arrest
    Trial
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    Georgia - Election Interference
    Investigation <- You Are Here
    2 new grand juries impaneled 7/11/2023.
    Indictment - July 11th to September 1st.
    (Grand Jury work expected July 31 to Aug. 18)
    Arrest
    Trial
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    New York State - 34 felonies, Stormy Daniels Payoff
    Investigation
    Indictment
    Arrest <- You Are Here
    Trial - March 25th, 2024
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    Florida - 40 felonies, Federal documents charges
    Investigation
    Indictment
    Original indictment was for 37 felonies.
    3 new felonies were added on July 27, 2023.
    Arrest <- You Are Here
    Trial - May 20, 2024
    Conviction
    Sentencing

    Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, have not been announced.

    The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again resulting in a demand for $10 million is not listed as it’s a civil case and not a crimimal one.

    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s more than kind of insane when you put it all together like that

    mindbleach,

    And there are no mysteries here. We know he did it. We saw him do it, in some cases. We have known for years about the fake-elector scheme. We’ve all seen photos of the documents at Mar-a-Lago. We’ve heard him, on tape, begging for state officials to betray our democracy.

    If the law is allowed to matter, these people are simply fucked.

    If.

    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Yup. But the law doesn’t matter, and we’re all fucked for it.

    I’ll happily be wrong here, but I don’t think I will be

    gmtom,

    Wow, the trials are roughly a year after the indictment/arrest? Is that normal in America or is it so long due to the special circumstances?

    Are they just waiting for an availability in the court or is it to allow enough time for the lawyers to go through processes and do their job?

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Yeah, it can take a while to come to trial.

    Look at this psycho who just got sentenced in Idaho for killing her kids and a couple other people:

    …wikipedia.org/…/Murders_of_Tylee_Ryan_and_J.

    Murders were in 2019, bodies were found in 2020. She was charged with the crimes May 25, 2021.

    The trial started April 10, 2023. 2 years after being charged.

    spacedancer,

    This is a great timeline format! Thanks!

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    I try to keep it from most imminent to farther out. Georgia will jump to the top if something happens there, and the D.C. one will get updated when there’s an arrest date.

    LeFantome,

    Georgia may the most important trial. He cannot be federally pardoned for it and so a conviction in Georgia puts him in jail for real ( though I am not sure if Kemp can pardon him ).

    The New York trial is the same but it is too easy to spin that trial as a witch hunt. If that is the only reason he is convicted, America is in for a bad time.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Georgia is more dangerous. The legislature there passed a law, which Kemp signed, allowing for the removal of a DA under certain circumstances.

    The leading theory is that as soon as she brings charges, she’ll be removed.

    apnews.com/…/georgia-prosecutor-district-attorney…

    mateomaui,

    LOL, I was waiting for this update!

    Neato,
    Neato avatar

    Those 2 trial dates are so far in the future. He needs to be convicted and barred from holding office before the next Presidential election.

    Though I do wonder at the chaos if he's convicted around June-July 2024. Only 3-4 months before the election. Is that enough time for Republicans to pivot to a new deplorable?

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Even if he were convicted on all the charges we have so far, technically, none of them would bar him from office.

    He could be blocked from being sworn in by, you know, being in prison, I guess. But the convictions themselves would not be blockers.

    What we need is a Constitutional Amendment that bars convicted felons from higher office, and while we’re at it, maybe add an age cap as well. Nobody over 70 for President, Congress, Senate, or Supreme Court.

    mateomaui,

    It’s insane to think that he could be convicted of all charges, but possibly the only thing that actually sends him to (or keeps him in) prison is losing the election and his shield to hide behind.

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    I think the thought is that most middle of the roads won’t ever consider a criminal. There are some hardcores that won’t ever flip. It’s about gripping those on the teeter side of the triangle.

    mateomaui,

    I don’t think his chances of winning are all that good even if he had zero indictments, but let’s hope they do push him out of the running with reasonable people.

    sin_free_for_00_days,

    He’s polling pretty even with Biden at the moment. This country’s voters disgust me.

    eestileib,

    The election isn’t for 16 months, waaaay too early to take polls seriously.

    mateomaui,

    The last elections had the poll analysts throwing their hands up in the air, so I am hoping those results are heavily skewed in some way and trying not to think about it.

    WillyWonksters,

    What we need is a Constitutional Amendment that bars convicted felons from higher office

    This would be dangerous, allowing inconvenient politicians to be excluded from office through framing or selective enforcement of the law.

    What we really need is a population capable of making better decisions.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Oh, no doubt about that, but which is more likely? :)

    DogMuffins,

    100% agreed. This is exactly what happened in Burma if I recall correctly. Democratically elected president removed from office as a result of criminal accusations - her crime was attending a gathering in contravention of covid restrictions IIRC.

    lolcatnip,

    What we really need is a population capable of making better decisions.

    Where do you propose to get one of those, and what will you do with the existing population?

    Phlogiston,

    If we make them felons they can’t vote. We could also do things like scapegoat them and find ways to disenfranchise them.

    (The Rs have a whole history of this sorta shit. I wonder if half the reason they’ve been so bad lately is that they worry those tactics will get used against them. )

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    This is such a great comment imo.

    Ets a shlippry shlope thar bod.

    squiblet,
    squiblet avatar

    Sure, their entire lives are endless projection: “what if other people can treat us like complete shit, like we do to them?”

    LeadSoldier,

    Educate them! As much as possible. That’s being undermined now too.

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    The education need right now is almost beyond our reach. Weve been needing it. Itd need to be grass roots fucking re education. Some media does it, music, etc. But the younger kids need critical thinking skills most of all, and learning mindfulness, self acceptance. Like classes in real fundamental life shit that they’re not getting. I don’t know how much school has changed since my days. So I dunno. But tampering w schools with the books, that’s just…the term fascist is spot on. DeSantis is dangerous. Someone will see him and even springboard off him deeper down the right wing rabbit hole as a politician.

    _CottonCandyUnicorn_,

    Serious question because I don’t fully understand the judicial process and what not. Why are the trials so far in the future?

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Perfectly good question…

    There are a lot of different confounding factors when you set a trial date. As much as we’d like, Trump isn’t the only trial happening, so other cases have to come first.

    There has also been a really big backlog on trials. Covid slowed EVERYTHING down. Here in Oregon it’s so backed up, there’s a class action lawsuit.

    koin.com/…/suit-claims-oregonians-denied-constitu…

    I can’t imagine how bad it must be in New York.

    The Florida trial has extra issues. The number of top secret documents means having lawyers with top secret clearances, you also have two extra defendants who have to find their own Florida based lawyers.

    All the added time is to make sure the defendant gets a fair trial.

    corsicanguppy,

    Here in Oregon it’s so backed up, there’s a class action lawsuit.

    A notorious gun-runner from Eastern Canada won his freedom when his trial was taking too long. He sued on a “put up or shut up” play because we have a right to a speedy trial, and since the Crown didn’t think it could build a good case in time (a fast shredder ate the evidence?) it had to release the guy and void the charges.

    lolcatnip,

    You’d think they’d rearrange their schedule some to deal with the guy who’s a major national security risk.

    Phlogiston,

    He has a right to a speedy trail but it’s in his political interests to delay things. So in addition to all the good reasons this will take a while (like all the extra work to deal with how classified material will be used during the trail) Trump and his team will also be doing everything they can to delay things.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    I read in another article that the D.C. courts have another 800 cases just for the 1/6 rioters, that doesn’t even count “normal” D.C. crime… so there are only so many days on the calendar.

    DogMuffins,

    I feel the same way, but then any special arrangements (like rushing to trial) provide fodder for an appeal.

    Really you want the legal proceedings to be extra measured and methodical.

    I guess this means that yes we’re headed for a situation where a GOP president can pardon Trump, but that’s really a separate issue that needs to be tested by the law and by democracy.

    LeFantome,

    Very worried that Trump will pardon Trump. He cannot pardon himself for the stuff in Nee York or Georgia though.

    Politically, it is too bad the Stormy Daniels one comes first. He could be defending the federal charges from jail just before the election. The “porn star stuff” may not be strong enough to justify that to some people. It is going to be easy to position him as a victim of a politically motivated witch hunt.

    DogMuffins,

    I don’t think the populace has much appetite for revolt, but surely if these criminal proceedings are derailed in any way due to the perpetrator being the president that’s a democratic crisis.

    I mean some of the charges he’s facing involve election fraud, and the perp is just going to pardon themself? What is the point of democracy if you can have yourself fraudulently appointed president and then become immune to prosecution because you are indeed president.

    Even in his first term there was the investigation into interference, which was ultimately discarded because you can’t prosecute or investigate a sitting president.

    eran_morad,

    this shit is gold. Thanks bruh.

    ech,

    This is very helpful. Thank you!

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    It’s why I do it! :)

    somePotato, in Did Trump let Americans die purely for political purposes?

    No, he didn’t “let people die”.

    He actively contributed to those deaths.

    Right wing media spent the entire pandemic fighting against distancing, masks, vaccines, against science. And pretending horse dewormer was a miracle solution for everything. But it turns out reality isn’t a political opinion, and millions of people died because of those lies.

    When humanity was fighting against covid, Republicans were fighting on the virus’ side

    Mordacius,

    Wish I could boost this more than once.

    grabyourmotherskeys,

    But at the very beginning, there was one moment where they said we didn’t need masks, so all of your points are refuted! /s