So, let's get this straight. Elon Musk decided he had the authority to cause a strategic Ukrainian military offensive operation to fail. An attack presumably coordinated with the US. And Elon Musk shut down communications once the operation was already in motion resulting in a Ukrainian defeat. Ukraine is now in the position that military actions are subject to Elon Musk’s approval. Let that sink in.
"Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet...”
"As Ukrainian submarine drones strapped with explosives approached the Russian fleet, they “lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly,” Isaacson writes."
@failedLyndonLaRouchite
My Dude.
BaE, Northrup, Boeing, and a long long list of vendors provide services to the DoD, and to the militaries of friendly countries, and almost all involve data comms of some kind - whether that be between an F-16 and a missile it launched, or a radio set that a company commander uses to call in a fire request, or a cruise missile etc.
NONE of those vendors reserve the right to decide whether that data comms is to their liking before sending
uh, isn't that a contractual thing, when the Pentagon buys from BaE, then BaE agrees in the contract what it will or won't do ?
also, as I am sure you know, when the US sells or transfers military equipment to other countries, the US routinely states what those countries can or cannot do ?
@failedLyndonLaRouchite@mloxton You are equating contractual diplomatic relations between nation states with the capricious actions of one individual. The comparison is invalid.
@failedLyndonLaRouchite
Not everything is specified.
The Pentagon would not likely have thought it necessary to tell BaE not to mess with comms during an operation. They will specify performance levels, uptime, data rates, error handling, etc, but not say btw, you mustn't shut off comms during flight
Yes, the US specifies a lot about resale, redirection, and use of equipment, but would not mess with a UK telemetry with a rocket fired from a fighter they bought from the US
@failedLyndonLaRouchite@mloxton Thank you for the link. Seems to just make it worse. Seems like the attack he sabotaged could had been a real game changer in the war. The hubris to insert himself at the last minute and cause it to fail is astounding.
@failedLyndonLaRouchite Did read the piece. Do not agree with your position that furnishing equipment to a country at war gives you veto authority over it's use, particularly in ongoing life and death operations.
Also, please do not post the same comment repeatedly in this thread.
Every cruise missile launched, every 155mm artillery shell fired, every missile launched from an aircraft, every smart round delivered, every order sent to a unit, ... ALL use data comms that are provided to DoD using a vendors products or infrastructure.
It is how it works, and it is unheard of that a vendor inserted themselves in an operational situation and simply denied service. This is NOT a normal behavior
@mloxton@mastodonmigration
stipulating to what you say, given what is known about Elon Musk, expecting normal behaviour seems like a bit of afail
I suspect what is going on here is that the drones are much cheaper then inertial guidance rockets, so this was cheap and easy way for Ukr to do something
@misterprickles appropos of our discussion yesterday, to day NPR reports that Musk denies ever allowing use of starlink in the 1st place, which if true make our whole discussion pretty peak social media
@failedLyndonLaRouchite@misterprickles Please stop posting the same comment all over the thread. Appreciate your contributions, but this kind of spamming will get you blocked.
appropos of our discussion yesterday, to day NPR reports that Musk denies ever allowing use of starlink in the 1st place, which if true make our whole discussion pretty peak social media
@failedLyndonLaRouchite@gwalms@mastodonmigration newer BBC reporting quotes musk as saying that it was never previously enabled for that area and that he “just” denied the Ukrainians request to switch it on. I guess it’s “not as” bad as the original reporting, but the ability to block Ukraines fightback against an invading aggressor, should be taken out of his hands.
Isaacson: "[Musk] personally took charge of the situation... So he secretly told his engineers to TURN OFF coverage within 100 kilometers of the Crimean coast..."
Either Walter Isaacson is lying or Elon Musk is lying.
@mastodonmigration@Craktok@failedLyndonLaRouchite@gwalms Elon is familiar with lying. He is not that well acquainted with truth. I personally don’t believe what he has to say. Perhaps he may believe in gravity. But other than that, I certainly don’t know.
@marian@mastodonmigration I have run out of things to say to try to convince them to switch. My only tactic left is to get as many people in general here as possible and then they will follow.
Oil oligarchs in OPEC, Russia, UK, and America etc. should be charged with crimes against humanity for their climate denial malign influence campaigns.
@mastodonmigration There’s got to be some FCC regulation that Musk has violated with that action.
Penalties for that are not enough: I’m going for support of an enemy of the US/NATO in a military activity, treason?
When will media challenge the US government and institutions to cut all ties to the proven security risk to the US and enemy of democracy that is Melon Husk?
@mastodonmigration Honestly, Ukraine should just Declare war on Elon Musk himself, just like how the UK Declared war on Napoleon Bonaparte himself near the end of the Napoleonic Wars
Not really sure what you’re calling a conspiracy theory: the claim that Musk “secretly told his engineers to turn off coverage within 100km of the Crimean coast”, as reported by WaPo, or the claim that Musk has the power to affect Ukraine’s military efficacy?
"Throughout the evening and into the night, he personally took charge of the situation. Allowing the use of Starlink for the attack, he concluded, could be a disaster for the world. So he secretly told his engineers to turn off coverage within 100 kilometers of the Crimean coast. As a result, when the Ukrainian drone subs got near the Russian fleet in Sevastopol, they lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly."
"He had just spoken to the Russian ambassador to the United States. (In later conversations with a few other people, he seemed to imply that he had spoken directly to President Vladimir Putin, but to me he said his communications had gone through the ambassador.)... Musk explained to me in great detail, as I stood behind the bleachers, the Russian laws and doctrines that decreed such a response."
@mastodonmigration ever wonder if Musk and his ilk are playing both sides of this conflict? He/they don't want either Ukraine or Russia to win, but they want to keep this war going as long as possible.
This guy decided to harm Ukraine under invasion by a fascist invader.
This guy told the President of a country who had just fought back to restore democracy, that they werent safe, because he would coup whoever he wants to.
This guy fills the social site he $eized with nazis, racists.
This guy who put twitter in the xitter is _suing the 110 year old jewish anti defamation league, ADL.
@mastodonmigration Ukraine gave up all its nuclear weapons in the past because Russia promised to respect Ukraine's independence (a vow that Putin has broken). Musk is on team Putin. Some people might say that he is a traitor to the country that he came to as an immigrant and where he has made a lot money.
@mastodonmigration I'm not defending fElon but if it is within his power to stop others from using tech his company made to kill people then he should stop it. He shouldn't be taking sides.
@Mumakil Sympathetic to your perspective, but would suggest that war is complex. Ukraine is fighting for its existence, and atrocities are being committed against its people almost daily. Certainly #Ukraine has the perspective that by achieving victory over the Russian invaders they will be saving many lives. Presumably the drone submarine targets were military targets. Not that this means no lives would be lost in the attack, but needs to be balanced against genocide of the Ukrainian people.
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