@benroyce Everyone's job is important and part of the whole. Work together with respect for that understanding. And, let me add, support each other with that understanding.
@benroyce I agree. The disparity between the salary of a CEO and an employee is ridiculous and indefensible in any scenario. And, yep. Any full time job should be able to support a person/persons. The fact that WE PAY part of the salaries of the employees of megacorps like Walmart makes me totally fucking livid. The nerve of these fuckers kills me. They pay people shit salaries that we subsidize! It's so fucked up I'm having a hard time finding the words.
"Ben & Jerry's once, admirably, had a 5 to 1 rule limiting the pay of its CEO -- $81,000 -- to the company's lowest paid worker. It required the CEO to raise the pay of his employees to create a pay raise for himself. Ben & Jerry's abandoned that rule in 1994 when the company couldn't find anyone to replace Ben Cohen upon his retirement...
@sidereal@benroyce@StillIRise1963
That's a lot of hassle and responsibility for that amount of money ((B&J's) You have a lot of hours and a lot of stress. You have gone to school for a long time and built up skills. You sure don't need a multimillion dollar package, but I think the person who is scooping ice cream and won't have to deal with late night calls or taking home work. . .
TBC Not endorsing silly CEO pay
@asbestos Break up the job. There have always been CEOs, but this type of disparity has not always existed. It's total fucking greed gone insane. @sidereal@benroyce
@StillIRise1963@asbestos@benroyce Yup. As a CEO, if your hours are too long, you have delegated authorty poorly and you should hire a personal assistant. Like you literally run the company there is absolutely no reason for you to be there more than 40 hours a week. I've never understood this shit. Proof that they just study "binging on cocaine" in business school and not "actually running large orgs."
When B&J's says they couldn't find a CEO I interpret that as they couldn't find someone from the right class background who was willing to be CEO, but they were also unwilling to promote someone from inside.
@Aviva_Gary@StillIRise1963@benroyce
"qualified" often means white and Ivy League or at least can be "presentable" to those people. In the case of B&J now owned by Unilever or something it means they can fit into the mold of all the other CEOs
@Aviva_Gary@StillIRise1963@benroyce
I need to bring up pro athletes here. Their pay structure is based to a huge degree on their readily verifiable skills and ability. It's all there on tape.
@Aviva_Gary@StillIRise1963@benroyce
I'm thinking a lot of the criticism of athletes pay has not to do with what athletes salaries are , but that so many top paid athletes are black.
@asbestos While I'm sure white racists hate that for racist reasons, I think the salaries are ridiculous for cogent, societal values reasons. @sidereal@Aviva_Gary@benroyce
@asbestos@Aviva_Gary@StillIRise1963@benroyce I mean I'm not really sure how this relates. Professional sports are media franchises, they're about as verifiable and statistical as acting and movies are. Actors also generate stats based on their movies' past performance and use them to negotiate better contracts in the future.
Sports only have a veneer of being more statistical bc of gambling. And just like Hollywood, most of the people actually getting lots of money are NOT the players.
@sidereal@Aviva_Gary@StillIRise1963@benroyce
It only relates tangentially
A football players performance is verifiable, carries per game,yards per carry. .
further if they got a great block f, that's right there on the tape. If the pass was dead on, so is that. If they got no blocking and dodged a bunch of good players that's there too.
Whereas a CEO's success isn't "who came up with the idea? who suggested a better implementation? Did they know the market was ready or was that a guess?
@StillIRise1963@sidereal@benroyce
It's true, many are good at bullshiting and politics (which tbh is part of the job) but don't have anymore skill or vision than others. There are certainly exceptions.
@sidereal They don't actually like their families. Also, they think grinding out hours is the same as actually doing work (it isn't and is often counterproductive when it comes to actual work that requires any concentration or intellect). @StillIRise1963@asbestos@benroyce
@asbestos@benroyce@StillIRise1963 I just can't understand how no one internally wanted the position? You could change all of these factors as CEO.
I've seen people do some crazy shit to get shift lead positions. Lie to each other, fuck each other over just to be a middle manager. No one in the entire company wanted to be CEO? That's like. A separate problem.
@sidereal@benroyce@StillIRise1963
Some people want a low stress job that they don't take home with them. The idea of running a company like that sounds awful to me. Some people want different things.
ben & jerry's is still better than most companies in terms of worker benefits and treatment
but they are entrenched in a system. we are entrenched in a system. and it's all about how much we are all willing to suffer so some CEO gets another gold toilet
the CEO is a very important position. but it's not so important that "warp society and drive people to poverty" makes any sense
@benroyce@StillIRise1963 I'm still not gonna buy their ice cream because of Ben Cohen's stance that the US and NATO caused the invasion of Ukraine, because they provoked Russia.
@benroyce@StillIRise1963 A way for a company to get around such a rule is to outsource all low paying jobs. Outsourcing is a favorite way of avoiding responsibility.
I'm kind of having trouble with "I don't have the experience" argument.
"The Spolu" is a one-hour read. And it could lead us in a much different way than forcing executives to pay higher wages, then passing off those wage increases to consumers.
@davevolek I began this convo with I don't believe in hierarchy. So, that in and of itself would be an issue. Also, I'm married to a banker who can tell you how shares/power/money can be allocated in particular ways to fuck people. So, when I say I can't evaluate it, I'm talking about that aspect of it. I can't see those holes as easily. @benroyce
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