tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

Okay, #AmateurRadio math time.

Anyone know roughly how far a UHF (440) signal can travel, 40W of power, end-fed half-wave vertical mounted above the metal roof of a 1-story house? We're on the city limits so there's not much obstruction.

I'm not looking for exact answers, I'm just trying to calculate if 40-50 watts of power is enough to reach the neighboring (30 miles) city.

For bonus points: assume I'm on a 5W HT. You think there's enough rx gain to even hear an HT 30 miles away? Or would I have to bounce through the 50W tx in my car as an amplifier to even try that.

#HamRadio

weezmgk,
@weezmgk@mastodon.social avatar

@tek_dmn 70cm will go line-of-sight. Work out your radio horizon given the antenna heights & that should tell you if you can make the trip https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/line-of-sight-calculator

ndz,

@tek_dmn What type of coax and length of coax run? Minimize your loss.

Height of both antennas is important.

Any web SDR's nearby? Listen to your signal and see how many repeaters you can key up.

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

@ndz since this is all the planning before building something that's...

Coax, none
Repeaters, none

(And I don't think there's many WebSDRs around here anyways)

ndz,

@tek_dmn I do a lot of weak signal VHF/UHF and the biggest improvement I found was switching to low loss coax for my 100ft run to the antenna.

Should be do-able. Good luck!

SDR map is here: https://www.receiverbook.de/map

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

@ndz Literally none in the entire state... Go figure.

F4EGX_Nico,

@tek_dmn Radiowaves is like light. If you can see the neighboring city from your antenna, you can reach the city.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-earth/how-far-away-is-the-horizon

If you can't see directly, this can happen through radio reflections and diffractions. And this is where the gain and power on the antenna is important, but less than the obstacles
5W or 50W it's "It's almost same power" -> you only improve the signal by 2 S-meter points

F4EGX_Nico,

@tek_dmn https://www.pasternack.com/t-calculator-fspl.aspx

Free Space Path Loss (50km): 119.3 dB
440MHz, and 0dB coax loss, 0dB gain.
50W = 47dBm
5W=37dBm
47dBm-119dBm=-72dBm = S9+20 (50W)
37dBm-119dBm=-82dBm = S9+10 (5W)

http://www.totally-cuckoo.com/distance_visible_to_the_horizon.htm
height tower: 1000ft (304.80m) to reach 30miles city (50km)

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

@F4EGX_Nico Okay, I'm assuming this answer comes in two parts

The first is the attenuation for that much distance, and the second is the HAAT needed to make that distance cleanly?

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

@F4EGX_Nico Because, and forgive me, I lack the practical knowledge here to work this out, I just checked, most of the repeaters in the neighboring city report about 100-200ft HAAT, V/UHF.

I'm assuming that works reliably primarily because power output?

Makes me wonder if a yagi is a worthy investment here to at least focus the output
..

capheind,

@tek_dmn Are there any obstructions? A 50w radio can't punch through mountains. If it's a fairly clear strait shot, even a weak signal can get thru. I hit a nearby mountaintop repeater from many places in town with my little 5w Boafeng.

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

@capheind It's just trees and highway (no elevation) for like 90% of that, and then you get into semi-dense city, all more or less flat ground. I don't know the elevation change between cities, but it's not really hilly over here.

AE4WX,
@AE4WX@mas.to avatar

@tek_dmn depends on the height of the antenna but should be...

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

@AE4WX One story house with a peaked metal roof, assume it's mounted let's say 20 feet up from the roof surface (with me doing a lot of internal estimations with the materials I know I have to build with)

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

Full context, I'm debating using a 578 as a home base station VHF/UHF rig, but that is only spec'd for 50 VHF watts or 45 UHF watts.

I don't think a VHF/UHF amplifier that has the T/R switching time needed for DMR† that pumps 100-200 watts is reasonable... Probably already into 4-digit cost territory.

So basically it's a question of "do I makeshift a mobile into a fixed, or do I just buy a fixed V/UHF fixed xcvr" that's gated behind "is this enough power"

tek_dmn,
@tek_dmn@mastodon.tekdmn.me avatar

†: I know that DMR isn't a necessity here. But I'd rather use my equipment to the fullest and if I couldn't do that I'd just ditch the 578 for a fixed rig anyways.

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