GAZA: 3,195 children killed in three weeks surpasses annual number of children killed in conflict zones since 2019

Since October 7, more than 3,257 children have been reported killed, including at least 3,195 in Gaza, 33 in the West Bank, and 29 in Israel, according to the Ministries of Health in Gaza and Israel respectively. The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict globally – across more than 20 countries – over the course of a whole year, for the last three years.

Buffalox,

Yet some people still claim Israel is the victim! When the truth is that Israel is a terrorist state.

Kashbus,

It’s a bit more complicated than that no?

cecinestpasunbot,

No, it’s not complicated at all actually.

Kashbus,

If you find it not complicated then you are either uneducated and not impartial

I hope for the former and that you will educate yourself (en.wikipedia.org/…/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict)

cecinestpasunbot,

Apartheid is not complicated. Sorry if that’s hard for you to understand.

Kashbus,

Article 34 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV states that the taking of hostages is prohibited

I’m sorry that you are so clouded by hate

cecinestpasunbot,

Israel is an apartheid state. Apartheid is the root cause of the entire conflict. It’s also illegal under international law. This isn’t hard.

Kashbus,

I agree. But Israel’s apartheid actions are not just cause to enact rocket strikes, torture, suicide attacks, mass taking of hostages, mass attacks on innocents, or the beheading of children

It is hard, because there is no one side that has so far not committed a war crime

cecinestpasunbot,

You seem to be confused. Explaining to you the root cause of the conflict is not the same thing as justifying ongoing violence. The simple truth is that this conflict will only end when Israel decides to end the apartheid.

ParsnipWitch,

What do you mean with “ending the apartheid”. Which concrete actions do you believe are apartheid in the area?

cecinestpasunbot,

The intention and systematic oppression and discrimination of Palestinians amounts to the internationally recognized crime of apartheid.

Palestinians have no say in what happens to them. Israel restricts their freedom of movement in Gaza and the West Bank. Israel intentionally limits their access to clean drinking water, food, and other resources. Palestinians were forced from their homes en masse in 1948. To this day Palestinians continue to be kicked out of their homes and segregated from encroaching Israeli settlements. The Israeli state enforces this system of oppression through criminal and illegal violence. I could go on but you get the point.

This isn’t just my opinion. It’s the international consensus and the opinion of Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and experts at the UN.

spirinolas,

It’s becoming quite simple…

5BC2E7,

Only if you are intellectually lazy and morally stupid.

WuTang,

No it is not and all the douche saying “hu it is a bit more complicated” are just full of crap. This is smoke and mirrors. There’s no fucking sense, legitimization to their campaign on civilians, just fucking no.

samokosik,

How? Out of all middle east states, Israel is the only one where human rights are a thing.

I am not saying everything Israel does is great (especially in East Jerusalem) but the attacker is Hamas. They are the aggressor and have to be removed for good. Just like all terrorists.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

I think it’s naive to think you can eradicate Hamas. The Brits couldn’t eliminate the IRA in Northern Ireland, nor could the Soviets eliminate the mujahideen. The US and French failed with the Viet Kong. The US just gave up on the Taliban…

samokosik,

I have to agree with this. However, I still believe it should be weakened as much as possible.

TinyPizza,
TinyPizza avatar

The ol' "you shot me in the foot so I burnt down your neighborhood and killed your entire extended family" defense. Unbeatable in the court of law.

Buffalox,

I agree, except I think Israel is the one to both start and end this.
I burnt down your house and killed your family, but because you shot me in the foot, I’ll burn down your neighborhood and kill your entire extended family.

TinyPizza,
TinyPizza avatar

That one doesn't hold up as well in court though...

SirToxicAvenger,

there’s a history of violence on both sides since the post-ww2 era. no one really has time or any real inclination to attend court

TinyPizza,
TinyPizza avatar

Ah the ol' "history of violence and I've got more killing to do, so ain't no time for court" defense. An interesting strategy. Suppose it depends on the judge.

SirToxicAvenger,

it’s got more to do with the accused/accuser - neither are going to visit a courtroom (ie: the hague).

TinyPizza,
TinyPizza avatar

come on man, you're not even following the format of the joke here.

SirToxicAvenger,

my apologies

TinyPizza,
TinyPizza avatar

no need to apologize. Sorry if that came off dickish. I was trying to entice you into joining the black humor.

SoleInvictus,
@SoleInvictus@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t forget how they’ll cry to all their friends and relatives that they were the victims all along.

BillygotTalent, (edited )

Of course they are also the victim. Hamas slaughtered adults and children with no remorse. Now Israel is returning the favor.

Both sides are aggressors and victims.

Riccosuave,
@Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_moderator

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    Maven,
    @Maven@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Hey, don’t you bring Billy Talent into this

    Riccosuave,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    I actually like Billy Talent too 😄🙃

    chepox,

    If someone shoots your dog and then you go to their house and shoot their dog. Are you justified? Perhaps. But you are still shooting a dog. And that makes you a dog killer.

    2 wrongs do not make a right. Never will.

    emax_gomax,

    Isn’t that what the commenter above you just said.

    both sides are the victims and the aggressors.

    aquinteros,

    yeah they aren’t shootin up the dog, they are slaughtering their entire family and burning their home, the proportions are a bit off here

    Duxon,

    How many Americans were killed by Nazi Germany vs the other way around?

    Intentions and moral frameworks matter, not only the sheer numbers of casualties.

    tocopherol,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    People see will see these numbers and still argue “they are showing restraint, if Israel was really evil they would just carpet bomb them all.” Like what the fuck is this then?

    Kashbus, (edited )

    Ministries of Health in Gaza is Operated by Hamas, so it would not be outlandish to say these numbers are being inflated in order to push public opinion and international support

    EDIT: telegraph.co.uk/…/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-…

    “Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

    This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    Historically they stand up to even Israels secondary verification. From the AP:

    “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
    In previous wars, the ministry's counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel's tallies.

    Kashbus,

    Historically is not the same as current: telegraph.co.uk/…/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-…

    “Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

    snek,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    This excuse of “how is it genocide if there are still Palestinians alive? huh?” is such bullshit. Yes, let’s wait for Israel to kill the very last Palestinian before we can bring out our memorials and cry over the genocide.

    tocopherol,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    “The Nazis are killing Jews? Why would they put them on train cars then and have them work? Wouldn’t they just shoot them or bomb them right there? I don’t think it’s really as big a deal as it seems.” -American in 1940

    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    Well they are the victims of a terror attack by the Hamas and have a right to defend themselves also not by any means of course…this conflict has two participants who are equally involved in this conflict, your point of view seems quite one sided to me.

    aquinteros,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    WuTang,

    yes you are. Any douchebag trying to find a 1/10 of an excuse to this army’s behavior is a twat.

    let’s call a cat, a cat.

    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Mchugho,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    no victims, right. lemmy.world/post/7539955

    Buffalox,

    Obviously there are individual victims, but as a nation Israel is mostly responsible as those who have all the power.

    Guydht,

    Having power = the ones responsible?

    They have no power in Gaza. They haven’t had any for the last 15 years. The ones in control of Gaza and its population id Hamas, and the ones who doesn’t take care of poor Palestinians is Hamas. And the ones who get foreign aid and uses it for rockets instead of infrastructure is Hamas.

    Power != Responsibility. Life isn’t spiderman.

    pavokk,

    Israel has all the power over Gaza. They control who or what goes in and out. The way Palestinians have been treated I’m not surprised at all that they have ended up with extremist leaders.

    Guydht,

    They control everything in and out huh… Does that include the rockets and anti-tank ammunition Hamas has?

    Give me a break. They had a free hand running their own region for over a decade, and that’s what came out of it. Lots of military means - zero safe zones for civilians.

    Buffalox,

    They are using way superior power only to oppress, that’s why they have more responsibility.

    Guydht,

    They use their power only when needed, which is very frequently given that their neighbors advocate for civilians giving away their lives to serve a religious ideology, meaning they’re under a constant threat on their safety.

    Yes, they’re more powerful. But no, they don’t only oppress using it. If they did, you’d have what china did to their muslim minority. The use of power is large, but not disproportionate to their level of security risk.

    AmosBurton,

    deleted_by_author

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    werty,

    Westerner are immoral The US is in command 🏞️🌅🇵🇸🔜🔏

    tocopherol,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    It’s not interesting actually, it seems to be what is happening now and it’s sickening.

    dustyData,

    No one is launching the nukes, because, well…first that’s not how nuclear deterrence works, like, at all. And second, most of the people with nukes are in favor of and support Israel. You are so off base in your comprehension of global geopolitics.

    samokosik,

    You have to understand that there is a big difference between killing innocents like Hamas does - purposefully coming to peaceful Kibbutzim and killing as many people as possible and deaths of innocents Palestinians which happen because Hamas are fucking terrorists and hide between/under civil locations.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Two war crimes don’t make a right. I find it suspect how many members of the press and their families consistently happen to be close to Hamas or their tunnels. Seems more like a blanket excuse to me

    Sarmyth,

    Website is called savethechildren. I have been conditioned through hundreds of events that their goal is, in fact, to hurt children. I don’t know how, but I’m certain it shall become true.

    cunning_bolt,

    This is how you ensure there’s another generation of radicalized individuals to have to combat.

    rosymind,

    Not if you kill them all…

    A common thing to do back in the day was to not only kill the king, but the members of his family. (Especially the sons). It’s brutal, but effective

    (And obviously humans should be above that in 2023, but here we are)

    Sparlock,

    Netanyahu quoted from First Samuel 15:3, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’”

    The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.

    rosymind,

    It’s tragic how often the abused become the abusers.

    I’ve has mixed feelings about this conflict for a while now. On one hand I understand the need to preserve a people, culture and way of life especially given that aformentioned people was nearly exterminated in the wost ways. On the other hand… wt actual f. Little children don’t support Hamas. They’re blameless in this, and to murder so many innocents just to get to the enemy is sickening

    nbafantest,

    Hamas sowing: Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!!

    Hamas reaping: Well this fucking sucks. What the fuck.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    Did you forget to switch accounts? Embarrassing.

    nbafantest,

    No? Do you know why people switch accounts lmao

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    Ah, just a idiot weirdo that responds to their own comments with no context then. OK champ.

    nbafantest,

    That is a top level comment o.O

    Are you okay?

    nbafantest,

    Stop posting obviously false info from a terrorist group.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    100 year old charity whose goal is to save children from war is a terrorist group.... Are you ok?

    TryingToEscapeTarkov,

    “Not only is the child murder bad! It’s the worst it’s been since like 2019.” -the news.

    OniiFam,
    @OniiFam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    "according to the Ministries of Health in Gaza "

    Into the trash this goes. lmao. How is it that tankies are still believing every word they say fucking lmao.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    You reveal yourself to be ignorant of anything in this thread when you attempt to disparage people in here as "tankies."

    Please explain to me what a tankie is.

    Stamau123,

    Hey, those are anti-apartheid freedom lies

    nbafantest,

    Its ridiculous people just repeat clear lies from Hamas.

    And our mainstream news will just repeat it without adding in the source is Hamas. Absolute trash journalism.

    Mrkawfee,

    Israel is the terrorist.

    NightAuthor,

    No, I think once your people have been genocided you automatically pass all ethics checks.

    bezerker03,

    Hamas are the terrorists preventing citizens from fleeing and using them as shields. They are at fault. Israel is not targeting civilians they are targeting Hamas outposts which Hamas purposefully puts in civilian zones hoping for protection.

    Hamas literally wants to wipe all Jewish people from existence and started to do so. So far every one of the stories of what Hamas did to the Jewish folks has turned out to be true. Most of the Hamas ones have turned out to be bs.

    Let’s be clear. Jews haven’t lived in Gaza since 2005. Gaza was given millions and millions of dollars in aid and supplies since. Instead of building a flourishing society, they built tunnels, bombs, and shoot rockets daily at Israel trying to kill Jews even though they don’t live in Gaza. There are no “colonizing settlers” for nearly 2 decades.

    Enough is enough. Peace is not an option here it’s just a blanket that the bad guys use (and break the treaties for) all the time just to get a reprieve when sht gets real.

    phoenixz, (edited )

    Oh cut the crap

    Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a terrorist state. Both are and have been fucking awful since their inception.

    bezerker03,

    Let’s go with that. Even though it’s twisted logic.

    If Israel is a terrorist state that still means that Hamas is going after non government officials and it is still wrong. Unless you buy into the logic that the citizens of Israel are guilty as well as they should have done something to stop the so called terrorist state actions. Sure. Let’s go with that. By that logic, so are the citizens of Gaza and thus nothing is fucked up as they are all guilty.

    Or the more likely, the guys shooting rockets daily made out of supplies from foreign aid money and keeping basic supplies from their citizens are actually bad guys and terrible people and their propaganda is bullshit.

    It all falls apart when you look at the differences. Israel even if it’s selfish government reasons to do it have been taking care to protect it’s citizens where it can. Hamas however has rejected multiple peace attempts, broken the cease fires nearly every time, and keeps supplies from their citizens then goes on the internet posting about how their hospitals have no fuel when they have a huge stockpile.

    Even if they are oppressed and colonized people who are only being freedom fighters (they aren’t). Under zero context there’s no reason to side with them other than some narrow sense of virtue signalling .

    If they were going full Arab spring and trying to regain their freedom maybe, but they are literally out there in the streets spitting on the corpses of women. Everywhere. And I’m sure some Israeli would do the same because they are fucked up too. But not at this scale.

    Draedron,

    The guys shooting rockets at civillians are the bad guys. No matter whether they are Hamas or IDF

    Sparlock,

    Netanyahu quoted from First Samuel 15:3, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’” The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.

    Who is saying they literally want to wipe who off the earth again?

    Where is the IDF headquarters located? How many civilians are they hiding behind??

    UnspecificGravity,

    You don’t think the literal wall that has everyone in Graza literally trapped inside Gaza might have something to do with why there are so many civilians there?

    PhlubbaDubba,

    But mentioning it makes you an antisemite, the ADL told me so!

    anomolous0,

    Fun fact, Palestinians are semites. All Arabs are

    PhlubbaDubba,

    They speak a semitic language, and that’s not what anyone’s talking about when they refer to anti-Semitism

    shatal,

    While the phenomenon of blaming valid criticism as antisemitism exists, the counter claim which you made is now completely weaponised.

    In this entire thread, you’re the only person that mentioned antisemitism and the vast majority of the comments are very one sided in criticising Israel.

    PhlubbaDubba,

    First of all, sarcasm bro

    Second, the ADL specifically is notorious for including any anti-zionist action as an antisemitic incident, even when carried out by other Jews.

    shatal,

    First of all, sarcasm bro

    Sorry mate, so many layers and seriously made wild claims that it’s becoming really hard to detect…

    Kashbus, (edited )

    Ministries of Health in Gaza is Hamas lead no? Would not be surprised to see the numbers in Gaza being inflated

    EDIT: telegraph.co.uk/…/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-…

    “Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

    This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

    endhits,

    The health ministry is completely separate from Hamas

    Kashbus, (edited )

    Source? I was under the impression that Hamas was in charge of all Governance in the Gaza Strip

    EDIT: Following the 2007 Hamas takeover of Gaza, a month-long doctors’ strike ensued due to political disputes. The new Gaza government, with Basem Naim as Health Minister, replaced Fatah-affiliated hospital directors and staff with Hamas loyalists. Jomaa Alsaqqa, a 20-year surgeon at al-Shifa Hospital, lost his job due to his Fatah support and faced arrests and assaults since the Hamas takeover. In response, Naim stated “the hospital managers weren’t fired for political reasons: they were fired because of managerial, financial, and moral corruption in the hospitals.” per wikipedia article here (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Health_Ministry)

    While there are political independent and non political members of the Gaza Health Ministry it is still under the direction of Hamas itself.

    This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. None of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    From literally 8 comments down, don't want you to have to break your scroll wheel.

    “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
    In previous wars, the ministry's counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel's tallies.

    Kashbus,

    telegraph.co.uk/…/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-…

    “Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

    snek,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t see how Palestinians really benefit on the long run from inflating the number of deaths. So many have died and no countries have enough courage or decency to impose sanctions on Israel for it yet. If Palestinians want more deaths, they have a catalog of victims of Israeli crimes, torture cases in prison, etc.

    Yes, it’s entirely possible they inflated the numbers, yet we don’t extend the same skepticism to Israel (which is known to play balls deep into the PR game). And honestly, the majority of whom I’ve seen argue against these numbers eventually lead to excusing Israeli war crimes about 3 comments into the discussion.

    Hamas has always had an incentive to look like a bigger victim, but in all those times those numbers held up and the UN’s tally matched that provided by doctors. There is no reason to doubt these numbers now because they were correct before even when Hamas had an incentive, in completely identical situations (aka previous wars on Gaza). The trust of these numbers has not been eroded by logic or healthy skepticism, but rather by Israeli propaganda and White House officials bending to it.

    Kashbus,

    I don’t see how Palestinians really benefit on the long run from inflating the number of deaths. So many have died and no countries have enough courage or decency to impose sanctions on Israel for it yet. If Palestinians want more deaths, they have a catalog of victims of Israeli crimes, torture cases in prison, etc.

    Currently there is a massive information campaign that is being waged by Isral and the US vs Iran and Gaza en.wikipedia.org/…/Disinformation_in_the_2023_Isr…

    There are attempts to push international support to one side or the other that cause direct impact to this war

    Every little gain possible is to shift support to one side or the other

    snek,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I get that. I guess the point of my paragraph was that Palestinian lives never mattered. I thought it was clear after reading my second and third paragraphs that I’m not denying a PR war is happening… But as usual, gotta be ultra clear on the internet.

    DontJumpOffBoats,

    You mean you don’t trust the word of religious fanatics? SHAME SHAME SHAME

    clot27,
    @clot27@lemm.ee avatar

    I can just pray that war stops asap, cant see innocents dying…

    Kashbus,

    After Hamas’ actions on the 7th I don’t see Israel stepping back. Their previous attempts at curtailing Hamas were already under criticism for not going far enough, and that was before the largest attack in decades had occurred

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    He says, unironically, on an article about 3000 dead children. Gross.
    How many children do you think the critics will accept as enough? Or does that number not matter because they aren't Israeli children?

    rckclmbr,

    Its a war I don’t know what the fuck you want

    corsicanguppy,

    what the fuck you want

    It’s weird how they still class things as war crimes, despite everything being totally okay as you say.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    Literally the post we are on:

    The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict globally – across more than 20 countries – over the course of a whole year, for the last three years.

    I want them to stop the wholesale slaughter of kids. This barbarism is not how a "just" war is conducted, and especially not a "defensive" one.

    nbafantest,

    Stop reposting obvious Hamas lies.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    To repeat what I said to your statement higher up:
    A 100 year old charity whose goal is to save children from war is a terrorist group Hamas? Are you ok?

    OniiFam,
    @OniiFam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    " source hamas"

    Are you okay???

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    just fine, here ya go

    The United Nations and other international institutions and experts, as well as Palestinian authorities in the West Bank — rivals of Hamas — say the Gaza ministry has long made a good-faith effort to account for the dead under the most difficult conditions. “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
    In previous wars, the ministry's counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel's tallies.

    Furthermore

    WHO WORKS IN THE MINISTRY?
    Hamas, as Gaza's ruling authority, exerts control over the Health Ministry. But it's different than political and security agencies that Hamas runs.
    The Palestinian Authority, which controlled Gaza before Hamas overran the area in 2007, retains power over health and education services in Gaza, though it's based in the occupied West Bank. The ministry is a mix of recent Hamas hires and older civil servants affiliated with the secular nationalist Fatah party, officials say.

    If you opened your eyes to the rest of the thread you'd see this, but your special so I made a point to repeat it just for you.

    Good enough for the UN, the WHO, the AP and prior to the mass bombing campaign, Israel itself.

    nbafantest,

    I like how you quote that it is just a Hamas source lol

    Kashbus,

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    The killing of kids is terrible

    Israel’s goal of Hamas’ destruction makes it unavoidable

    Without a change in Gaza further attacks from Hamas are unavoidable

    And unless there is a government in Israel that stops the settlement and incursions of Radical Israelis in the west bank there will be no peace

    There is no true and just change here at this time that fixes everything

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    He says, unironically, on an article about as he justifies 3000 dead children. Gross.

    Kashbus,

    He says, unironically as he justifies the beheading of children. Gross. /s

    See how that sounds? Stop misappropriating people’s character

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    Yeah, wheres the evidence of that? I know exactly just how it sounds. It sounds like a poor excuse for the murder 0f 3000 children. You do you though. I don't go around trying to soften mass child murder.

    Kashbus,

    Softening the murder of children with the murder of other children would be an illogical excuse

    The evidence of such you know cannot be posted here

    I only leave this independent.co.uk/…/hamas-babies-beheading-kfaz-a…

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    The evidence of such does not exist or you know very well the photos would have emerged

    Guydht,

    Legit the most sane person I saw on this platform.

    Congrats on not being brainwashed.

    corsicanguppy,

    Israel’s goal of Hamas’ destruction makes it unavoidable

    “We did nothing to prevent the reckless deaths of twenty times the number of innocents and we’re all out of ideas”

    Karyoplasma,

    Nope, doesn’t matter. Palestine = Hamas = bad, that’s what the news say.

    Israel killed like 20 times more civilians than Hamas and nobody batted an eye for decades.

    wewbull,

    So attack Hamas, not just whoever you can find that looks like them.

    NightAuthor,

    A couple of videos I watched on the subject seem to clearly point at Israel being the aggressor. The existence of Hamas was directly caused by persistent aggression from the Isreali government.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1SpwwJEW8
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvSxSEZ4WM

    Kashbus,

    Fantastic Videos, and yes Israel has given more than enough cause for Palestinians to act against them. But none of them excuse the crimes that Hamas have committed both on Oct 7th and in the past as well

    NightAuthor,

    Idk, I think decades of serious suffering, oppression, and the looming threat of the annihilation of your people seems like just about as much justification as one could have. I feel like, to say otherwise is to tell the palestinians to shut up and take their genocide with a smile. Peace negotiations have and will get them nowhere, violence, as extreme as they can muster, is the only option they have left. Yet, it pales in comparison to what can be done back to them, and without intervention the state of palestine and its people will cease to be.

    SCB,

    The actual looming threat that Hamas attacked over was the PA enacting a two-state solution with Israel.

    Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians at all

    Sparlock,

    Fuck off.

    Netanyahu said “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .

    You keep quacking like a nazi duck man…

    SCB,

    You’re dumb as fuck lol

    Sparlock,

    That was some weak shit in answer to bibi declaring genocide. I’m not even gonna bother with a downvote for that lack of effort.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    So cold you just made that duck migrate.

    Kashbus,

    yes genocide as a response to genocide is the only solution /s

    NightAuthor,

    Is that really how you read my comment, and the situation? Hamas couldn’t genocide shit, even if they wanted to. These countries, these people, are not on even ground. And if Hamas didn’t do something extreme, we wouldn’t be talking about it, no one would give a shit, and they’d go quietly into the history books like so many before them.

    SCB,

    Quietly into the history books, as the world’s first country of Palestine

    Kashbus,

    You are not a psychic, you can make any prediction you want but it will never achieve clairvoyance

    Mass violence is NEVER a counter to mass violence

    Was nothing learned from the non-violence movements?

    cecinestpasunbot,

    The people of Gaza tried to protest in a non violent march in 2018. The IDF responded by shooting thousands of civilians including women, children, and journalists.

    Kashbus,

    non violent march in 2018 “Most of the demonstrators demonstrated peacefully far from the border fence… Nevertheless, groups consisting mainly of young men approached the fence and committed acts of violence directed towards the Israeli side” (en.wikipedia.org/…/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests)

    And they will need to keep approaching Nonviolence. It is the only solution that is viable for a long lasting peace

    cecinestpasunbot,

    Apartheid is maintained through violence. If you want a non-violent solution to the conflict then Israel has to stop violently enforcing its apartheid system. Palestinians have no say in that decision.

    We don’t even need a counterfactual to prove it. Gaza without Hamas would just be the West Bank. People in the West Bank are still suffering under the violence of Israeli occupation and have been for decades.

    NightAuthor,

    You don’t know I’m not psychic.

    There you go equating again.

    Sometimes nonviolence works, but not always. Sometimes it works in spectacular ways, like the oppressed vanish and then there is no more oppression. Nonviolent movements have existed and had grown quite large in palestine, yet here we are.

    Edit: I will say, this sounds nice: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMAtiNHuJlo

    RelentlessArts,

    Hamas aren’t doing it for the Palestinian people, they aren’t the Palestinian liberators. Just tools to be used by aggressive Islamic nations like Iran to attack a Jewish state. Doesn’t mean Palestinians aren’t going Hamas in order to do such a thing but they then just become pawns in a conflict between two very right wing, authoritarian, theocratic sides.

    5BC2E7, (edited )

    Let’s pray for hamas immediate surrender and release of the hostages. EDIT: looks like the tankies are backing hamas.

    clot27,
    @clot27@lemm.ee avatar

    Sure thing, that doesn’t justify bombing civilians

    5BC2E7,

    I’m sure that Israel wants to hear about the viable alternatives no one is able to come up with so far. Let’s hear it.

    UndercoverUlrikHD,

    Let’s hope Hamas releases the hostages and the state with one of the strongest military in the world backed by the most powerful nation in the world stop bombing kids that they have crammed into a tiny strip of land, and start working only actually solving the root of problem. Hamas’ greatest recruiter and radicaliser is Israel. The only side with the power to stop these atrocities from continuing for decades to come is Israel.

    5BC2E7, (edited )

    They are not bombing kids. they are bombing terrorists.

    EDIT: TinyPizza, I am not affected by hamas propaganda so I’m not confused, I don’t need to reorient to align with hamas.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    Sir. You might be lost. Could you please look at the title of the post and reorient yourself to your surroundings.

    UndercoverUlrikHD,

    What a trash can of a heart you must have to call literal children for terrorists just because they were born on the wrong side of a border.

    It’s possible to be against Hamas’ terrorist attacks and still have sympathy with the innocent civilians in Palestine you know?

    5BC2E7,

    I don’t conflate having sympathy with accusing israel of bombing children. They didn’t consider the children as targets they were collateral damage. But I can see how you feel they actually aimed for the children.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    That didn't happen.
    And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
    And if it was, that's not a big deal.
    And if it is, that's not my fault.
    And if it was, I didn't mean it.
    And if I did, you deserved it.

    UndercoverUlrikHD,

    They didn’t consider the children as targets they were collateral damage.

    As if the Israel military aren’t aware and don’t care about the “collateral” damage. One atrocity doesn’t excuse another.

    Sharpiemarker,

    Jesus tap dancing Christ…

    WuTang,

    Do we have the name of these children or even photo?

    The nazi, at the very least, kept a listing of them allowing history to take the measure of this shit. Here Israel goes to full obliteration!

    assassin_aragorn,

    The nazi, at the very least

    You do not have to give them even the very least

    WuTang,

    yes, I had rewritten the sentence but it didn’t work after that. My thought was more “even the nazi, the worst kind, …” I should add: at that time. Israeli is the new standard for a while now…

    dustyData,

    Yes we do, thousands of them. They write their names with markers in their little arms and legs, specifically for you @WuTang . You can go look it up, they published every single name of the confirmed dead so far and pictures of the unidentified. So you can read each and every name of every children bombed, crushed by building and shot in the face.

    WuTang,

    I think I didn’t get understood. I was sarcastic as the west and Israel love to romance stuff but don’t give a shit here and tend to dehumanize palestinians by, among other things, not naming one of them.

    Everybody knows about Emily… give the name of a Palestinian child, pls.

    dustyData,

    I wasn’t being facetious either. There is a list, published with names and ID cards. Pick one. You’ll have to excuse little 7y.o. Muhammed, he doesn’t have an Instagram account, he was borrowed a Sharpie to write his name in his arm the way his late father taught him the last time Israel bombed Gaza before this one.

    Kashbus,

    link to said list is broken btw moh.gov.ps/…/تقرير-نهائي-باسماء-الشهداء-1.pdf(link in the article)

    dustyData,

    I’m gonna try to be the less blunt as I can. But, Palestine has been under siege, and all internet access was cut two days ago, and with it all Palestinian websites were shut down. So, no shit Sherlock, the link is broken. Here is the list transliterated by the Institute for Middle East Understanding.

    Kashbus,

    Thank you for the updated list

    The insult is not needed by the way

    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    Save the Children, in line with OCHA updates, is currently relying on data from the Israeli Ministry of Health for casualties in Israel and from the Gaza Ministry of Health for casualties inside Gaza. Due to the current situation, information and numbers provided by both ministries cannot be verified independently.

    important note, since Gaza’s ministry is run by the Hamas and Israel could play those numbers down.

    OniiFam,
    @OniiFam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Hamas would kill their own people on purpose and blame it on Israel. It really doesn’t help, also, that Hamas also counts all combatant deaths as Civilian deaths.

    TinyPizza,
    TinyPizza avatar

    That is refuted already down the page, but here you go. From the AP:

    “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
    In previous wars, the ministry's counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel's tallies.

    Not that I believe you care, as you attempt to lessen the deaths of scores of children, which certainly is gross!

    avater,
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    what do I attempt 🤔

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