They are right about the mask, wrong about the baby. Bodily autonomy is sacred, no one should ever be able to tell you what you can do with your own body. That includes masks and babies.
Masks reduce a public health risk, and unborn children deserve a chance at life too.
But guess what bodily autonomy is sacred. You're rights end where mine begin. Just as you wrong to stop me from killing a fetus because i can do what I want with my body even if those choices hurt others. Same with masks, my bodily autonomy trumps everything else, killing fetuses, you getting sick, doesnt matter.
No the other mother can do that themselves by choosing to protect themselves such as with respirators or staying in doors. It is not someones elses responsibility to protect your child from your life choices.
@freemo@DemocracyMattersALot Do you want to make a baby, fund a childhood till adulthood for 18+ years or is that not your responsibility? You are a man. You have no say and no decision if an "unborn child deserves a chance at life too". Sorry. Stick to your lane.
Do you want to make a baby, fund a childhood till adulthood for 18+ years or is that not your responsibility?
There are far too many starving and homeless children for that to be a morally justified choice. I would love a child, but ethics would never allow me to do that. That said I do intend to adopt.
You are a man.
Am I? Why are you telling me what kind of genitals I have. Stop making this rude and awkward.
You have no say and no decision if an “unborn child deserves a chance at life too”.
I mean I explicitly stated I support abortion despite any apparent right of the unborn child. So now your upset that I support abortion? What idiocy is this.
More importantly, regardless of what genitals I have, I like everyone was once a fetus. So as a person (like all people) who would have been directly effected by any abortion laws obviously I have a right to have an opinion.
@freemo@canleaf@DemocracyMattersALot Abortion is self defense against hostile invaders. Unfortunately the Oath requires not assisting in an abortion. Having sex with patients isn't unethical, it's a full checkup for some patients.
I do agree that it is unsettling when a Doctor handles one's genitals and has a smile on their face afterwards. It's the same with blood work for testosterone. Doctors should be brutally honest.
Also genitals and genitalia, it made me think of Arby's.
@freemo@DemocracyMattersALot one is about helping society fight a disease/caring about others, the other is about taking away your own freedom to have or NOT to have a baby coming from an unwanted and violent action, because of ideology (religion, etc.).
You can't compare the two at all.
You could claim that wearing a mask is about an ideology too: the one about making the society survive at all costs.
Fair enough. I think that's what the State should protect, though.
one is about helping society fight a disease/caring about others, the other is about taking away your own freedom to have or NOT to have a baby coming from an unwanted and violent action, because of ideology (religion, etc.).
Yes, they are about very different things, with the only common thread being if your own bodily autonomy trumps another’s. Does your bodily autonomy trump that of an unborn childs bodily autonomy? Does you bodily autonomy trump that of some random person on the street.
You can’t compare the two at all.
Sure you can, I just did.
You could claim that wearing a mask is about an ideology too: the one about making the society survive at all costs.
You could, but that would do nothing to counter the argument of bodily autonomy being a sacred right. So it would be a very poor argument if you did and wouldnt address the assertions at all.
Fair enough. I think that’s what the State should protect, though.
You are of course welcome to your opinion. So I certainly have no problem with you thinking whatever you like even if you are wrong.
@freemo@DemocracyMattersALot you can compare those two but it's like comparing apples to bananas, with being a fruit the only thing in common.
Our laws regulate our "bodily autonomy", because we live in a society. I could argue that putting me in prison because I chose to kill someone goes against my "bodily autonomy". Yet, here we are: we need rules.
With this very basic assumption in mind, those two things are not comparable.
you can compare those two but it’s like comparing apples to bananas, with being a fruit the only thing in common.
Sure can, which is also a very valid and useful comparison. I can compare the nutrient content, sugar content, caloric content, glycemic index and use those as reasons to compare the health of the two. All very useful things to know if your trying to make good eating decisions. Just because two things are different in many ways in no way implies that they arent comparable or that comparing them is somehow fruitless (see what I did there :) )
Our laws regulate our “bodily autonomy”, because we live in a society. I could argue that putting me in prison because I chose to kill someone goes against my “bodily autonomy”. Yet, here we are: we need rules.
No you cant. If i stab someone then i have violated their bodily autonomy, if they walk into my knife then I have not. Similarly if i intentionally spit in your drink and give you covid, then im in the wrong. If you get covid because you decide to walk near me without appropriate physical protections on, thats on you.
With this very basic assumption in mind, those two things are not comparable.
At no point did I claim we dont need rules. You are engaging in quite a few logical fallacies here Reductio ad Absurdum and the False Dichotomy Fallacy. In one case you reduce my argument to the aburd to ply bodily autonomy means I can do whatever I want, which was never implied. For the second fallacy you are implying bodily autonomy only exists as absolutes and doesnt recognize that bodily autonomy again doesnt mean “everything goes”
@freemo@DemocracyMattersALot
> Similarly if i intentionally spit in your drink and give you covid, then im in the wrong. If you get covid because you decide to walk near me without appropriate physical protections on, thats on you.
Being in a closed environment (with a mask on) while someone with covid coughs the hell out of their lungs might still give you covid, which is greatly reduced if BOTH wear a mask (especially the one coughing).
So, no, it's on the person who has covid and no mask.
Being in a closed environment (with a mask on) while someone with covid coughs the hell out of their lungs might still give you covid, which is greatly reduced if BOTH wear a mask (especially the one coughing).
Thats on you for not wearing sufficient PPA. I am a research scientist who has been working on COVID and with patients for years now. Guess what, we wear full respirators, and face shields. We are not at increased risk of COVID even though our patients are often without masks themselves.
If you wear sufficient PPA then yes, you are perfectly safe and have no reason to demand anything of me.
So, no, it’s on the person who doesn’t wear the mask.
Nope its literally on your for wearing insufficient PPA. Buy full hazmat if you want, you have bodily autonomy and can protect yourself to whatever degree you wish.
That's way beyond what an average teenager will wear. The average teenager, if forced, will wear ffp2 masks (because these are the most common) and ... probably the same multiple times.
No, it's not "my fault" if I am an average person that buys an average mask from an average shop. People with covid symptoms should just wear a mask.
let me guess you were wearing shield protectors and ffp3 mask?
We actually use N95 in the lab
That’s way beyond what an average teenager will wear. The average teenager, if forced, will wear ffp2 masks (because these are the most common) and … probably the same multiple times.
Exactly, they have bodily autonomy. They can wear protection or not, thats their choice their body. If they choose not to wear protection thats on them. It is not my responsibility to habe my bodily autonomy infringed on simply because some other people are too lazy to wear appropriate protection. Doesnt work that way. You wear whatever level of protection you want, worry about yourself, you are more than capable of protecting yourself regardless of my choices with my body.
No, it’s not “my fault” if I am an average person that buys an average mask from an average shop.
Just like its not my fault if im an average person and does what average people do, and not wear a mask at all.
People with covid symptoms should just wear a mask.
See now you just moved the goal post, now your not talking about requiring masks of the general public but only people with symptoms. Despite the goal post being moved this is still a horrible take. Anyone with COVID should remain indoors, its the polite thing to do for sure. But since the overwhelming majority of people who get COVID are asymptomatic and never know they have COVID that will do little good regardless.
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