I am begging you all once more to understand - the point of bringing up the decades long and systematic abuse, apartheid, and Occupation by the Israeli government of Palestinians ISN'T to "excuse" Hamas. It's to point out that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to build a lasting peace even IF Hamas is removed, as long the deliberate and ongoing IDF and Occupation violence continues.
@KFuentesGeorge In 1937 the Peel commission offered the Arabs 80% of Palestine. They refused. The mufti of Jerusalem went to Berlin to plan the eradication of the Jews in the Middle East. They refused to recognize a Jewish state in 1948, or the other 5 times they were offered sovereignty.
As much as I don't like Netanyahu or the settlers, if the Israeli PM was Jimmy Carter or Gandhi Hamas would still exist and the Arabs would still be preaching genocide against the Jews.
The fuck does that have to do with what I said about ending the Apartheid system in Israel? "As much as I don't like...", sounds like you like them just fine.
@KFuentesGeorge You are blaming Hamas on the "apartheid system" of Israel. If you weren't historically illiterate you would know that the Arabs have never been willing to accept a Jewish state there and have been dedicated to destroying it since before day one.
Also, Israeli Arabs have full rights in Israel. Gaza and the West Bank are not a part of Israel. They have been offered sovereignty if they are willing to accept the existence of a Jewish state. They refuse.
If you want apartheid look at what happened to the Jewish communities in the middle east after 1948. They were ethnically cleansed.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell@KFuentesGeorge And yet when they make falafel their national dish they get accused of cultural appropriation? What is your point? They wear a lot of western clothes in Lebanon as well.
@KFuentesGeorge
Bombing Gaza to rubble & committing Genocide against the Palestinians is just going to radicalise many of the remaining Palestinians that survive the bombardment etc. Either Hamas or replacement organization will benefit in recruits especially amongst young adults
@AutisticMumTo3@GhostOnTheHalfShell@KFuentesGeorge How sad that so many use words they either don’t understand, or are so brainwashed & misinformed, they blindly swallow & repeat vile lies & hateful propaganda, which only perpetuate ignorance, hate & suffering.
Super curious about what a chart would look like if it depicted the Palestinian population within the 1948 borders of the state of Israel. I bet it went down sometime around 1948!
I’ve seen estimates of 50-80% of the Palestinian Muslim population of Mandatory Palestine expelled in 1948, though I can get good numbers on how many were killed.
Suffice it to say that a comparable graph that depicted the Palestinian Muslim population within the 1948 Israeli borders would also depict the sort of ethnic cleansing and genocide that these graphs elide.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell@AutisticMumTo3@KFuentesGeorge
Ghost, you’ve never been hindered by facts/reality, so I fully expect you’ll continue lying as per usual… However, Arab/Muslim/Druze/Christian Israelis say the opposite… that they have equal & more rights in Israel than in any Arab/Muslim country.
Having more rights under an apartheid regime in Israel than under the obscene dictatorships that rule most Arabs in the world does not somehow exculpate Israel from apartheid.
Thanks for making it clear that you are determined to ignore all evidence contrary to your BS propaganda & brainwashing —including that by actual Arab-Israelis who live there. #Putin#Iran#CCP and all the bloodthirsty tyrants of the world thank you for your service. 🤡
This is less of a “propaganda and brainwashing” thing and more of a “Israeli law explicitly privileges some people over others on the basis of their ethno-nationalist identity and the Israeli state applies two separate and unequal political and legal regimes” kind of thing.
The Israeli state’s guarantee of citizenship to anyone Jewish person anywhere in the world, while denying even access to Israel for people born there and subject to lifelong Israeli rule without citizenship, by itself alone, is sufficient to demonstrate apartheid.
@HeavenlyPossum@AutisticMumTo3@KFuentesGeorge@GhostOnTheHalfShell Show me an Arab/Muslim country where Jews are provided w/education, healthcare, voting rights, free speech, and are in govt, Supreme Court judges, in positions of power, or even in any significant numbers. Is it because that’s how you like it & believe the world should be in regard to Jews everywhere? Is that why you focus so much criticism on Israel, yet ignore actual #WarCrimes by #Russia#China#Syria#Iran etc..?
There are none; that is bad; this bad thing cannot justify crimes by the Israeli state. One bad thing does not justify another; two wrongs don’t make a right.
My criticism is focused on Israel because Israel is engaged in massive war crimes, right now, and because there’s considerable denialism about those crimes from people like you, whereas I encounter dramatically little or no questioning about the crimes of actors like Russia or China.
Yes, as an anarchist and a communist, I am opposed to all states and hierarchies of oppression, including Israel’s apartheid regime, as well as the states you depicted via flag emojis. This is correct.
You’re clearly a reactionary troll who appropriated leftist iconography you didn’t understand in an effort to infiltrate leftist discourse spaces to spam your IDF apologia, which doesn’t seem to be working out for you.
Nice attempt at a deflection, but this has nothing to do with what we were discussing.
If you think anarchist communism is bad, though, you shouldn’t have snagged a black and red raised fist as your avi in a comically transparent attempt to fit into leftist discourse spaces.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell@HeavenlyPossum@Properganda
I get the impression that everyone who died during what happened on Oct 7th is considered to have been killed by Hamas whoever actually pulled the trigger & no one was killed by an IDF weapon. The truth is irrelevant in the propaganda war surrounding that & everything else connected to Israel Vs Hamas
I remember hearing several months ago about the churches being vandalized & Christians persecuted although my understanding is its not as extreme as facing Palestinians (that doesn't make it right- it's still wrong).
The fact that any Jewish person, anywhere in the world, can travel to Israel and receive automatic citizenship, while Palestinians who were expelled from what is now Israel and have lived their entire lives under Israeli rule cannot even travel to Israel proper, is sufficient to demonstrate apartheid.
@HeavenlyPossum@KFuentesGeorge@Properganda@GhostOnTheHalfShell
And there are other things like Palestinians are tried in military courts without due process even when they are civilians. I don't know the situation now but I heard Israeli govt official talking about after destroying Hamas Palestinians only being allowed to vote in local elections not national ones. Probably true now too.
Yeah—they’re openly discussing state sanctions on Ha’aretz after the newspaper reported on Israeli soldiers who claimed that some of the Israeli civilians killed on 7 October were killed by panicked, indiscriminate IDF fire.
I’ve read that something like 70% of the IDF’s total combat power was focused on the West Bank, where Netanyahu has been focused on annexation, which left the communities around Gaza poorly defended, contributing to a panicked response to the attack.
Which is not to say that all or most of the victims of 7 October were from friendly fire. Hamas massacred innocent civilians. Some of them were killed by the IDF, according to members of the IDF, but the Israeli state is considering a crackdown on Ha’aretz for publishing their testimony.
@HeavenlyPossum@KFuentesGeorge@Properganda@GhostOnTheHalfShell
I heard on Al Jazeera that they don’t even have access to Lawyers in the Israeli jails and for the court cases. I doubt even a military Israeli would be denied access to legal representation even in military courts. But just because they are Palestinians they are denied legal representation.
About a third are held under administrative detention, with no trial at all. The other two thirds are mostly charged under military courts, which feature a comically unbelievable 99% conviction rate. Israeli settlers are subject to Israeli civil law.
Itamar Ben-Gvir—Israel’s minister of national security who used to have a portrait of terrorist mass murderer Baruch Goldstein in his living room—had been pretty open about the apartheid nature of this regime:
@HeavenlyPossum@GhostOnTheHalfShell@Properganda@KFuentesGeorge
It said on Al Jazeera that many are held under administrative detention but I can't remember if they said the proportion. I couldn't remember the conviction rate other than it was the sort of rate you'd get in Russian courts. Not good with remembering numbers.
As for the settlers I get the impression from what I hear in the news they rarely get arrested if their victim is Palestinian.
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