quixoticgeek

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

The biggest flaw in the way the system has been implemented, is the difficulty in returning bottles and cans. If you buy a drink at a gas station, drink it there, and try to return the empty bottle and get your 15c back. They can't do it. You have to take it to a supermarket. Where they have machines capable of processing the return. If you have a single bottle, you're not going to make the trip just to return it. If you don't have an easy way of carrying the empty, or don't want to...

2/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

Then in the bin it goes. Sure you lose the 15c, but meh, it's only 15c. Many people aren't going to worry about that...

But some do. And so you get people going round emptying the bins searching for bottles and cans they can claim the deposit on. And they aren't worrying about not making a mess in the process... and so we get the situation in this photo. I watched from my bus as two men walked down the street with a bin liner full of empty cans and bottles. Leaving a trail of mess behind.

3/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

This consequence of the law was evident very quickly after it came into effect. Some municipalities were quick to fit racks to bins in parks so that if you didn't care about your deposit, you could leave your empty bottle or can in the rack, and people didn't need to ransack the bin to find it. Alas they still got ransacked, cos well there might be a can or bottle in there...

Some have suggested putting the deposit value up, say 50c.

4/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

The idea being it people will be more inclined to actually hang on to the bottle and return it properly if it's worth more. Unfortunately, this completely fails to recognise what the actual failure of the system is.

It's too difficult to return the bottle or can. Last summer I bought a 500ml bottle of drink at a gas station 1km from the German border. I drank it all there and then cos it was hot. I couldn't return it to the gas station. There wasn't a Dutch supermarket easily on my route.

5/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

I ended up carrying that bottle for 160km on my bike and returning it with my other empties as part of a normal grocery shop. But most people won't do that. Further on that cycle trip, I bought a bottle of the same drink from the same brand of gas station in Germany. Drank it all, handed it back, and got 25c in coins. It was easy, it was quick. It worked as intended.

The system as it is in .NL needs to be changed such that all places selling bottles/cans with deposit, must accept returns.

6/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

This will make it easier for people do "do the right thing". It will act as the law intended. Reducing litter, and getting people to return their bottles themselves to claim the deposit, reducing what's available for people to find by ransacking bins.

So why have I done a 7 part and growing thread about bottle returns in the Netherlands?

First off, thanks for reading if you've stuck this far.

Secondly:

7/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

This shows a lot about how hard it is to get people to "do the right thing". In most cases people want to do the right thing. Who doesn't want to have less litter, to have a nicer environment. But the vast majority of people aren't going to take actions to do so unless it's easy to do so. Are you going to carry an empty bottle around in your bag until you goto a supermarket just for the sake of 15c? Most people won't. But if you can walk back into the shop you just bought it from...

8/n

quixoticgeek, 9 days ago

then you might make the effort to go and get your money back.

This extrapolates to many other areas. People want to reduce their environmental impact, moving away from fossil fuels. But it's really hard. In many regards we're still in the early adopter stage for a lot of green technologies. Switching to a heat pump is not an easy thing to do, it's not a like for like replacement and it requires effort. So people go for what they know, and what is easy, and install a gas boiler.

9/n

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@A_C_McGregor it's a waste of milkshake when there's bricks available... :p

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

This time without autocarrot fucking it up.

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@iangriffin how did you get this shot? It's awesome!

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@Wen @hanscees exactly. The impact of "invasive" species is going to get more severe as climate change increases. The effect on endemic wildlife is going to profound.

This is not just nature. This is potentially landscape changing.

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@hanscees @Wen except humans have a critical dependency on honey bees. So while they may be effectively a domesticated species, if the honey bees die out, we will see wide spread crop failures of many of our most important food crops. Sure the cereals will be ok. But beans, oil crops, and fruit are all done for.

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@bitterdonald @hanscees @Wen given this started discussing an invasive species in the UK...

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@kim or @CountBinface's lot are canvassing...

quixoticgeek, 10 days ago

@jon to be fair, I think the train counts as shelter. So you are clearly ahead.