Actually, Internet Explorer 6 was once 97% of the browser market. That’s right, 97%—they had the browser market locked down!
If ever there was a situation where “embrace, extend, extinguish” (EEE) should have worked, it was with the open web.
Yet Microsoft failed. Why is that?
First, while Microsoft initially was installed by default on every Mac, they had neglected the Mac version of Internet Explorer. So Apple took action and made their own browser—Safari. They shipped this in 2003.
But also, Microsoft refused to build a version of Internet Explorer for Linux. This forced Linux advocates to build their own web browser engines, most prominently KHTML. Apple forked KHTML into WebKit, which was then used as Safari’s browser engine.
Thereafter Netscape rose from the ashes as Mozilla, released Firefox. And Firefox not only caused tabs to go mainstream, but also extensions too.
And where was Microsoft while all this was happening? Resting on their laurels, content with the belief that EEE would work. They never improved IE6. As all the other browsers came out, IE6 looked more and more worse.
But still, they had the corporations using it, so there was no fire in Microsoft to improve IE6.
The final nail in the coffin was Chrome. Corporations were willing to make the leap to Chrome because Google built backwards compatibility for IE6 with Chrome.
Microsoft tried to recover with subsequent versions of Internet Explorer. But they eventually discontinued it and released a new browser called Edge.
Nevertheless, Microsoft never achieved browser dominance again even with installing edge as the default browser on Windows.
Microsoft failed to #EEE the open web. It wasn’t the open web that was extinguished. It was Internet Explorer.
@atomicpoet And now Chrome has EEE'd the open web.
It's not coincidence that HTML5 became a "living spec" as XHTML 2.0 was finished. With this setup, Google could push extensions through W3C, which they provide the de-facto reference implementation for in Chrome.
That's why most Browsers now are based on Chrome in some form or another. There are no resources to compete against this.
@jens There were no resources to compete against IE6 either but IE6 is now dead.
Beyond this, I use Firefox every day. I’m doing just fine. Not once have I ever had issues using the web.
Further, Chromium is open source. This is why Edge, Opera, Brave, etc. all use it.
The situation now is nothing like it was when IE6 reigned supreme, and we have more tools now for the continuation of the open web than we did 20 years ago.
@atomicpoet Google needs the web to function as it does to extract value from it. It does not need to offer the only browser on the market. A good point of reference here is the recent changes in tracking tech, where Google is suggesting to replace overt tracking that can be blocked with less overt, harder to block alternatives.
G is embracing the open web. The extension is subtle. It extinguishes the openness by providing everything itself, in a way that serves them.
@jens It’s not as sneaky as you might think. Ever since AMP, people are more distrustful of Google than ever before. Every attempt to EEE inevitably fails.
@atomicpoet Oh, it's obvious enough, for sure. But it's happening, and little is being done to stop it.
I'll be happy if the open web wins over this. But I don't believe it, if I'm being honest. There is just too much money being made in going along with it.
Ummm…I run my own mail server for several domains. Emailing Google accounts is just fine. I use Mail-in-a-box and it was quite easy. But I did have some prior knowledge.
@jens@springcomp@atomicpoet Prior knowledge: yes, I've been running my own email server for almost two decades. I know how to mail google, but it is getting increasingly and unnecessarily difficult.
Do you understand why it gets rejected? Is there a message from Microsoft saying why?
I think that would be the the first step.
I must also admit, that I am not using my server for sending emails as a person, but more receiving. The thing that sends most emails using my server is my Mastodon instance.
The message I get is so simple and also so frustrating:
« 550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [IP.IP.IP.IP] weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list (S3150). »
I at a loss my server should be put on a blocklist.
Ok, but that’s means your IP or rather a block of IPs has been blocked. That would mean that your IP is on a spamlist that is blocked by most others.
So, you need to find out more about what’s going on. I wouldn’t think so much about why at this point. But focus on finding out which list you are on and see which actions you can take to have the IP removed.
@atomicpoet@jens the extension Google is succeeding with is a death by a thousand cuts, by making subtle additions and changes to Chrome that makes sites become unreliable on anything but their browser leading people to just use Chrome because they don't want the hassle.
It's not as blatant as amp, but it's still ongoing, and is very successful.
@atomicpoet OK, I asked a question about something concrete, and you reply with rhetoric. Nah, mate.
It's okay. I don't know, either. That is, I know a bunch of small efforts that have no chance of making a big difference individually, that lack coordination between them. Not that there are no attempts being made at that, either, but it's hard.
So, as a compromise to resolving this: let's get back to this thread in a few years and provide answers then.
@atomicpoet Thanks, that’s a nice sunmary. But IIRC, Safari was based on KHTML (Konqueror) so that must have come first. And wasn’t Firefox (called something else initially) not there before Safari, too? And the fact that Microsoft got into big legal trouble for bundling IE with Windows probably deserves a mention :)
@atomicpoet Fantastic examples all, clearly EEE doesn't work over the long term.
Does this mean that attempts at EEE are entirely harmless? Would browsers have evolved differently without a near-decade of Microsoft holding the dominant position, fighting open standards and stagnating the state of the art?
@jesscanady Absolutely, attempts to EEE are harmful and should be resisted at every turn. But as we resist, let’s remember that we’re more likely to win than lose.
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