It’s an unpopular opinion among EV purists, but I think hybrids will reduce a lot more carbon emissions than BEVs, for the simple reason that way more people can switch. Even without access to charging outlets, hybrids are far more efficient thanks to their regenerative braking. With access to outlets, they are as good as EVs within their electric range, which will account for most of the daily commutes of their owners, and all with far smaller batteries and better costs of ownership than BEVs.
The way to eliminate emissions due to personal transportation is not to put people in BEVs. It’s to eliminate commutes and massively invest in (electrified) public transportation.
I'm curious what trend will win out over the next five to ten years. I'm team "cycling, e-bikes, and mass transit ftw" when it comes to decarbonizing transportation, but it's still interesting to see what direction the shift from combustion engines will take.
@RebelGeek99 In the US, the data is clear: EV adoption has hit the plateau of the S-curve, as the early adopter market has saturated. More people are opting for hybrids and PHEVs because EV charging infrastructure is too unreliable—or entirely unreachable—for a large portion of our population, and because the depreciation on EVs are brutal.
@drahardja
I’m pretty sure the carbon neutral point for an EV is so good that a hybrid is only winning in ones wallet. Basically the answer is more “it depends where the electricity comes from”. Norway or California where renewables are the main suppliers of electricity can be carbon neutral in < 10k miles. Most hybrids will burn fuel their entire lifespan.
@Bryan It doesn’t matter how clean the electricity is if people cannot use EVs.
Long-distance charging infrastructure is terrible, public charging sites are too few and broken most of the time, and most people live in apartments that don’t have overnight chargers. EV sales in the US has stalled because of these reasons. I’m glad folks can buy hybrids and PHEVs instead of pure ICE vehicles, and I think it’s actually going to net us a greater carbon reduction than a push for pure BEV.
BEV may become a no-brainer in the future, but not today. And we need carbon reductions today.
@drahardja I agree—anecdotally haha. For me there’s the extra complication of needing a convertible. But I’d buy a plug-in version of my car in a heartbeat.
After taking a rented Polestar on a road trip, though, there’s no way I’d buy pure electric until the charging infrastructure is FAR more robust.
(Tesla has a good network but it’s always been no-go for me because I’ve always hated Musk, thought the build quality was appalling, disliked the basic interiors, found the UI horrendous, etc.)
@Holberg I suspect you’re not going to see a convertible EV soon because of the aerodynamic drag penalty on those 😄. Convertible PHEVs though…maybe some day! It‘s also more plausible to have an open-top experience for city cars because aero drag matters less at low speed, but I suspect that’s not what you’re looking for.
You may be glad to hear that the Tesla NACS charging standard is becoming more widely adopted, so non-Tesla cars can charge at Tesla Superchargers too. Or you may not be glad to hear about it, because non-Tesla owners will now be paying Tesla to charge their cars…
@drahardja just to point out that BEVs also have regenerative braking. So the claim that hybrids are more efficient because of that is false. Additionally, when talking about plugin hybrids, if they're not plugged in and recharged, then the ICE will have to power the car and charge the battery very often, which is highly inefficient.
It would be awesome to eliminate commutes, it would have a massive impact. Even if it wouldn't solve the problem. But that's not feasible for many reasons.
@Disputatore I’m claiming hybrids and PHEVs are more efficient than ICE cars, which is what these folks would be driving if they didn’t buy hybrids. And because far more people are able to afford hybrids and PHEVs than BEV, the total carbon reduction due to hybrids would be greater than BEVs.
@drahardja
Totally agree. My next car if I somehow outlive my current car will be a hybrid, just makes too much sense. I've driven a Prius, nice little car although I prefer my 335 hp car on the freeways if I need to get up and go.
@richardknott Sure, but what’s the opportunity cost? Prius Prime drivers weren’t ever going to buy BEVs anyway. How much more emissions would they have produced with ICE?
It’s the perfect vs the good argument. I think hybrids and PHEVs will reduce more total carbon faster than BEVs, because more people adopt them, even if their individual reductions aren’t as dramatic as BEV.
@drahardja I’ve been driving an EV since 2011, but now I recommend people who ask me to get a plug-in hybrid. The Prius Prime is a great car and can charge overnight on a household outlet, no need to rely on fast charging for trips.
@jbond@ukuku I think the Prius Prime was their first in 2012, but they have PHEV versions of many vehicles now. I think the “Prime” brand indicates plug-in.
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