@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

netbsd

@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org

We make a fast and secure open source Unix-like operating system for all of your computing devices, whether they be Raspberry Pis, EdgeRouters, ThinkPads, servers, or SPARCstations. Check the about page: https://www.NetBSD.org/about/

We pioneered cross-platform package management with #pkgsrc, anykernels, and TCP/IP in space.

Not cross-posted from the bird website ;)

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jutty, to firefox
@jutty@bsd.cafe avatar

After a search in the NetBSD packages for lightweight web browsers, the winners are: vimb, dillo, luakit and netsurf.

Dillo's new release 3.1.0 still hasn't landed, so no HTTPS there. Luakit is very neat, extremely lightweight, minimal, has vim-like bindings and would be perfect if it weren't for the constant white flashing between each pageload when using a custom, darker CSS. NetSurf is also quite neat, with tab support for heavier sessions.

The winner for me is vimb, which although leaving tabs to the window manager, has vim-like bindings, is pretty minimal and does not cause flashing when switching between pages on a custom darker CSS setting.

Honor mention to Arctic Fox, a Pale Moon clone that hits peak nostalgia with the pre-omnibar Firefox look. No theming, not as lightweight, but going strong at 29.5k commits since 2018.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@jutty Arcticfox is notable for being one of the few "heavy" browser engines that officially supports NetBSD upstream.

onepict, (edited ) to random
@onepict@chaos.social avatar

Seeing some rather recognisable attitudes in arguments against NetBSDs stance against AI generated code.

How do you know, how would you stop it. You can't stop us.

Like aren't we meant to be better than that?

Disturbingly similar attitude to when we ask folks to not scrape folks posts on the fediverse without asking.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Plus there are some very real licence considerations which will affect copyright (and copyleft).

https://blog.brettsheffield.com/all-your-base-are-belong-to-llm

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@onepict i've probably said this 100+ times now - this policy is for committers (foundation members) only, who've all already signed contracts with a clause about tainted code.

the policy is for base only, which has strict rules about copyright for Reasons™0. We are not opting out of running any third-party code that might have used an auto-completion tool. Since the BSD license requires strict attribution, our code in base can't be used to train LLMs either.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@onepict Also way too many people confusing "tainted" for "poor quality".

fabio, to ai
@fabio@manganiello.social avatar

joins the ranks of software projects that ban generated code.

How they are going to enforce such ban is an obvious question lingering in the air.

Does it include only cases like “hey write a suite of unit tests for this class”? Or also cases where simply autocompletes a for loop while I’m typing it?

In the latter case, how would a hypothetical reviewer enforce the ban? How would the for loop autocompleted by Copilot, or the boilerplate population of hashmap values, look any different than one I would write myself?

And if the issue is with any code that isn’t directly written by a human, then why stop at modern AI generation? Why not include LINTers and traditional IDE autocomplete features?

I have no doubt that the projects that are announcing these no-AI policies have good intentions, but it’s probably time for all of us to have an honest talk.

Code completion isn’t a clear cut binary feature. It’s a big spectrum that goes from the old exuberant ctags to ChatGPT writing whole classes.

And code completion shouldn’t be banned. If it makes a developer more productive, and if the developer understands the code that is being completed, then such bans are akin to a “drivers should only use cars with manual transmission because we feel that it’s more manly”. It’s a conservative and elitist act of shunning out new productive tools because we can’t understand them and regulate them properly.

And more people need to call out the bluff: in cases where the AI only completes a few lines of code, its basically impossible to tell if that snippet was written by a human or an AI assistant.

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/05/17/007240/netbsd-bans-ai-generated-code?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@fabio It is enforced by legal contract that every committer is required to sign.

BSD projects have historically had very strict rules on the copyright of submissions for very good reasons - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories%2C_Inc._v._Berkeley_Software_Design%2C_Inc.

zahatikoff, to random
@zahatikoff@mastodon.social avatar

Hey @netbsd and @jaypatelani ! I got pretty sick and tired of not having portable non-vm , so I was looking into pinebooks...

But apparently people had troubles with bwfm drivers and it was recommended to use -current.

Is it still a valid recommendation? Is the stuff in 10.0 already? Did anything change in general?

Thanks in advance!

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@zahatikoff You should get a urtwn regardless of which version.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@zahatikoff You should get a urtwn or use ethernet or urndis regardless of which version.

campuscodi, to random
@campuscodi@mastodon.social avatar

NetBSD follows Gentoo and bans AI-generated code

"Code generated by a large language model or similar technology, such as GitHub/Microsoft's Copilot, OpenAI's ChatGPT, or Facebook/Meta's Code Llama, is presumed to be tainted code, and must not be committed without prior written approval by core."

https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@pixelistik @campuscodi The problem is entirely copyright. LLMs are trained on a large existing body of work which doesn't have the same licensing requirements as us. The one thing the BSD licenses require is strict attribution, and feeding code into a LLM destroys that.

netbsd, to random
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

New development policy: code generated by a large language model or similar technology (e.g. ChatGPT, GitHub Copilot) is presumed to be tainted (i.e. of unclear copyright, not fitting NetBSD's licensing goals) and cannot be committed to NetBSD.

https://www.NetBSD.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@rzeta0 Us not being the boss of them is kind of "the point"

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@jokeyrhyme That would require review and approval by core@.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@mark This is one of the sets of rules that every person with commit access has to follow. Becoming a committer is not easy, it requires joining the Foundation and signing various contracts that place the burden of responsibility on the member. It's a fairly reasonable assumption that we should be able to trust our members, and if not they shouldn't be members.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@daniel_collin @asmodai This is one of the sets of rules that every person with commit access has to follow. Becoming a committer is not easy, it requires joining the Foundation and signing various contracts that place the burden of responsibility on the member. It's a fairly reasonable assumption that we should be able to trust our members, and if not they shouldn't be members.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@iwein This is a hiring policy - it's part of the developer contract that all new members of the Foundation are required to sign. Foundation membership is required for commit access.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@julienbarnoin @andrei This policy is not about about code quality, it's about copyright.

netbsd, to random
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

Malte Dehling has contributed a ZFS verification method for cgdconfig(8).

This allows CGD encrypted ZFS partitions to be validated without putting a redundant GPT table inside them.

https://freshbsd.org/netbsd/src/commit/l8DqFN0POdK6MJ9F

netbsd, to random
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

As a final goodbyte to the netbsd-8 branch, the release engineering team have put out one final release containing all the changes ever made to the branch. https://www.NetBSD.org/releases/formal-8/NetBSD-8.3.html

NetBSD 8.0 is a few months shy of being 6 years old.

netbsd, to random
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

X.Org on NetBSD - the state of things

https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/x_org_on_netbsd_the

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@mmu_man I don't know how to edit the site, or I would have. 😜

tech4eva, to random
@tech4eva@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

How is everyone on #SDF doing today?

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@tech4eva sweaty and tired

joelp, to retrocomputing
@joelp@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

Got my hands on an old Mac Mini G4 PPC and immediately installed NetBSD 10 . Good docs of course, including specific to the G4. Once you get the hang of partioning for Open Firmware 3, pretty straight forward. My first Apple product 😂

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@joelp My favorite computer.

netbsd, to random
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

It turns out we have been secretly maintaining X.Org over the years and nobody noticed.

(The number of not-yet-upstreamed patches in our xsrc tree is fairly huge, working on fixing that...)

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@phf just alan coopersmith, who works on x.org for oracle solaris, and has been prompt in merging BSD patches

ParadeGrotesque, to random
@ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

So, uh... In the Linux ecosystem, systemd is now getting the equivalent of sudo, called 'run0' if I got everything correctly.

Somewhere out there 'Jia Tan' is rubbing his hands, because he now has his next target.

Seriously, though, systemd programmers: have you learned NOTHING?

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@ParadeGrotesque If you're really oldschool NetBSD... https://cdn.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/current/pkgsrc/security/priv/index.html

jcamos, to random Portuguese
@jcamos@bsd.cafe avatar

Friends, what internet browser are you using and why?

I want to try something new.

I know this is a bit vague, but I want to know what good (preferably with low need of resources) alternatives are out there.

Thanks! 😎

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@jcamos Arcticfox

jspath55, to animals
@jspath55@chaos.social avatar

Forgot to extinguish the flash and made the cat look like a zombie rising from the egg.

netbsd,
@netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@jspath55 Cat is on standby mode.

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