@jacqui76 The apple didn't fall far from the tree. Stanley Johnson's post-Brexit statements re NI:
There never was a hard border.
Who cares if the Irish (sic) start shooting each other.
The change in tone since Bojo's downfall has been remarkable as the UK govt likely had advance information on NI's changing demography as well as a growing appreciation of US support for upholding GFA & indivisibility of EU.
Very true - father like son! Their ignorance on Ireland is only matched by their aggorance. Life would be greatly improved if both of them disappeared from public view.
Yes the change in tone from the #British is quite remarkable, however Biden doesn't appear to trust their change in attitude.
Plus Chris Heaton Harris is absolutely useless as NI SoS he really doesn't give a flying toss about us. He really should do us all a favour and toddle of back to the big island.
@jacqui76 Not sure I agree on CHH. He was a hard Brexit ERG headbanger who was expected to be belligerent and obnoxious like the little corporal Mark Gino François and Steve "Brexit hard man" Baker who became his sidekick. CHH knew Simon Coveney from before in Brussels and SC is a gent to his fingertips. What happened next? An apology from Baker for past attitudes and CHH not going out on a limb to support DUP & seeking agreement w EU on Protocol implementation.
Harriett it is a real tough watch. There was plenty tears. I wasn't born until 1976 so the early years of the Troubles is just what I have been told by people & the TV footage.
However, I remember the fear of that awful awful week of the Shankill Bombing & Greysteel Murders. I really did believe that week we would never see an end to the horror.
How the hell we survived it, I really don't know. But we did...
That's it Harriett. I watched it over two days. Extremely powerful testimony and some of it is a hard listen. But we need to hear it. It can't be forgotten what happened here.
We can't ignore what happened here. It isn't that far away and it isn't all sorted yet either.
That must have been one hell of a change for you in the 80's Harriett?
@jacqui76 I must try get a VPN to watch that.
It's all only the recent past. I remember growing up in Cork hearing the news n stuff. I'd a cousin who we were very close to,who moved up there. We'd no phone so when his area made the news, he'd ring the neighbours 3 times & hang up to let us know he was OK. I don't know how he coped with that stress, or anyone really. Everytime he visited, I would be allowed in the room for some convos but banished to my sisters room for others (he stayed in mine)
If you can get it, I would recommend anyone to watch it. We all on this island need to be reminded what we lived through not that long ago.
Yeah, we didn't have the level of communication back then to let people know we were alright if there had been a shooting or bomb.
It is so strange to say it now, you didn't stress about it because you didn't know any different. It was normal - you would wake up to the news to another death, think that's shocking and then get on with it.
@jacqui76 I think the word I'm looking for is "resilience"? The incredible strength to live through so much. I've experienced a lot of death with my immediate family & a lot of my friends - all while a teenager. Family was cancer, friends were suicide, sudden adult death when it was unheard of,crashes & drugs & it takes a toll.Its unimaginable to me to have to handle that and violence.People are amazing getting through hard times like that.No one in their right mind wants to see a return to it.
I am sorry to hear that. It is an awful lot of sadness & grief for one person to deal with.
As you say you find a way to cope with all of that. It is amazing what a human being can cope with.
No-one wants the mayhem. That is why those advocating violence need to watch & listen to those who lived through it. Instead of fighting some romantic notion in their heads.
@jacqui76 thank you. As you said earlier, you get on with things. It was the hardest time of my life but I put one foot in front of the other, went to bed, got up, went to school. Auto-pilot I think it's called.
It seems some have a very romanticised view. Well 1 in particular. When he winds up the crowd and let's them loose. I cannot understand wanting to go back. A generation grew up without it for the most part, and that's not a long time at all to forget the loss, hurt & terror.
Yeah...one foot in front of the other, one day at a time and before you know it life is back to a new type of normal.
I wonder who you could be talking about - 🚮 by any chance. Who seems to want everyone to go back to 1912 to satisfy his ego but not actually do any of the dirty work himself. Twat!
@jacqui76 I could do the one foot in front of the other but never had to assess risk or be alert for any kind of violence at a funeral or wake or anything like that. I don't think I'd have been able to be alert enough.
Amazing! You knew exactly! Surely there's been loss or injury in the immediate or extended family or friends, so I can't understand him wanting a return to it
I still behave like I did when I went out and about during the Troubles..I sit facing a door, if I can't see the door, I check and see if their is a mirror with the door's reflection, check were the emergency exits are and freak out if I see a bag on its own....mad I know. We in the North of a certain age are all still programmed in a certain way!
🚮 annoys the life out of me. He knows nothing of what he speaks about. He doesn't know what it was like to grow up during the Troubles & he certainly hasn't read a history book. If he has, he certainly hasn't understood it.
He is 🤡 and is best ignored. He offers us nothing of benefit in #NI
That is a rabbit hole I certainly wouldn't want to go down. If anyone did, they would need to be very careful. I think he is best ignored for all our sakes.
@jacqui76@Cbfoley
Interesting. I still feel uneasy in a restaurant or wherever if I don't have my back to the wall, or I can't see the entrance.
I managed quite some time ago though to not have to check the tyre pressures on the car before getting in, though.
Some find that level of mistrust and caution amusing. It isn't. And those who don't understand are invariably younger.
I do think we in the #NorthernIreland of a certain age all have our coping mechanisms from that time., which is something that we will never lose. At least, I do know how to get out of room quickly if required. 🤣 😉
There really wasn't anything funny at all about the Troubles. However, it is the reason we have an extremely black humour in the North. I do laugh at very inappropriate things because that is how we survived the maddeness. #NIpolitics
@jacqui76@PacMan that was a coping mechanism. Ppl who went through it have earned the right to process however they can & need to. Even years later.
It's very different to ppl who find it funny at how someone coped & still has the habits from back then
@jacqui76@PacMan Probably lots. A habit started early in life that went on for years is hard to shake.
Thank goodness you were lucky. I feel those sort of things very much, they weigh me down. Any time I read a book on up there or watch a clip, I feel it & cry. I don't know how people had the strength to carry on. And even now - some still fight for justice years later. Unbelievable strength.
Never again is right. Hopefully sane minds prevail
It is disgusting the length of time it is taking for justice to be served. You shouldn't have to fight to get it while grieving. It is wrong & it is cruel.
Yeah, watching it back this week it was like - Was it really that bad? Why did it go on for so long? How did we survive? Finally, the bombs were loud - I had forgotten.
@jacqui76@PacMan I don't think the grieving fully happens either til there's some sort of (and I hate this word) closure.
I can't even begin to imagine how back then felt. We had many bomb scares while I was in school and that's as close to a similar fear I could feel, but it's still no where close to the reality people lived., not just one day or a few days, but many days for a long time.
Up there is so close in one sense but worlds apart
Thanks to Partition & the Troubles we are really two different worlds on the one island.
We share so much but we were separated by act of recklessness that did untold damage.
If we are serious about the #reunification of the island, then we are going to have to listen to each other, so we can understand what the decision the #British took 101 years ago, did to us all.
@Cbfoley@jacqui76
It's interesting how things become normalised. I can remember bringing The Beloved™ to Yorkshire, where we had our first, as well as our current home.
It took a few weeks for her to get over stopping just inside the door of a shop, holding her bag and looking around for who was going to search it and possibly frisk her.
Going into a shop on the UK mainland was a strange experience in 1982.
It must have been some what of a shock to the system that you didn't have to get your bag or yourself searched. It was what you did when you went shopping!
@PacMan@jacqui76 I'd friends stop for a search when they came down here too. It's a whole different kind of life ppl experienced. We never had to do any of that down here. The only noticeable thing from then was lack of bins and to this day, there still aren't many bins
I don't think you would be able to fully describe to someone who didn't live here during the Troubles what it was really like. I doubt it would have been acceptable anywhere else!
I think it is a bond that we all share - if you lived in NI during the Troubles - then you just know.
@jacqui76@Cbfoley
We have 4 bins: General waste bin, cans, bottles and plastic bin, cardboard and paper bin, garden waste bin. At least we have somewhere to put them.
In fairness to the local council, they're pretty good about collections, and the Dumpit claims 77% of stuff taken there is recycled.
We have a black bin for general waste, brown one for grass and food waste. Plus a recycling stack bin - three smaller ones for paper, plastic and glass.
Some even have a blue bin, which to stand on to do a poor impression of Carson!
@jacqui76@PacMan I doubt anyone could understand it either, that wasn't there. Some ppl have great imagination but they'd still never be able to understand the fear, terror, hurt, loss and all that.
The fact it was called "The Troubles" minimised it too in people's minds
Yeah calling it 'The Troubles' is really underplaying what happened here. It was a Civil War in all but name.
You wouldn't wish that experience on anyone and you wouldn't wish for it's return either....if you knew how it felt.
I class myself as not even knowing what it was fully like. We as a family never had to experience death from a bomb or shooting. We were the lucky ones!
@jacqui76@PacMan it's a strange name for a period of time where so much happened. Down here we call the civil war what ir was - a civil war. I often wonder which government gave it The Troubles name.
I can't understand why anyone would want to go backwards. Communication is key, those lines must stay open.
@harriettmb@PacMan@jacqui76 I was very close with a dog exhibitor & she used tell me about being searched crossing the border for dog shows.
They had a car of dogs after a show & stopped somewhere to nip into a shop (more availability on stuff up there).They came back to the street cleared & the lads with bomb disposal gear.An "abandoned" IE plated car on a street caused concern. They were told the only reason it wasn't blown up in a controlled explosion was coz ppl could see the dogs
@Cbfoley @harriettmb@jacqui76
I remember a visiting American leaving his hire car parked unattended outside the Tech in Belfast. I don't know if Hertz offered extra insurance at the time, but inevitably, the army blew it up.
@Cbfoley@jacqui76@PacMan I had a stall in St George’s Market for years, and did markets and craft fairs out and about for a long time. Everyone was alert to and aware of unattended bags, vehicles etc. It becomes a default setting in your brain and never goes away. Wouldn’t matter where I am, even now - an unattended bag or vehicle in a unusual place would have me on high alert.
@jacqui76@harriettmb@Cbfoley@PacMan I can still remember BA shuttles. You turned up at Heathrow and you could board without a ticket and pay on the plane. No security.
@harriettmb@Cbfoley@jacqui76
The year before the pandemic, we were in Gatwick airport about to go away on holiday. Airports love to make you get there early, so they can try and sell you stuff. A chap who appeared to be alone approached us, asked if we'd watch his wheel-along bag while he went to the loo.
My brain immediately went into full "Lost in Space" mode, "Danger, Will Robinson, Danger! Danger!!"
He was probably harmless. I declined. We moved to the other end of the airport.
@jacqui76@Cbfoley@PacMan I remember standing at the doors of Arnotts with my bag open, more than once, as a reflex action! The nice doorman looking at me like I was completely mad. It’s amazing how quickly such behaviour becomes built in. Also a loud noise like a car backfire has you ready to dive under a table or run. Or avoiding/reporting an unattended bag anywhere, then evacuating the premises.
@harriettmb @jacqui76@Cbfoley
Not long after I left there, a light bulb at work failed with a loud bang. Others remained where they were, I was halfway down the corridor!
Yes, I do get to enjoy a meal out or a coffee - too much my OH would argue!
I didn't realise I was still doing it until someone pointed it out. Then, I went 'Oh I am still doing that'. It is ingrained at this stage. Consequence of living in dysfunctional society...
Add comment