What would it take for cities to retrofit or supplement their #bike counters with #eBike detectors? The growth of #eBikes for #transportation trips should not be underestimated. Maybe an EMF or heat signature? How do the standard ones distinguish multiple bikes at once? #pdxBikes#bikeTooter
@enobacon wondering about the use case for this in the context of the counters. What's different about the ebike specifically that we want to count them separately on the trail? General adoption metrics would be far easier to capture at point of sale, and my assumption is that from the trails perspective traffic is traffic. I'm happy to be wrong though so please challenge my priors
@szeis4cookie If, by "trails", you mean bikeway routes for transportation, the difference is in design speed for sightlines and passing space. Point-of-sale numbers will be different since some bikes are only used for recreation, there are mail-order e-bikes, etc. Maybe by the time policy catches up to the facts on the ground, they'll just figure every bikeway will be filled with e-bikes (since it will be blatantly obvious in a year or so)
@Drew#transportation#planners are still thinking things like "a bike heading uphill is slow", not considering space to pass, or how their designs create conflict or lead people on #eBikes to choose the lanes which #trafficEngineers imagined were now reserved just for cars. The general lack of awareness of how their designs function in reality is already bad enough, now they don't even understand what traffic they should design for.
@enobacon I just don't think anything would be designed diffently knowing that "1000 bikers use a corridor a day with some ebike and some acoustic" versus, "1000 bikes with 38.2% ebikes". And if you really needed that data you could get at it more cheaply than modifying counters, like a survey.
@Drew I imagine there's a use ratio where speed vs path width and sightline conflicts become amplified, but I can fully believe it wouldn't change the designs because they're not interested in effective design as much as blaming the users.
Most either use pressure as the wheels pass over the sensor or the electromagnetic signature of the metal frame or wheels of the bike similar to the sensors used for cars at traffic lights. Not sure how well they handle bikes crossing them in parallel or cases like unicycles, trikes, quads, or trailers.
There are also thermal sensors that detect pedestrians and cyclists.
Bikes, electric assisted or not, seem too variable to reliably distinguish in an automated way.
@dx what is the detector mechanism? A sequence of inductive loops under the pavement? (would a trike count once per axle because the wheels hit at the same time? How is a quad different than a pair holding hands?)
@enobacon The ones I’ve seen are an air hose that’s depressed when you ride over it. I’m not sure what the mechanism is for more permanent installations. IR beam?
We can miss a bike if two ride side-by-side and both tires hit the hose at the same instant - but if they're even a quarter-metre apart, signal/time analysis will find both bikes and tell you how fast they are going (time between two tires).
Not sure if its a problem that e-scooters can't be told apart from bikes...
If you want a separate ebike+scooter count, a detector for electric motors is easy enough, but will >double the cost of counting.
@RoyBrander@dx@enobacon I've noticed that many cycle counters and traffic lights that use induction loops embedded in the tarmac do not detect my long wheelbase cargobike. It has an aluminium frame and belt drive, but then so do many normal-size bikes. It's irritating, to say the least, sitting at a red stop light, and having to wait for another bike to arrive to trigger the lights to change.
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