AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Looks like the Intuitive Machines IM-1 lander tipped over and ended up in a sideways orientation after landing, similar to the JAXA SLIM lander few weeks ago ☹️

Vertical velocity was a bit high at 6 mph instead of 1, lateral velocity was 2 mph instead of zero. One of the legs is thought to have snagged a rock and caused the lander to tip over.

Solar panels are generating power, the lander is communicating, although the signal is weak.
No pictures yet.

News conf. at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWEwR8fscFY
1/n

adrianco,
@adrianco@mastodon.social avatar

@AkaSci First computer game I ever played was Lunar Lander in BASIC on a DEC10/teletype in 1973. Maybe they should have run that?

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

More on the Intuitive Machines IM-1 mission from the news conf. - the Laser range finder did not work because someone failed to unlatch the safety latch before launch. :eyeroll:
Hence, they switched to using the NASA LIDAR instrument instead.
Luckily, they found the problem before the landing sequence and they were able to work out the details of using the NASA LIDAR for landing literally in a few hours.
Need better checklists?
2/n

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Perhaps, there is something to be said about making landers short and stubby instead of tall with skinny legs?
There has to be sufficient margin for imperfect landings.
3/n

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Dr. Phil Metzger has a simple and clear explanation for why things tend to tip over on the moon -

"When a lander is tipping, inertial forces push it over, while gravity pulls its feet back down flat. On the Moon, gravity is reduced by a factor of 6, but inertial forces are not. Everything is 6 times tippier on the Moon.
"

Also, having a low center of gravity and a large base helps gravity win over inertial forces.

These are well-known principles. So why the tall slim designs of late?
4/n

boltondown,
@boltondown@mastodon.social avatar

@AkaSci Haven't we seen proposals for a full-sized SpaceX Starship as a lander? I'd imagine once that starts to tip over there's not much that'll stop it.

peturdainn,
@peturdainn@mastodon.social avatar

@boltondown
I assume that's why they stuffed it with thrusters at the top (but I still bet on it that it will top over)
@AkaSci

TMEubanks,
@TMEubanks@astrodon.social avatar

@AkaSci

And this is why I find the Starship lander to be so sketchy.

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

@TMEubanks
They must be claiming that they can land Falcon boosters on earth (which are empty shells with little fuel left). How much more difficult can it be to land tall skinny two-way spaceships with equipment, fuel and humans on the moon? Our engineers will figure it all out - after they fail a few times 😉

jovikowi,
@jovikowi@spacey.space avatar

@AkaSci

When your lander's a-tip
And your pads cause a flip
That's inertia!

When you put mass up top
So your probe wants to flop
That's inertia!

When your side speed ain't nil
And a stub makes you spill
That's inertia!

When your legs have much splay
So you touch down okay
What's inertia?

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

@jovikowi
👏 🏆

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Here are some graphics of proposed lunar landers that are part of the NASA Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) initiative and 4 pics of landers that have successfully landed on the moon.

You be the judge of the probability of tipping over for these landers.

https://www.nasa.gov/commercial-lunar-payload-services/clps-providers/
#Space
5/n

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Perhaps the width of the IM-1 and other landers is constrained by the design of the Falcon 9 and similar modern rockets, which can carry payloads up to a width of ~4.6m. IM-1's legs are 4.6m wide.
OTOH, Apollo used folding legs, which were 9.5m wide when deployed but only 6m when stowed. Also, the mighty Saturn V rocket could accommodate wider payloads.

@INCO
https://apollo11space.com/nasas-apollo-11-lunar-module-basic-facts/
6/n

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

The Intuitive Machines IM-1 Odysseus lander has been spotted and located by NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO)!

The 1st image below was captured by LRO on Feb. 24, 2024 from an altitude of 90 km.
Lander location = 80.13° S, 1.44° E, 2,579 m elevation.

The 2nd and 3rd images are from the LROC site/database.

The local terrain is sloped at 12°, which can be seen in the 3rd 3D image of the area.

https://www.nasa.gov/missions/lro/nasas-lro-images-intuitive-machines-odysseus-lander/
https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/?camera=295115.152%2C6404.893%2C-1715889.873%2C0.315%2C-0.273%2C6.283%2C1741095.067%2C60.000&id=lroc&showGraticule=true&showTerrain=true&queryOpts=N4XyA&trailType=0&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEBmZcAsjYIHYFcAbAyAbwF8BdC0ypcOKbRFOOZRBaAOnXfyJpVBFIA&proj=22
#Space
7/n

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Update from Intuitive Machines:

The fish-eye image below was posted today. It was taken by Odysseus ~35 seconds after pitching over. The camera is on the starboard aft-side of the lander.

Also - "Based on Earth and Moon positioning, we believe flight controllers will continue to communicate with Odysseus until Tuesday morning."

Do they mean Tuesday, Mar. 5, since the Sun will set at the site on Mar 3 or is it tomorrow because of terrain and orientation?

https://7c27f7d6-4a0b-4269-aee9-80e85c3db26a.usrfiles.com/ugd/7c27f7_357496b3ba404948ba24ad63081b5d23.pdf
#Space
8/n

chgowiz,
@chgowiz@dice.camp avatar

@AkaSci Tomorrow, by what I read - due to its orientation.

hellpie,
@hellpie@raru.re avatar

@AkaSci are there any news on the camera that was supposed to capture the descent?

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

@hellpie
There was some news that they are still evaluating how and when to "eject" the EagleCam and start taking pictures and communicating using WiFi with the IM-1 Odysseus lander.

See https://news.erau.edu/headlines/eaglecam-updates-embry-riddle-device-lands-on-moon

hellpie,
@hellpie@raru.re avatar

@AkaSci thanks, i had no idea it didn't get flung off yet

chgowiz,
@chgowiz@dice.camp avatar

@AkaSci From Ars Technica:

Intuitive Machines, said, "[W]e believe flight controllers will continue to communicate with Odysseus until Tuesday morning." This is because the lander, which is tipped over on its side, will only be able to collect solar energy for a limited period of time.

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/nasa-found-the-private-lander-on-the-moon-but-its-lifetime-is-running-short/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=mastodon&utm_medium=social

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

@chgowiz
It's all very ambiguous. If they mean Tuesday Feb 27, why don't they simply say so?

The news release says -
"Flight controllers intend to collect data until the lander’s solar panels are no longer exposed to light. Based on Earth and Moon positioning, we believe flight controllers will continue to communicate with Odysseus until Tuesday morning."

The 1st part has do with Sun and solar panels, the 2nd part sounds like line-of-sight comm limitations.
https://7c27f7d6-4a0b-4269-aee9-80e85c3db26a.usrfiles.com/ugd/7c27f7_357496b3ba404948ba24ad63081b5d23.pdf

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Minor update from the Intuitive Machines IM-1 team -

  • Odysseus has been sending science data and imagery.
  • Battery life is estimated at 10-20 hours, confirming that terrain and solar panel orientation are not favorable.
  • They posted another pic taken just before touchdown.
  • No mention of EagleCam status
  • Few more celebratory words 🙄

Richard Stephenson of DSN Canberra reported data download from the NASA LND1 instrument.

https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1
9/n

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

Here is some info. on the comm link with the Intuitive Machines lander, which is regularly monitored by the good folks at AMSAT-DL.

The Rx signal from Odysseus was stronger last night than before. It is believed to be caused by the declining Sun and falling lunar ground temperatures, which reduces interfering comm noise. Hence the Signal-to-Noise Ratio SNR was higher.

Would be nice if IM could share such info.

News conf. (post-mortem) by NASA and IM tomorrow at 2 p.m. ET.

10/n

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

This article from Ars Technica, based on interviews with IM CEO Steve Altemus paints a very different picture that what has been said before.

The NASA LIDAR did not get used for landing. The flight computer onboard Odysseus was unable to process its data in real time. There were no altitude readings after 15 km altitude. Optical navigation cameras were used. Close to landing, the nav system altitude estimate was off by 100 m!

Pic of snapped landing leg tomorrow.

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/it-turns-out-that-odysseus-landed-on-the-moon-without-any-altimetry-data/
11/n

AkaSci, (edited )
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

The above info is not available in any of the regular info channels used by Intuitive Machines.

Presumably, they will talk about it in tomorrow's press conference.

Strange how they are handling news releases and disseminating info in bits and pieces about Odysseus and the overall mission, through writers willing to post glowing reviews.

12/n

dand,

@AkaSci also it’s as if nobody at these private space exploration companies have spent hours playing Kerbal Space Program 🐸

prefec2,
@prefec2@norden.social avatar

@dand @AkaSci maybe it is the other way round. They played it day I and out and later thought they could wing it just like in the game.

dand,

@prefec2 @AkaSci just send a rescue mission to tip it back upright!

AkaSci,
@AkaSci@fosstodon.org avatar

@dand @prefec2
That lander has 7 more days of life left, before it succumbs to the long cold lunar night.

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