@dziban@functional.cafe
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

dziban

@dziban@functional.cafe

#commonlisp dev, mainly using #sbcl and #LispWorks

I play (#go #weiqi #baduk)
https://blog.dziban.net/

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amoroso, to random
@amoroso@fosstodon.org avatar

I wonder how difficult would it be for newcomers to grok Lisp parentheses if they weren't implicitly supposed to find parentheses hard due to all the fuss and cliches around them.

As a complete Lisp newbie over three decades ago, to me parentheses "disappeared" within minutes of using my first Lisp environment, TI PC-Scheme, and have never been an issue since then.

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@amoroso I'm currently teaching my gf programming using scheme and SICP, so I'll get back to you. She has no preconcieved notion of programming.

dziban, to forth
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

Next #forth project: Super barebones (but useful) #willow protocol implementation.

Following with the post-apocalyptic aesthetic and everything around things like #permacomputing and #collapseos I see an opportunity for a decentralized easy to use way to share data between isolated communities through something like the #willow protocol.

I don't know why I'm so attracted to this aesthetic but it's a bit of a current obsession.

dziban, to random
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@neauoire finally made my first useful non-toy program in Forth. It's pretty satisfying, I think I'm grasping more and more what it is and it feels incredible. It's strange how it focuses you on simplifying the problem instead of giving you infinite tools to bloat and to feature creep everything. I've never felt that a tool guides my thought in a good way quite as much as with Forth.

dziban, to emacs
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

What do you people use for budgeting and finance tracking?

dziban, to forth
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

http://collapseos.org/ is pretty cool, I need to get better at #Forth. This space of simple, low requirements computing is super interesting to me, do you know any more resources? Also some that are hardware based?

loke, to random
@loke@functional.cafe avatar

Sorry for beating the dead horse. But our favourite Apple fan is endorsing the Tiktok ban. I thought he was against the government telling companies what to do?

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@loke who are we talking about

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@loke oof, I see, the markdown guy

mykhaylo, (edited ) to emacs
@mykhaylo@fosstodon.org avatar

Made an library to easily define git repo specific menus:

https://github.com/licht1stein/context-transient.el

I use it a lot for projects

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@mykhaylo This is awesome!

dziban, to random
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

Yesterday session to bring quicklisp/ultralisp/git together with for development and deployments with NixOS was very fruitful.

One of the main problems with deployments is that you need a matching SBCL version and glib version for them to work. Nix can be a solution to that but it has a very sad story for common lisp dependency management.

Maybe something will come out of it. Currently I have an autogenerated flake with all of ultralisp and a lispDerivation function that creates a derivation and pre-compiles the fasls given the lisp implementation you wanna use.

louis, to random
@louis@emacs.ch avatar

@dziban Did you by chance work with interface toolbars? I've an issue with updating a toolbar and the documentation is very sparse on that topic. Just asking if you already went through that struggle 🙂

Flights are booked btw.

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis Haven't implemented any toolbar yet, sorry :( Do not have that struggle under my belt yet.

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis yeah, just read your lisp-hug email! Yeah, I think there needs to be more information around lispworks in general, it would be great if you wrote about it as well, looking forward to that. When I was trying to get more info on LispWorks before buying I could hardly find anything. Only some random reddit posts here and there.

CAPI is very nice to work with indeed, its easy to hack a quick UI for a task. Definitely better than the web stack. And if you need more flexibility pinboard layout ir even output pane is there for your needs. Next article I write will probably be about the output pane and how I built the structural editor.

I did see about the first talk! I'm checking the website everyday hahaha I'm very excited actually, how are you feeling about ELS

dziban, to Lisp
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

Quick article about delivering a #lispworks application, the remote debugger and library troubleshooting.

https://blog.dziban.net/posts/delivering-a-lispworks-application/

#lisp #commonlisp

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@vindarel I think it's not available in any version, but I may be wrong. @louis you know more about this?

dziban, to random
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

I'm attempting to use the Remote Debugging capabilities of but I never manage to connect. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I have a very simple application based on the examples/delivery/hello example. In the delivery script I (require "remote-debugging-client") and then run (dbg:start-client-remote-debugging-server). Once it's running (and I know it has started), I run (dbg:ide-connect-remote-debugging "localhost"), but it times out after a while with Failed to get remote version for connection "localhost" - 6 [Maybe the other side is not a Remote Debugging Client]

Any ideas?

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis Yeah, on the IDE side I've done

(require "remote-debugger-full")<br></br>

it just times out when attempting to connect. I've ran throught the documentation troubleshooting, even creating a normal tcp server on the client side and connecting from LW, and that works, but not the remote debugging.

I've sent an email to the lisp-hug mailing list to see if they see anything I'm doing wrong.

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis I'm setting up the client as the TCP server tho. In theory from the IDE side I only need to connect, right?

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis It is a delivered application indeed. Let me try with delivery-level 0, one sec

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis Ah, that was it, it was probably shaking that or smth. Forgot I had it at 5 😅 Thanks a lot @louis

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@louis I wonder what is it not detecting that is being used although it is... it seems not to be in the dbg package. With delivery level 3 and :never-shake-packages '(dbg comm) it still doesn't work.

dziban, to random
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

What #crt should I buy? I want a CRT for a retro computing project but I don't even know where to start. Are there any recommended ones that tend to stand the test of time more? Any that I should pay more attention to? The project would mostly work with monochrome black and white.

dziban, to Lisp
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

Have you tried any #lisp structural editors? What are your thoughts on them? Any favourite ones?

dziban, to random
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@amoroso Enjoying my time with #Interlisp a lot so far, very interesting thing and quite different from CL (although from what I see it has a CL-like version inside as well).

Currently learning to create windows and getting the hang of the Interlisp language.

A couple of questions:

In SEdit, is there any way to move around structures with the keyboard? I like the structural editing but I'd love to move around with the keyboard instead of the mouse.
Is there a way to search for a symbol that has been selected in SEdit in the DInfo panel instead of having to manually Lookup! it?
Is there a way to make the whole thing bigger? I have a very large screen and I would like to have more space to put my windows
NLAMBDA is a function that takes unevaluated forms instead of evaluating first? So a macro is basically (EVAL (NLAMBDA ...))?
What's the story for persistance? If I wanted to save some data from within Interlisp so that it's available everytime, let's say I'm building a Note system where I can write notes and keep relations between notes (something like org-mode or obsidian), where could I save the notes?
Also what would you say are the main differences with CL that I should be aware of?

Sorry for a lot of questions, it's just an exciting system, I understand why you daily drive it

Maybe @masinter can help me out as well

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@amoroso @nhbriggs @masinter Sorry to bother even more 😅 When doing the NoteCard tours it always breaks when jumping to the next node with a TableTopEntry is an undefined function.

I was trying to do the NoteCard Tour and the first "Welcome to NoteCards" window shows up, but the rest doesn't seem to work. I can replicate it on the website and locally.

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@amoroso @nhbriggs @masinter

About the guided tours breaking

Okay, so after a lot of debugging, getting the hang of BREAKPACKAGE, and debugging the functions around NoteCards, particularly the NCGT.NextTTOrCard. I was very confused because when I ran one by one the expressions in that function inside the debug EXEC in the break window everything was working fine. It was complaining that TableTopEntry was not a function, but it was never supposed to be a function as far as I could read. In the end I tried to modify the function to know exactly where it was breaking (is there any way to know from the break window?) I created a binding at the top level and I SETQ it incrementally to know where it was breaking and when I arrived at the BREAK window again the binding didn't exist. So I figured the LCOM files are the precompiled versions of the regular files. I renamed the NCGUIDEDTOURCARD.LCOM file so it couldn't find it and now it works. **So it seems some of the LCOM files as downloaded from the Interlisp **tgz package for linux may be stale?

Seeing as you have the same problem in the web version it seems that it is not a corruption of my particular download.

I have a separate issue when attempting to create a new NOTEFILE, it attempts to open an empty file. I've also debugged it to the offending call but I cannot completely make sense of it. I May try the same approach by renaming the LCOM to force a recompilation (that's what I assume is happening).

One other question, when I re-run medley the LCOM file is not recreated, is that normal?

#Interlisp

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@nhbriggs @amoroso @masinter Not at all! It was fun to start looking at the internals :) Also this is incredible work you are doing, providing us with access to this incredible software. It takes a lot of work. Was reporting in detail in case it was useful.

Ah, the inspect code may be what I was looking for, thanks once again!

hayley, to random
@hayley@social.applied-langua.ge avatar

McCLIM a e s t h e t i c s

dziban,
@dziban@functional.cafe avatar

@hayley What do you use for layout? The edges and nodes look very well laid out

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