Happened in the Philippines around 6-8 years ago, nefarious airport security would intentionally put ammo in a victims luggage with the intention of shaking them for bribe. It lead travellers to wrap their luggage in plastic prior to departure. As far as I know they targeted locals I don’t remember foreign victims.
“I have two bags I use whenever I am going outside my family land, sorry I missed a shell or two from the last time I went huntin, so what, I’m just an American”
Others:
“FUCK AROUND FIND OUT!!! One ammo? That’s like 30 pounds of heroin, I hope you go to prison you dumb motherfucker”
The full story is that Turks and Caicos Islands has struggled against gun violence for years, so it passed much stricter gun laws in 2022. American tourists were violating this law by bringing guns and ammunition in their bags, but the courts in all of the previous cases recognized that prison was a harsh punishment for lapses like this, so they’d reduce the sentence to a fine. But it just kept happening, and perhaps in frustration, in February an appeals court ruled that the lower courts could not exercise that kind of discretion.
Given that those courts had been lowering the penalty to a fine, it seems unlikely that they’ll sentence people to long prison terms. (Any prison time does seem like an overreaction, but it also seems that the country got frustrated and wants to send a message about following its laws.)
Somebody goes on a hunting trip. Among other things they pack ammunition. The cardboard box of ammo breaks open and 100 rounds spill all over the inside of their bag. A year later they go on a different trip and bring the same bag with them, and there’s a loose round in the folds of the bag they don’t know about, but the dog sniffs it out.
That’s why I have separate bags and cases specifically for traveling with ammunition.
honestly they should be securing their fucking ammo better. cardboard boxes aren’t meant for travel. the packaging it’s sold in isn’t meant to stand up to abuse. stop pouring casings around your luggage and you’ll have an easier time with this.
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I’ve found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
this is why you don’t pleasure travel with your bang bang kit. spent almost a decade in the military, travelling CONSTANTLY, from training to war zones and all over for technical stuff - never ever tried to bring ammo onto an aircraft.
I’m saying that people screw up and explaining a simple way to avoid the same mistake.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you’re so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
I’m explaining that those ammo bags and cases are there specifically to avoid accidents just like this - not as a tacticool fashion statement.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you’re so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
or you know, you could be one of the 2 million people on reserve, guard or active duty. I had bags for both and even with that, never, ever brought home live or blank ammo. it’s a sensible precaution if you’re around lots of loose ammo, but also, if you take the time to check your shit it really isn’t rocket science.
You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don’t like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let’s point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are ‘ignoring’ the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn’t just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it’s weight around to protect it’s citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
Don’t crime, don’t do time. Isn’t that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I’m pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I’m not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It’s like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
one: it’s not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don’t want that, DON’T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don’t they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don’t get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you’re actually trying to argue that it’s unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You’re very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don’t like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn’t “attempt to find out” they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
You’ve made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don’t like gun owners. I’m just holding the mirror up and you don’t like what you see.
One can only commit an injustice against a person if it’s an immutable characteristic? That seems dumb in and of itself.
Ftr, possessing drugs is not a immutable attribute either.
But if that’s your hang up, the logical next thought would be “what if I take race out of it” and it’s just a conservative cheering on someone doing serious jail time for possession of a small amount of marijuana.
You avoided an important question in my post which undermined your whole point.
I stand by my point, their desire (and probably yours) is to make a gun owner suffer because you don’t like them, justice and objectivity be damned. It’s just like a racist conservative.
People are (rightfully) glad that reckless idiots travelling to other countries carrying literal explosive devices have been arrested, and your takeaway is there is… racism directed towards gun owners?
People are glad that these people have been arrested for carrying explosive devices and you’re drawing parallels to racism because of it.
That’s your argument, and it’s absolutely ridiculous.
And it’s very funny that you’re calling me dishonest, when earlier in the thread I mentioned that nobody was being punished for actions of their state, and you claimed you never said that. I then pasted you saying exactly that and you went off talking about something tangentially related.
That’s your argument, and it’s absolutely ridiculous.
No, what’s ridiculous is you lying by claiming I said they are racist, and then turning around and lying and saying that I’m on people for not being “up in arms” about it, when all I’ve been doing is pointing out the injustice of the prison terms. I’m not even up up in arms about it. I just think it’s wrong. But, don’t worry, I won’t lose any sleep if these people do jail time.
You keep flailing around trying to make my argument ridiculous, but all it does is reveal that you’re uninterested in actually thinking about this, but instead just making up reasons in order to claim I’m wrong.
mentioned that nobody was being punished for actions of their state, and you claimed you never said that
Yeah, because I said people want them to be punished because of actions of their state, not that they were being punished for actions of their state. At first I thought this was probably just a case of poor reading comprehension, but in light of your current dishonesty, I’m not so sure anymore. And, besides, even if I was being dishonest, that doesn’t preclude you from being dishonest.
You can write walls of text about how “that’s not what I said” all you like, but it’s clear to anyone reading what you’ve said that you tried to compare racism to people being glad about these morons being arrested.
You also tried to claim you didn’t say “unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state”, when you said exactly that in your previous message, when referring to people traveling with bullets they brought in their own luggage.
You’ve made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don’t like gun owners
oof, another swing and a miss. you’re so damned close tho kid… tell you what. I make a distinction. I actually have a ton of respect for many gun owners; unfortunately, too many are fucking idiots who don’t keep their weapons and ammo accounted for.
And I despise those fucks. They’re the idiots getting children killed, supplying criminals with weapons and pissing off our neighbor countries with petty bullshit like this.
What I’d like to see happen: responsible people keep their privileges - but what I’m certain is going to happen is that everyone is going to be punished because the fucking morons can’t stop leaving their pewpews in their fucking unlocked cars.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it’s a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It’s makes zero sense.
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I’d be happy to answer your question.
You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
they went out of their way to patronize a country that does NOT invite firearms-tourism. why weren’t they smart enough or patriotic bang bang enough to travel someplace they could bring their stuff to?
tsk. poor decision making by them, poor judgement by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I couldn’t care less why they weren’t smart enough. I’m okay with them being punished for it, but in these cases a fine seems more reasonable than a decade in prison.
by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I’m for pretty strict gun control. You are exposing yourself here: this isn’t about being reasonable, it’s about some vengefulness against gun owners. Get out of your black and white thinking and taking sides and be objective.
Well, if people travel into a foreign country and don’t even care about the laws of said country (not in detail, just reading the governmental warnings would have been sufficient), they deserve what happens.
Imagine I would travel to the US and would bring along some Kinder surprise eggs by mistake. Would those governors show mercy to me? I don’t think so.
You honestly believe that over a decade in prison is a good punishment for this type of accident? We are talking about it possibly resulting in kids being without their parents for the bulk of their childhood. Do you really think society is better off if that happens?
you and I both know they won’t spend a decade in the clink. IF they get sentenced then the state dept will go to work and these jackasses will pay some kind of fine.
Don’t want to go to a jail in a foreign country? Don’t break their fucking laws. It’s really quite simple. And each and every one of these idiots admitted to their crime. Not a single one is innocent.
you and I both know they won’t spend a decade in the clin
I would hope not, but I know nothing of the Turks and Caicos legal system, so it would be extremely presumptuous of me to claim I know that.
IF they get sentenced then the state dept will go to work and these jackasses will pay some kind of fine.
Either they do something now, or after conviction, I don’t particularly care.
Don’t want to go to a jail in a foreign country? Don’t break their fucking laws. It’s really quite simple
This is the whole point, it seems these were completely unintentional violations of their laws. The way you write this makes it sound like they just don’t care about the laws there.
people unintentionally break US laws all the time, yet our system still punishes them. and foreigners who visit and do the same too.
it’s a law system, not a kindness and forgiveness system.
The way you write this makes it sound like they just don’t care about the laws there.
I think the Turks is fucking justified in being upset at the endless line of assholes who KEEP TRYING TO BRING AMMO into their country. It’s not an isolated incident.
people unintentionally break US laws all the time, yet our system still punishes them. and foreigners who visit and do the same too.
Does it really need to be explained that two wrongs don’t make a right? It seems mad to me that one would say “these people should be punished because the us justice system does some things poorly.”
I think the Turks is fucking justified in being upset at the endless line of assholes who KEEP TRYING TO BRING AMMO into their country. It’s not an isolated incident.
They didn’t pass this law because people were unintentionally bringing tiny amounts of ammo into the country, they passed it because the law wasn’t strict enough to punish people smuggling in ammo for gangs. How does one actually convince themselves that they were actually targeting tourists with 10 years in prison because they accidentally bring ammo in the country? Lol
oh you were in the legislature when the laws were crafted?
REALLY?
I’m dubious.
In fact, they didn’t pass a law that said “no ammo but one or two rounds is aight”. Not “No ammo but accidents happen we understand and will be merciful and lenient, unlike the US’s policies…”
no. They’re a sovereign nation man, piss and moan, whine and bitch all you want, they get to make their rules and when you go there their rules get to apply to you. Stand up and be an adult. Fuck.
oh you were in the legislature when the laws were crafted?
Lol were you in the legislature when they passed this law? You seemed to have no issue declaring the reason for it when it confirmed what you wanted to be true, and now hypocritically are attacking me for for actually knowing why the law exists.
And no one is saying that they can’t make their laws as they like. You’ve so badly lost this argument, and you know it, that you’ve turned to blatant hypocrisy and to attacking strawmen. Again, to be clear, I’m arguing the law is clearly unjust and it would a travesty of justice that these people lose 10 years of their lives, and their children lose 10 years of their parents, because they made a mistake.
And no one is saying that they can’t make their laws as they like. You’ve so badly lost this argument, and you know it, that you’ve turned to blatant hypocrisy and to attacking strawmen. Again, to be clear, I’m arguing the law is clearly unjust and it would a travesty of justice that these people lose 10 years of their lives, and their children lose 10 years of their parents, because they made a mistake.
cute gish gallop.
back in reality, you want to take chances with jail time, visit other countries and break their laws about ordinance, if you think this is unique to T&C you’d be in for a fun time.
Beginning to think you have tacos for brains. gonna block you so I don’t have to waste more time on your bullshit.
The punishment is first and formost for being terminally stupid. It is high time to stop cuddling the idiots. They broke the law, they should serve. Or do you think that law is just a joke?
I mean, all they had to do was take the least amount of effort possible to ensure their luggage was clean.
If they couldnt muster the give a fuck to do that, and intentionally went to a country that they know has these laws…Then why should I muster enough of a fuck to wring my hands desperately over the situation their own lack of care and concern created?
i think this solves the problem of idiots and assholes thinking they can flout rules and get away with it, regardless of its malicious or willful incompetence.
The question is whether or not you honestly think sending these people to prison for 10 years makes any sense. It’s the same thing when some poor black kid gets caught with some weed and goes to jail. I’m not going to lose any sleep over it, and it’s easy to point at their actions and say they were “idiots” for doing drugs and carrying it around them, and that they were “flouting the rules” by having a controlled substance. But I also know an injustice when I see one.
And there is precisely zero indication that these people are “flouting the rules.” This would actually more likely apply more to the kid with some pot, because they know it’s against the law and they likely know they have it on them. Why would you bring a handful of ammo into a country on vacation with no gun or anything? Hell, even if you had a gun, a few rounds isn’t going to do much.
You’re trying to paint it in the worst possible light. Slow down, take a breath, and think about this rationally and objectively for a second. Does this really solve a problem? Is this a good thing for our society? At least one of these people is a parent, do you really think it’s great they lose their parent for 10+ years because of two bullets accidentally left in a bag? I just can’t fathom how anyone sees any justice in this. There’s no requirement that you think so vengefully.
LMFAO one round is enough to lose 12 years of your life, instead of you know, scanning, seeing they have one round, pulling them aside, taking it out. Yaknow, like what’s done with fluids.
Good thing all laws are ethical, moral and make sense. I imagine everybody on lemmy will agree that laws are the best thing ever that they never break.
yet when we talk about the morality surrounding selling stupid, violent and dangerous people firearms you get laser focused on literal (MISINTERPRETATION) of a 200yr old document. And your stupidity and support of said stupidity literally results in dead kids, by the thousands.
Tell me again about the morality regarding the cult of the bang bang, please.
“WOULD ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDRIIIIN” argument about someone who loses 12 years of their life and isn’t there to raise them after a single round is found in their baggage. Isn’t that what police do with potheads? Guess that’s justified too
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
how many times should this country watch stupid americans try it again and again before someone actually pays consequences?
and how many people do you think our country would forgive?
Ive travelled over i ternational borders with a dime bag in my luggage that i didnt even know was there until weeks after i got home. Dont be obtuse, there are lots of compartments in luggage whrre something as small as a bullet can hide even if you check the bag. Who the fuck gives a full cavity search to their luggage everyrime they use it?
“I’m an incompetent, careless and entitled asshole, so obviously I’m going to argue real hard for these other incompetent, careless, entitled assholes so I dont have to be held accountable for my own actions!”
look man just because you’re apparently a junkie fuckup who can’t control his sensitive items does NOT mean the rest of the world’s standards should be dropped to accommodate your idiocy.
Go read the person’s comments. I think most will agree that their behavior is dumb in every sense of the word. They need to know that. Not that anything will change, but at least they’ve been called out.
Both are equally tactless, and all what you are doing right now is mental gymnastics to feel superior to a guy that called you names as a reaction to you calling them names. You are the one who started not being civil here.
I travel with and without. I have bags specifically for firearms and ammo. That way when I travel somewhere that having just one round of 22lr might be an issue I use a bag that never had my firearm stuff. It eliminates the uncertainty.
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
They should be locked up, maximum sentence. American idiotic laws don’t apply, they are just like everyone else. Criminals that broke the law and smuggled ammo in. Ignorance is not an excuse of the law, American justice system loves that phrase.
Copyright infringement, DRM circumvention, and “hacking.”
See: Aaron Swartz
On January 6, 2011, Swartz was arrested by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) police on state breaking-and-entering charges, after connecting a computer to the MIT network in an unmarked and unlocked closet and setting it to download academic journal articles systematically from JSTOR using a guest user account issued to him by MIT. Federal prosecutors, led by Carmen Ortiz, later charged him with two counts of wire fraud and eleven violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, carrying a cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, asset forfeiture, restitution, and supervised release.
oh I can think of tens of thousands of people imprisoned for just holding a tiny bit of weed. bet some of them were mexican, canadian and otherwise foreign citizens, do you think that gave the local yokels pause in putting them in jail? charging them?
They are idiots, but you just said to abduct people beyond written law in their country and hold them against their will. I don’t think the UK will support that idea very much. They should face the time for the crimes they did, but “keep them locked up forever” is some backwards ass views clearly not focusing on prisons to be for recovery, just simply imprisonment for life… When no one was actually harmed from their actions. Really it shouldn’t be much of an issue. Pulled over for going over the speed limit but not harming anyone. “Keep them locked up forever”
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