yogthos,
@yogthos@mas.to avatar
aeva,
@aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place avatar

@yogthos oh dang the art museum is hiring for an entry level position

prefec2,
@prefec2@norden.social avatar

@yogthos Germany minimum wage is 12€ and will increase in the near future. Even though this is considered way too low and 14€ would be necessary to have basic needs covered.

yogthos,
@yogthos@mas.to avatar

@prefec2 also worth remembering that Germany has a much better social safety net where people don't have to worry about paying for things like healthcare out of pocket.

andresmh,
@andresmh@hci.social avatar

@yogthos I think this is the premise of the show Severance but for information work

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

@yogthos considering that the piece was made in 2008, and minimum wage is still at US$7.25/hr fifteen years later, I don't know if it counts as "effective."

https://www.blakefallconroy.com/minimum-wage-machine.html

Quenby,

@evan @yogthos I think it effectively communicates the message. I don't think an art piece is capable of passing laws though.

idlestate,
evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

@idlestate @yogthos a big step!

aeva,
@aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place avatar

@evan @yogthos I can't help but wonder if the museum guards had to keep shooing away homeless people from the free money machine, that seems like something museum guards would do

kkarhan,

@yogthos Meanwhile, #Germany's #MinimumWage is €12/hr, but even #ALDI pays €14/hr.

Oh and did I mention that paid vacation [24 days/year], paid sick leave [up to 6 weeks/year] and paid parental leave as well as afforcable healthcare are non-negotiable minimums per law?

#JustSaying that #Unionization works and even the non-#unionized benefit from it...

libroraptor,
@libroraptor@mastodon.nz avatar

@yogthos I would be very impressed if it works that way, after seeing so many kids playing tycoon games and clicker games for far less than minimum wage and calling it fun.

Roblox especially is such a fascinating training ground for servile labour.

What's different? Maybe only that one of them is gamified. I bet it'd be different if the penny dispensing rate were erratic, sometimes giving nothing, sometimes giving a whole dollar or two. But the same average rate. Sound familiar?

miki,
@miki@dragonscave.space avatar

@yogthos Funnily enough, many people outside NY (and the US in general) would kill for such a machine. I have a somewhat-well-paying job in Poland, the pay here is pretty respectable by our standards, and I’m barely making more than this machine would give me, and this is in a somewhat developed EU country.

yogthos,
@yogthos@mas.to avatar

@miki you have to account for purchasing power, cost of living in NYC is significantly higher than anywhere in Poland

vereda,

@yogthos acoording to numbeo, one would need around 2,983.6$ (14,475.3R$) in Sao Paulo to maintain the same standard of life that one can have with 9,500.0$ in New York, NY. So, it's 218% more expensive there. Meanwhile, our hourly rate is 1.23$ (6R$). So, NY is 218% more expensive, but the minimum wage is 486% greater. @miki has a solid point even lacking data.

miki,
@miki@dragonscave.space avatar

@vereda @yogthos This also depends on what you want to do with your money. Locally-sourced products and services, think food and rent, are usually cheaper in places where salaries are lower, but this is much less true about flights, technology, cars and such. A programmer in Silicon Valley and a programmer in Nairobi might both spend 95% of their respective salaries on food, rent, medical expenses, schooling for their children etc, but the extra 5% in San Francisco will get you a top-of-the-line MacBook and a Tesla, where that same 5% in Nairobi will get you an used Dell laptop from 3 years ago and a mopet. Even better, if you make senior developer money in the US, live like a junior developer or worse and save up the difference, you can then move to a poorer country, perhaps the country you came from, and that difference will get you a long, long way, even though that money wouldn't be enough for three months' rent in California. This difference is much bigger for people who earn a lot, but it is still there, regardless of your level of income.

yogthos,
@yogthos@mas.to avatar

@miki @vereda this doesn't apply to people on minimum wage however, because they often can't even afford basic necessities in US.

40% of the population can't afford a $400 unexpected expense. Meanwhile, 37% of the population now works two full time jobs.

The reality of the situation is that minimum wage isn't even livable in US.

https://fortune.com/2023/05/23/inflation-economy-consumer-finances-americans-cant-cover-emergency-expense-federal-reserve/

https://www.denver7.com/news/national/more-americans-report-being-over-employed-by-working-2-full-time-jobs

miki,
@miki@dragonscave.space avatar

@yogthos @vereda I still know Americans who barely make anything and own new-ish iPhones. Unthinkable here.

yogthos,
@yogthos@mas.to avatar

@miki @vereda clearly they're making more than nearly half the population who are literally living paycheck to paycheck without any savings.

vereda,

deleted_by_author

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  • toxidrone,

    @vereda @miki @yogthos a couple decades ago you could maybe say that mobile phones were a "luxury". Today they are a necessity.

    miki,
    @miki@dragonscave.space avatar

    @toxidrone @vereda @yogthos Mobile phones yes, but cheap Chinese Android knockoffs exist, and in places where wages are lower, they’re the standard.

    bytter,
    @bytter@fosstodon.org avatar

    @yogthos @miki @vereda actually imho raising minimal wage is temporary, and LEDs to inflation increase, cuz companies increases the prices by raise % with safety factor
    Way better would be providing maximum wage (progressive taxes?), but it unfortunately seems complicated af to implement
    Idk how its described in scientific papers, just my thoughts

    yogthos,
    @yogthos@mas.to avatar

    @bytter @miki @vereda the actual solution has to be to eliminate private ownership of the means of production entirely and replace it with a mix of publicly owned companies and worker owned cooperatives.

    miki,
    @miki@dragonscave.space avatar

    @yogthos @bytter @vereda We also tried this here. My parents’ generation still remember how it was like, and it wasn’t pretty. You can’t enjoy capitalism unless you’ve been on the other side, as it were.

    yogthos,
    @yogthos@mas.to avatar

    @miki @bytter @vereda I grew up in USSR and I far prefer the communist system. I guess some people only care about themselves and have no qualms with rampant exploitation under capitalism as long as they got theirs.

    opendna,

    @miki @yogthos Yeah but Poland has a home ownership rate roughly 50% higher than the US. The median wage in Poland won't cover rent in New York.

    The US would have to hand out nearly 100 million homes to begin to make wage comparisons meaningful.

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