Cowbee,

Taxing billionaires will just get rolled back, the problem is Capitalism itself.

Collectivize the Means of Production.

NutWrench,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

For the FIRST time? Yeah, no. How about ALL the time?

jeffw,

Did you see a flaw in the analysis? Not sure what you mean

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

This is something Warren Buffet has been complaining about for years. It’s not exactly a new development.

jeffw,

He’s talked about not paying his fair share. I don’t recall him ever saying “billionaires literally pay a lower effective tax rate”.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

From 2012:

abcnews.go.com/…/warren-buffett-and-his-secretary…

“Buffett’s secretary since 1993, Debbie Bosanek, sat next to her boss just hours after being invited by the president to the State of the Union address, where the president made her the face of tax inequality in America.

Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent.”

jeffw,

Idk, I’m not seeing anything there that he acknowledged he paid a lower rate than the average American. He was just contrasting himself with one person. He didn’t say “rich people have a lower effective tax rate than everyone else”. He just says “I have a lower tax rate than this one other person”.

AeonFelis,

It means that methodologically collected data is less accurate than popular sentiment.

jaemo,

Not even our closest cousins would tolerate a member that hoarded bananas so. No, it would be fangs, and ripping and all sorts of face-eating, and a whole bunch of other stuff we should be taking inspiration from.

Skoobie,
@Skoobie@sh.itjust.works avatar

Tax the rich, the banks, and the churches. Then see if you still need anything from the normies.

brain_in_a_box,

Why would they? The rich, the banks, and the churches are the ones who get to choose who gets taxed.

fne8w2ah,

The moneyed class wet dream come true. 🤬🤬🤬

3volver,

LOL this isn’t going to last much longer. It’s like comedy at this point, what a trend. The system will break before they’re taxed appropriately.

figaro,

Doubtful

3volver,

So what do you see changing any time in the near future regarding this issue?

figaro,

It will be a tug of war between the right and the left, leaning slightly right on economic issues pretty much forever.

America is basically run by large corporations. I don’t see them just willingly changing course. We will get small wins here and there, but nothing drastic for a long time.

Edit - the spice must flow

Cowbee,

Capitalism naturally declines over time, that’s why America and other developed countries have expanded internationally via Imperialism in order to super-exploit the third world for super-profits. Capitalism cannot last forever, eventually third world countries will shake off US influence and the empire will crumble.

3volver,

AI and robotics are here, more people are seeing their futures stolen. If by “pretty much forever” you mean “about 5-10 years” then I agree. I said the system will break, I didn’t say I see them changing course.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

for the first time

Nobody ask about the long-term capital gains rate going back to Ronald Reagan’s '83 reform.

jeffw,

Not 100% sure but I imagine they’d count capital gains in the analysis. The full read in The NY Times was interesting but behind a paywall

Transtronaut,

I imagine they’d count capital gains in the analysis

lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/8544719

The NYTimes analysis is just about income taxes

Aren’t you contradicting yourself here?

jeffw,

Not really. Other forms of taxation significantly differ, whereas capital gains are taxed based on how much you made, like income.

cultsuperstar,

Trump has said if he’s elected he’ll lower the tax rate for the rich even more.

Rivalarrival,
tearsintherain,
@tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

That there are even billionaires, let alone multi-billionaires. It’s an immoral, unethical system that fundamentally exploited labor that allowed for this.

That productivity has gone up but wages have remained stagnant should boil everyone’s blood. All the wealth stolen and sent upwards into fewer and fewer hands. Legalized theft by way of capitalism.

Everythingispenguins,

But it isn’t for the first time. This has been happening for years

youtu.be/kXCGbAv8YPw

jeffw,

That analysis you linked isn’t about income taxes. The NYTimes analysis is just about income taxes. It is the first time, although the report is on data that’s a few years old

Everythingispenguins,

Yeah I know, it is about the total effective tax rate of various income levels. It clearly demonstrates how the ultra ultra wealthy are able to pay less tax. In theory we are supposed to be on a progressive tax system. In reality at a certain income level it becomes regressive. Just focusing on income tax regardless of the rate. Will never show a full picture. There are other taxes that everybody pays. It is much more telling to understand how the whole package works instead of just focusing on one part.

And that is without tax loopholes and evasions. The ultra wealthy have more than enough money to pay the accountants and tax lawyers needed to under report their income.

valid,
quindraco,

Once again, the problem is that the banks aren’t being taxed. The reason the billionaires don’t pay taxes is that they buy everything with money they borrow from the banks.

Badeendje,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Borrowing against assets should be income that cannot be offset by the debt.

quindraco,

You want to squints get rid of mortgages and thereby get rid of home ownership?

InternetCitizen2,

Interesting, but if we did a lot of what the billionaire do suddenly the spirit of the law might be more important than the letter.

Badeendje,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Good point… it might have come across like that… but that is for sure not what I meant.

A home is already taxed. An asset portfolio like stock only when realized. Borrowing against it should count as realizing the gains.

Or maybe better yet, we tax the whole portfolio like we do real estate against the value at the measuring point. Cause a portfolio is either something because it is used as collateral and thus taxed… or it’s nothing and cannot be borrowed against without realizing the gains.

StuffYouFear,

Sir, this is the internet. Well explained and reasonable responses are not welcome here.

Badeendje,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Ha! Jokes on you… I’m actually a cat masqueradeing as a person.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The problem is more that one person can control billions in assets, particularly when the staff that generates the revenue that gives these assets value are in poverty.

FiniteBanjo,

BREAKING NEWS: Republican voters still learning about the Trump Era Tax Reform 8 years later!

moitoi,
@moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Eat the riches!

Eol,

What the MSM considers normal regular American I consider upperclass. What they consider poor I consider normal. What they consider homeless is actually the new poor.

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, a whole lot of working folks are one missed paycheck from homelessness. I’m old enough to remember that it wasn’t always like this, if you were working you didn’t have nearly so much anxiety and exhaustion, you could afford to look after a kid or have the occasional holiday, maybe own a home. Not anymore. The rich are getting richer though.

tiefling,

I’ve watched some of my friends struggle with homelessness. They are amazing people with brilliant minds, but just got unlucky while working a dead end job. It’s fucking terrible.

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, it’s really messed up. And getting worse. I’m just not sure how we change it without violence though. Voting doesn’t fucking help. And, like me, most of the people who are hurting don’t want violent change. Rightly, because like capitalism, revolution hurts a lot of people. But it feels like society is a balloon and the rich are squeezing it and wondering when it’ll pop. It’s hard to predict what’s gonna happen but based on the way things have been I’d say worse.

Twelve20two,

A general, mass strike would probably never happen. But it should. More strikes in general. I feel like there are still things to try before going full Joker

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