gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

If I wanted to avoid escalation by militant Islam in the , I wouldn’t start by making a quarter million able-bodied men homeless & motherless with nothing to lose.

Old_IT_geek,

@gimulnautti surely they will get gainful employment building the soon to be Israeli occupied Gaza apartment blocks with sea views. You know, the ones that Palestinians will never be allowed to visit once built.

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

Effing coward: Lies, blocks & deletes post where my non-jewishness clearly becomes an issue about holding an opinion about the topic of or the history of Israel.

and free effing Israel from the likes of people like this!

gimulnautti, (edited )
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

But now that he finally resorted to lying, it’s very clear he hasn’t been arguing anything related to facts for a while, nor engaged in a discussion about them.

He, and so many more like him are arguing a NARRATIVE.

This might be why is so furiously discredited by those in power. By recognising the power of narrative to yield real-world power, things can be seen in new light. It’s a threat.

Facts? Non-scientist generally don’t think about facts. They think about narratives.

claralistensprechen3rd,

@gimulnautti Honest answer to

Honest question: what would you do to rescue your men, women, and children who’d been taken hostage? Or to prevent another brutal slaughter of 1200 of your citizens by a known terrorist org that lives next door.Do you believe that being reasonable with a org that openly calls for your complete eradication is the solution?

I'd begin by refraining from stealing their land burning their crops bulldozing their houses and olive trees as if their land belonged to me when it doesn't. Not stealing what belongs to your neighbor is a good start.

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@claralistensprechen3rd I keep hearing this number, 1200 connected to brutal slaughter.

Let’s take a look at that number:

32000 Palestinians dead since Oct 7th,
which makes for 5333,3 dead per month,
1333,3 dead Palestinians PER WEEK, and going on…

I wish people would stop pretending nothing has happened since Oct 7th?

And you’re right. In modern times terrorist organisations have been defeated by cutting into their support, not military action that increases it.

claralistensprechen3rd,

@gimulnautti Numbers don't change who started it first. It was the Settlers.

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@claralistensprechen3rd @claralistensprechen3rd I think the numbers matter more than who started it.

Otherwise the value of a human life depends on who started it.

thetechtutor,
@thetechtutor@me.dm avatar

@gimulnautti Honest question: what would you do to rescue your men, women, and children who’d been taken hostage? Or to prevent another brutal slaughter of 1200 of your citizens by a known terrorist org that lives next door.

Do you believe that being reasonable with a #terrorst org that openly calls for your complete eradication is the solution?

What if it were your children that had been slaughtered or kidnapped?

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@thetechtutor How well did that go in Northern Ireland?

History seems to point to two answers:

In modern times terrorist organisations are almost never defeated by military actions, but by political solutions that offer the people a better alternative. The people know these are madmen, but the madman is the only one speaking for them so there’s no choice.

In old times brutal empires took hundreds of years to crush repeating rebellions and eradicated whole ethnic groups in the process.

thetechtutor,
@thetechtutor@me.dm avatar

@gimulnautti Three different peace plans were offered to Yasser #Arafat and to those #Palestinian leaders who came after him. One of those, broken by #Clinton , gave the Palestinians about 95% of everything they’d requested.

They walked away.

So, if you have them, please share your specific ideas for this centuries old feud between two closely related tribes.

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@thetechtutor 1933, british promised 33% of Palestine to the zionist movement. 1948 they were given 56%. By 1967 they controlled 79%.

Yet in 1918, a mere 6% of Palestine was Jewish.

All this in about 100 years. It is not ancient, it is recent. Of course they’re going to want their homes back. Many still carry the keys to homes that were taken by force from them.

You talk of 1200 people dead. You know what that is to Palestinians right now? The number of people dying in Gaza in a week.

thetechtutor,
@thetechtutor@me.dm avatar

@gimulnautti I see you’ve avoided answering my question about possible solutions and have instead discussed only what you’ve decided the problem is.

With utter disregard for any historical fact, I should note. Here are links to timelines to actual data:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_peace_process

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

This is when I know I’m not dealing with a good faith partner in discussion and debate but someone who just wants to demonize and

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@thetechtutor And like clockwork, here comes the: ”I have the facts around here” claim of authority, and linking of documents that point out exactly the same numbers and same process.

This and many others like you, have led me to the conclusion that blindness to the facts right in front of you is the real issue.

Go ahead, pick the facts, ignore the Nakba, ignore the surging of far right in Israeli politics.

It’s the increase of Israel that remains the problem, not the existence of it.

Edelruth,
@Edelruth@mastodon.online avatar

@gimulnautti

If you want to keep them violent, so that you have an ongoing excuse to keep killing them, yes you would.

Especially if you are "clearing land".

gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@Edelruth It is almost as if you were writing the recruitment pampflets yourself.

The parasitic relationships of ultra-right political movements across cultural borders are fascinating.

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