fossrob

@fossrob@fosstodon.org

Linux professional, foss and technology enthusiast.

Dog dad 🐕️ and feline 🐈️ fosterer.

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centos, to random
@centos@fosstodon.org avatar

Troy Dawson is back yet again, this time joined by Carl George to present the state of EPEL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WP5FCY44jc

fossrob,

@centos "If you're a Fedora maintainer, just create a branch for EPEL it's super easy, barely an inconvenience." 🤣🫶🏻 @carlwgeorge

bookwar, to random
@bookwar@fosstodon.org avatar

I have my 5 year anniversary in Red Hat today.

Funny how that's the longest time I ever worked in one company, yet by Red Hat's measures I could still be considered a freshman.

fossrob,

@bookwar happy hatterversary! 🥳

fossrob, to RedHat

https://www.lpi.org/blog/2023/07/30/ibm-red-hat-and-free-software-an-old-maddogs-view/

"An old maddog’s view" on #redhat #ibm #opensource #rhel #clonewars

"Red Hat and IBM are making their sources available to all those who receive their binaries under contract. That is the GPL."

fossrob,

@birnim "desperate damage control bullshit and shilling" you say?

From Jon “maddog” Hall on behalf of Red Hat?

lol

fossrob,

@ajorg that has always been one of the conditions of being a Red Hat customer.

Seems to me that like any business Red Hat is free to dictate it's terms of business, as long as it doesn't violate any of the various software licenses (and it seems to be the view of people in the know that it doesn't).

If it's against someones own interpretation of a "social contract" well those people are free to reject those terms and go elsewhere so not sure why that's a problem.

fossrob, (edited )

@ajorg it's not like they say outright "you can't share the source code", they are saying that if you redistribute their product they reserve the right to stop providing it to you (as I understand it).

IANAL but looks like it's a combination of the Enterprise Agreement, Product and Service Appendices and End User Licence Agreement (https://www.redhat.com/licenses/).

In the product and service appendix I think it's "1.2 g) Unauthorized Use of Subscription Services" that's probably relevant?

1/3

fossrob, (edited )

@ajorg the Enterprise Agreement hasn't changed since 2021 and the End User License Agreement since 2019. The Product and Service Appendix has changed this year, but if I go back to 2022 on archive.org "1.2 g)" hasn't changed since then.

So the recent announcement / controversy hasn't coincided with a change in terms and conditions. AFAIK it's always been more or less this way but you'd have to see how far back you can go to confirm.

2/3

fossrob,

@ajorg Who's freedoms are they subverting? Those granted by what, the GPL? Nope, they're not doing anything of the sort.

What cultural norms? The open source culture of collaboration and contribution? Giving back to the community you build on? They're still doing all that. More so than any other open source company.

3/3

fossrob,

@richardfontana thank you! Would be really handy if all the legal agreements were just in a git repo to make it much easier to see when / if something had changed! 🤔

@ajorg

mattb, to random
@mattb@hachyderm.io avatar

Watching Memento. I have never seen this movie.

fossrob,

@mattb just remember Sammy Jankis...

mattb, to random
@mattb@hachyderm.io avatar

3 DVDs for 90p in the charity shop. Bargain!

fossrob,

@mattb you see I have this condition...

fossrob, to random

This week I discovered Google docs has a pageless mode and 🤯 because of course if you're using it just to collaborate with others online only and are never going to print it why would you constrain yourself to A4 🤣

Wonder if this will be a generational thing that will go away with printing documents...

fossrob,

@omenos @bookwar oh I totally didn't mean it as a comment on the technical merits of the feature! (I do love that it immediately went in that direction though!) 🤓 It just surprised me that I had never thought about it. Despite having had web pages for a fair few years now 👴 it has never occurred to me that google docs/ms word/libreoffice writer would ever not have pages! 🤣

fossrob,

@omenos @bookwar I often get worked up and OCD over where to split paragraphs / tables across pages in docs that were never ever going to be read offline and that just seems really silly now 😊

Just like there are memes about how "kids today" don't know what an analogue modem sounds like I wonder if the concept of pages in a document might also go that way too? 🤔😋

fossrob,

@omenos @bookwar Yes!! The hours I've probably wasted moving the page break to the beginning of the paragraph, then changing it back because it now left too much empty space on the previous page, making the font a little smaller just to see if that annoying spill over line would then fit and yes what if I just make the margins a little bit smaller!?🤦🤣

Yeah I've noticed it's been iffy in both docs and sheets lately and don't think it's always been that noticeable? 🤷🤔

fossrob,

@Conan_Kudo @omenos @bookwar oh wow interesting! I can get that. Do wiki pages feel the same or is it just in a word processor where you don't like it? I did immediately make sure to enable the outline and use headings properly so there's a table of contents.

passthejoe, to RedHat
@passthejoe@ruby.social avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    fossrob,

    @mairin @vwbusguy @cloudguy @passthejoe for a user? Outside of say support for a different architecture no I don't think so. If your company is using a 1:1 rebuild, standard x86_64, on certified hardware and then just installing certified on RHEL software on it then beyond the zero cost there can be no added value, only risk if you ever run into a situation where you DO need support, and in the case that security patches will always have a non-zero delay over RHEL.

    fossrob,

    @mairin @vwbusguy @cloudguy @warthog9 @passthejoe I've seen it many times that it's just: "oh my expensive proprietary software says they support Rocky and I don't have to pay for Rocky". A lot of people don't care about details like what a 1:1 rebuild is. We've had "senior architects" from large vendors tell us they support Rocky, and when we bring up RHEL or Alma they reluctantly say they can support RHEL too, but not Alma that's different! (months ago BEFORE the change to no longer be 1:1) 🤦

    fossrob,

    @mairin @vathpela @vwbusguy @cloudguy @warthog9 @passthejoe aww man been meaning to watch the panel but not sure I can take it 😔 Already I notice that there's only one on the panel wearing a shirt loudly marketing their own distro :eyeroll:

    fossrob,

    @vathpela @mairin @vwbusguy @cloudguy @warthog9 @passthejoe you're right, of course it's not a serious issue just curious to me in the context of reducing Red Hat's work to "marketing" while marketing your distro...

    fossrob,

    @vathpela @mairin @vwbusguy @cloudguy @warthog9 @passthejoe at least Benny was reasonably neutral, the other 3 are openly hostile to RH and show heavy biases for their own interests.

    fossrob,

    @vathpela @vwbusguy @cloudguy @warthog9 @passthejoe

    Can see why @mairin needed frequent breaks.

    Oracle holding up Java & MySQL as how they (Oracle) are somehow more open source than RH? 🤔

    Oh and ZFS license is apparently just as good as the GPL no need to change it 🤦🏻

    fossrob,

    @vathpela @vwbusguy @cloudguy @warthog9 @passthejoe @mairin

    Then suggesting RH would trawl compatibility reports from rebuild users that aren't made anonymous, for the specific purpose of going on to auditing them, and then having ORACLE chime in suggesting that it shouldn't be ruled out?

    ORACLE...

    Suggesting RH could be the bad guy in some heavily hypothetical situation to force people to pay for RH...

    O R A C L E 😳

    Just... wow.

    ajorg, to RedHat

    I've wondered if I'm taking too opinionated a stance on the Red Hat source code thing...

    But no. I really do think that if you profit off the work of thousands of people you didn't pay, you should embrace the reality that someone else might profit off of your work too. Embrace. Not merely accept and not only tolerate. Like #redhat did for so long, so successfully.

    Yes, even if they don't seem to be adding value. They are, but not for you.

    That's the world I want to live in.

    #opensource

    fossrob,

    @ajorg I'd love to see Red Hat do a complete about face and switch to the Canonical/Ubuntu model. Provide RHEL for free. Source AND binaries, with 5Y updates. They'd loose some significant revenue but it would arguably eliminate all of this drama.

    But they've kinda done that with CentOS Stream. It's been so poorly communicated and is so poorly understood that few realise it though. I've only fully appreciated that since watching @bookwar 's presentation https://youtu.be/yf1wO5Iu8uY

    fossrob,

    @ajorg @bookwar well yes exactly. That's part of the value of RHEL that a commercial 1:1 rebuild profits from, that RH does not want to support.

    To me RH are embracing and encouraging others to profit off of their work. CentOS Stream is the RHEL code, which is a result of the work they pay thousands of people to do.

    Seems to me the objection by some that it's not RHEL is not about the code, it's because they can't profit off of the huge amount of work RH puts into those certifications etc.

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