Murderous terrorist organization that mercilessly raped, slaughtered, beheaded and cruelly violated Israeli families, some wrapped in each other's arms, along with more than 1400 innocent people "says Israel's strikes on refugee camp kill more than 195 people"
I don't believe them. Neither should you. There's no room for truth in animals of their kind. Main goal of their media propaganda is to blame Israel and always for something spectacular.
@SteveThompson I read that some Palestinian numbers on overall civilian victims (the 7000) are credible, as they come from a reliable health source, and even though Hamas are notorious liars
@Properganda@SteveThompson did you read the NYT article? it says much more than Biden not trusting the numbers, and I read a similar assessment of the Gazan health ministry's reliability in an OKish German (journalistic!) magazine
@supergrobi@Properganda If you're talking about Human Rights Watch, they have an agenda. I wouldn't trust them but I would trust what the article says before that content. It's obvious the journalist is making an attempt to seek to disqualify the Biden commentary if it is out there, and she found it.
So basically, she took the U.S. government stance, which is accurate, like it or not, and muddied the story with the viewpoint of an organization with an agenda. She did the terrorists' homework.
@supergrobi@SteveThompson There are undoubtedly many civilian casualties as in any war/conflict, but what should be clear is #Hamas#Iran started this war & should not be trusted, legitimized, but condemned & stopped —not just for the sake of Israel, but for the sake civilization & humanity.
Seen this before, Hamas cannot be trusted. Same for hiding weapons etc. in schools, hospitals and mosques. A bunch of murderous thugs that is holding the Palestinians hostage with dreams of a fundamentalist future. They are simply incompatible with a solution, a death cult.
@xs4me2@Properganda@SteveThompson multiple sources claim that thousands of children died in Gaza. Please Israel, stick to "Eye for an Eye" and stop this!
"Gaza becomes ‘a graveyard for children’ as Israel intensifies airstrikes" https://wapo.st/3tXWgqx
It needs to stop… there simply is no future in massacre, hate and killing. I doubt however if Hamas wants peace. They are a proxy for Iran wanting total destruction of the state of Israel. The Palestines to them are mere pawns…
@xs4me2#Hamas#Hezbollah#Iran#Putin clearly DO NOT want peace! These are bloodthirsty authoritarian tyrants & fascists, who want to topple the West & #RuleOfLaw in order to ruthlessly rule without accountability.
@xs4me2@supergrobi@Properganda It's going to stop. As soon as Israel determines that the Hamas terrorist government has been decimated enough to where it is safe for them and for non-combatant Palestinians to return to Gaza.
@SteveThompson@xs4me2@Properganda the question is how many Gazan civilians will be killed along the way until IDF reaches that goal. It seems to be way too many already.
Despite any accusations trying to blame Israel for random, indiscriminate bombings, Israel is targeting Hamas, not innocent civilians. Whereas Hamas has a reputation of using women and children as shields, and targeting them mercilessly.
Israel exists as a democracy following the rules of war and that, sadly, means civilian casualties. Hamas is a terrorist propaganda machine entrenched as the government of Gaza, designed for mass casualties.
"The problem though is that this hate, this killing and pain will lead to revenge and more killing...."
It will only lead to even more egregious deadly incidents, esp. if Israel is denied its right to strive to put a stop to it. Threatening words won't do it. Terrorists take verbal threats as dares, and challenges. And so it goes.
@SteveThompson@xs4me2@Properganda Hey @pepita , having read your knowledgeable answer with the problems of a 2-state-solution, I wonder what your opinion is?
I'd think there must be an alternative to playing the game of Hamas, with Netanyahu following the inhumane logic of war that Hamas certainly has calculated for.
I'm not talking about appeasement, but what e.g. Obama did with his drone war instead of full-scale war with boots on the ground and thousands of dead civilians.
@supergrobi@SteveThompson@xs4me2@Properganda not optimistic it will not just continue to be a permanently unsolved problem... I see no solution without both rotating leadership on all sides and this new leadership agreeing to redraw borders, and move some people, to something more rational that allows both parties basic dignity and security. (Western "no ethnic cleansing" absolutism is in the way here.) how to get there I know not. best outsiders can do is be gently supportive.
@pepita@SteveThompson@xs4me2@Properganda 1/2 As the obviously Last Hippie Standing in this thread, I just cannot believe that killing thousands of civilians can be the right thing to do.
Not only because of the Palestinians, but also because of Israel's security: this is exactly what Hamas wants Israel to do, to fuel the conflict further.
Answering bombings and killings with more bombings and killings in an even larger scale will fall back on Israel, just like Netanyahu's hardliner policy.
@SteveThompson@pepita@xs4me2@Properganda 1/3 That's an interesting conversation you had with @MisuseCase .
So what do you think the Hamas monsters expected Israel to do? I don't think they are stupid monsters.
You didn't answer on when you'd think that civil casualty numbers become disproportionate, with that silence sounding a bit like anything that Israel's national emergency government now does is per se right, or questioning it would be taking sides with Hamas.
So I went looking at ...
Turns out that opposition leader Lapit says:
"it’s still necessary to “take the extremists out of the government of extremists,” and pointed to Ben Gvir and Smotrich, saying their presence in the security cabinet is “no way to make decisions.”"
There was another poll earlier saying that Israelis want Netanyahu to go ...
@supergrobi@pepita@xs4me2@Properganda@MisuseCase You don't need polls. If you've been watching Israel these last nine months you've seen the thousands of people protesting Netanyahu across Israel.
The resistance to his right wing cabinet has been obvious. In that sense, the Hamas attack was a godsend, distracting attention from his problems. He should go ASAP... the right wing settler policy is going nowhere... but into trouble...
Israel must be united if it’s going to succeed against Hamas, Hezbollah, & all the dark forces behind them. Netanyahu doesn’t have enough confidence of both, the #Israeli people & allies. IMHO, if Bibi prioritized #israel & #Jews over his political & personal fortunes, he would step down. Not likely, from everything we’ve witnessed.
With this right wing government, the settler policies and his authoritarian tendencies, he is a big part of the problem. Only voting him out will help. His victory was a very narrow one, btw...
Many challenges indeed, the future of Israel at stake even.
In my view, the only way out would be a 2-state solution, one without religious fanatics in the core...
As I said, in war, the first victim is the truth... Hamas are a bunch of thugs, they killed more than 1500 innocent people in a pogrom of unseen dimensions. They are using the Palestinian case for their own distorted cause and as an Iranian proxy...
The Israeli settler policies of the right wing government are not helping at all and the only long term solution is a 2 state one... which the Palestinians turned down in the 40s...
He did... but now the secular discussion of 2 states has somehow turned into a religious one with right wing conservative Jews and fundamentalist Muslims... what a mess...
The truth is this needs to stop somehow, but how...
Hamas needs to be taken out. As long as the Palestinian civilians will be able to see this too, that will succeed. The more collateral damage, the more hate, and the spiral will continue...
You can't win a religious war, which is what Hamas made this into... you can´t kill all Hamas as the world will not let you, so the hate and killing will continue....
mowing the grass as the elegant term for limiting the power of resistance is what has been going on for the last years...
@xs4me2@SteveThompson@Properganda Hamas must go but how Israel responds matters too. It will take friends of Israel whose loyalty is unquestioned to advise restraint and calibration. Thankfully Joe Biden is such a man. A 50 year friendship has value in this case. I think Israel trusts him to offer advice.
Let's hope so, because the only solution will be one without war, I dare not even say peace... a form of coinciding might be too much to ask, hence a 2-state solution with a brick wall... as long as the killing stops...
BUT.... it will not work with religious fanatics...
Not to diminish his loss and not that he didn't say this but it is an unrealistic view, a 'fantastic' one:
“All the families there were civilians who were looking for a simple life,” he told The Washington Post by phone. “We thought we lived in a safe place.”
He's wrong on 'all.' Even residents of Israel kibitzes attacked by Hamas had safe rooms, so perhaps he thought because his terrorist government had tunnels underground residents were 'safe' above ground?
@supergrobi@xs4me2@Properganda So the three journalists who wrote this story, some obviously sympathetic, managed to find a guy who lost everything and everyone. And by publishing his unique story in Washington Post it suggests that all Gazans are experiencing his story and the world needs to know.
It is either an expose or propaganda. Can it be both? Perhaps. But that it borders on propaganda one would have to look at possible loyalties of journalists for bias and other influential factors.
The one story contributor is a "Gaza-based freelance photographer' who "deals with documenting daily aspects of life in Palestine, preparing images for printing and use on the Web, and preferring social reportage dedicated to the documentation of his people conditions." So he's on a mission.
Seems mass media outlets were using Hamas propagandist photographers without knowing. They used some freelancers 'for the first time' to scoop the events.
"Media watchdog says it was just 'raising questions' with insinuations about photographers and Hamas"
The thing is, like with Daesh, media coverage is part of the propaganda Hamas uses. This is not free press nor journalism, it is covering and documenting terrorist action to spread fear and terror.
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