The history is actually super interesting, but it goes back so far we don't really know for sure. The Hebrew Bible claims the Israelites left from Mesopotamia (Modern day Iraq) and conquered Canaan (Modern day Israel) around 1260 BC. Though some archeological records seem to suggest the Israelites might have actually descended from the indigenous Canaan people.
Sometimes around 1200 BC people from Aegean (Modern day Greece) settled in Philistine (Modern day Gaza strip), which could be argued is the origin of Palestine. But Islamic Palestinians wouldn't come about until much later during the Muslim conquest of The Levant (Modern day Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria), in 635 AD, about 25 years after the founding of Islam.
This isn't a commentary on who I think has rightful claim to the land, but if you're gonna make arguments like the above, it pays to know at least a little history or you just end up looking stupid af.
@malwaretech what you wrote for me is funny.
Philosophically for me it makes no sense "claiming a land", the land is for no one to claim, it is something we really don't own (some day we'll die and we'll become the land, and when we die we don't carry anything with us)
Historically it also make no sense: no one really own a land, if this was so most people from America should give back the land. And in Europe too, we should split ourselves in different people from which we came.
@malwaretech Irvine Finkel in his book “the first ghosts” (which is a cracking book, even better if you listen to him narrating it) makes a strong case that the people in the book of samual knew about Mesopotamia, and raising ghosts to have chats. (Saul specifically)
In “Ark before Noah” he makes a different case, but that’s harder to fit into 500 chars.
@malwaretech He's probably referring to the controversial theory that contemporary Israelis are descendants of the Khazars, not of the original Jews, and didn't realize that the Khazars were in Asia, not in Europe.
With that period you're going to be running up against the late Bronze Age Collapse period.
Lots of different groups were moving around at that period, so keeping track of who went where and how they arrived (by Sea as with the "Sea People") and by land migrations.
Super confusing plus groups can move and replace, merge into existing communities or expropriate what was already there as theirs.
As evidence emerges the narrative changes, the details can be hugely significant and change what we thought we knew 🙂🤷♂️
I think what they are referring to is the view that the current conflict has its roots in extant land rights (not ancient historical claims) that started with the Zionist movement (secular European Jewry) settling in Palestine in the early 20th century and displacing the local population (who, by then, were self identifying as "Palestinian". In this view the current conflict is yet another case of the powerful "European" culture viewing others as disposable according to its needs.
@malwaretech there is a seed of truth which is that the Ashkenazi Jews dominated Israeli politics for a long time to the exclusion of the Mizrahim. But that’s… very much not the same thing.
Someone heard the complex political dynamics of the early kibbutznik movement (which was problematic for those reasons) and extrapolated very wrongly.
@malwaretech history matters but had never been a deciding factor, that is power and those backing Israel know it. Heck they invented it.
Ask indigenous people anywhere.
The have been efforts to change this with international law but those efforts seem to be falling apart as chaos rises. Darkness beckons for everyone including oppressors, only the matte and timing is likely to differ.
@malwaretech modern day Jewish Isrealis are a mixture of Ashkenazi (from Europe), Mizrahi/Sephardi Jews (from countries such as Yemen and Morocco) and Ethiopian Jews. Many now have grandparents who originate from multiple countries.
@malwaretech I'm 100% convinced that Israelites were originally a Canaanite subgroup; there's strong linguistic evidence in favor of this (Hebrew is more similar to Canaanite languages than to other Semitic ones), and some conjecture that the first proto-Israelite settlements can be identified archaeologically by the absence of pig bones (showing an early Pork taboo). 1/2
@malwaretech "As a Jew"... who also has trouble spelling Israel... uh huh.Guys! Guys! I just heard the most amazing thing about the history of Israel! I bet you never knew how it was created! Talk about selecting for a simple-minded audience.
@malwaretech I think that the only proper response to this is ALL OF US ARE REALLY FROM AFRICA! It’s just a minor detail about which of us went where when.
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