osc,

I think there's a scenario that has been barely discussed involving #Threads and the #Fediverse, but it's an interesting one

Mosseri has said that Threads users will be able to migrate their account

Let's assume Threads is a failure and #Meta decides to kill it

By Meta's standard, even if Threads is a failure, it will probably have dozens of millions of active users

Even if a portion of them wants to stay in the Fediverse, they will need to migrate somewhere else

1/2

osc,

In this scenario, a significant share of #Threads users would migrate to non-Meta parts of the Fediverse, such as Mastodon

I don't wish for Threads to fail. But in this scenario, so many users sticking to the #Fediverse would still be an improvement, number wise, compared to the current dynamics.

2/2

vitriolix,
@vitriolix@mastodon.social avatar

@osc isn't wishing threads to fail at the expense of the fediverse a good thing?

osc,

@vitriolix If Threads fails, a significant share of its users will just stop using the Fediverse

In which world is this a good thing to see the active users count of the Fediverse massively drop?

vitriolix,
@vitriolix@mastodon.social avatar

@osc because not all players in the fediverse have good intentions and I'd put money on Threads being one of those

osc,

@vitriolix What baffles me the most with takes like this is how they never, ever, take into account Threads users themselves

It's almost always about some extremely speculative grand moral statement

vitriolix,
@vitriolix@mastodon.social avatar

@osc Meta is not a good actor with their users interests at heart. This is not some "extremely speculative grand moral statement"

osc,

@vitriolix Yes, it is

Meta is a shitty company that treats its users poorly

But it says literally nothing factual about its intentions toward the Fediverse

osc,

Multiple people have responded that they actively wish for Threads to fail

Wishing such a blow to the Fediverse is a hell of a take

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@osc well, they see it as a threat to the fediverse, so it's not really what they mean, i think. I agree the arguments i have seen to justify that fear are not really compelling, but they are not entirely baseless either.

osc,

@tshirtman All of this is almost a textbook example of a moral panic

People speculate from very little information, they conflate their opinions with facts, and end up with some catastrophic conclusion that push them to take irrational, drastic actions

This is a very uninteresting debate

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@osc i do agree with that, i see a lot of very thinly justified panic, and calls to arms that are potentially harmful or at best ineffective, because they are not based on clearly identified problems, but rather on the general sense of a vital threat.

It is concerning, yes.

osc,

@tshirtman I'm assuming this is what happens when people live in extremely ideological cognitive worlds

They see everything through one, single ideological lense, regardless of wether it makes sense or not

I don't trust Meta, but it's not a reason to invent facts

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@osc well, ideological or not, this is tribe behavior to me, meta is identified as the enemy, so the thing we are running from, so when they get close, this is war. This requires a very simplified vision of what Meta is, we know all there is to know about it, it's bad, and we have the recipes, yes, meta is a bad company, so that's all there is to know about it.

But even accepting it as the enemy, even going to war with it, requires understanding it and preparing the playbook.

HistoPol, (edited )
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@tshirtman

#DeleteFacebook
#DeleteInstagram

(1/n)

Things are WAY worse than most people think. It is not just about the commercialization. It is about individual security.
#Meta put(s) a huge number of users lives in danger.

This is what an audit at #Facebook called the #CambridgeAnalyticaSummit found (longer thread, just look at the summary about #Zuckerberg and then click on the external thread link):

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110536828149575634

@osc

stonedonkey,

@HistoPol @tshirtman @osc your link doesn't seem to work for me

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@stonedonkey

Happens sometimes.
Edited, re-posted, verified.
Works for me on #Toots!
Please try again..

@tshirtman @osc

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@HistoPol @osc I know Meta did terrible, terrible things, even arguably helping at least one genocide. Yes, it’s a harmful company.

That doesn’t say anything about the arm it can do to the Fediverse, with intents or not (that doesn’t matter), and how blocking the thread app helps.

It’s a very knee-jerk reaction, for understandable reasons, but things are not so simple indeed, and we need to understand the actual threats to the fediverse, if we want to have a chance at preventing them.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@tshirtman

(1/n)

Thanks for pointing this out.

I am not a data engineer, but I do work with data.

Quite some years ago, there was fieldcstudy by either a university or a #US intelligence agency, I guess rather the former, because I think I learnt about it in a podcast of The Economist.

The aim: to learn about people's relations just from their phone-call data.
The researchers were dismayed in the end, as they were able to forecast people's relationship...

@osc

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@HistoPol @osc yeah, the question is more fuzzy to me about how easy it is to currently fetch/maintain a global social graph of the fediverse, i think you have to either talk to each server’s API, being careful about hitting rate limits, or scraping the instance webpages, though i’m sure a motivated actor could certainly build a relatively up to date version with smart refresh rates and distributed workers.

It is certainly something to keep in mind at least for activists.

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@HistoPol @osc if anything, the arrival of Meta/Threads should be a great opportunity to explain to people that no the fediverse is not a private space, it might be more or less "safe", because moderation prevents most attack in this place, but it doesn’t keep the information in, any company, gov entity or even individual can create for modest costs, an instance that will archive everything happening in the fediverse, and be able to search that DB.

It is not a private space, it never was.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@tshirtman

That is a good point.

@osc

Jeramee,
@Jeramee@mastodon.social avatar

@HistoPol @tshirtman @osc
Isn't that true or any social media?

It reminds me of this story. An anti-coup protestor's mom was arrested in Thailand bc she replied "jaa" (yeah, whatever) to a private message from one of her son's friends. Thai police hacked into fb to access her private messages, and then levied bogus charges against her.

(And f*** those authoritarian wannabe fascists.)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-politics/thai-activists-mother-charged-under-royal-insult-laws-over-facebook-post-idINKCN10C230

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@tshirtman @osc

(2/n)

...by just knowing which number called which numbers when, how frequently.

At that point, the data was "pseudo-anonymized," I'd say.

Now, let's add names, addresses, social-security numbers of just some an that anonymity is gone.

This is just phone numbers.
Look at the data-grab of the #Threads app, illegal in the EU at present, but just as an example.

If you set up your account on #Mastodon with a new, secure e-mail address, then you can stay "anonymous,"...

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@tshirtman @osc

(3/n)

...provided that you dilo not provide address data etc. in your posts.

If you connect with one or two, say family members, on the sites, then you are already compromised IMO.

has perfected mass surveillance. is close.

Once they combine it with , which will happen within a year IMO, should Russia not collapse, then we virtually have conditions for anyone online.

So, IMO, not federating with instances who has...

HistoPol, (edited )
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@tshirtman @osc

(4/4)

...personally identifiable information (PIF) on its users is essential.

Even if (today 😉 -- see 's moves towards a in my TL*) you live in a liberal democracy, you might be endangering not-infosec savvy Fedizens who are not e.g. in the aforementioned countries or several of the Arabian countries, e.g. .

IMHO



https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110503083766962766

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@HistoPol @osc this doesn’t even begin to address how using mastodon has any way changed regarding your PII since Threads joined, nor how blocking them will change anything.

Because this fails to address how all the data you post on mastodon is already public, and what more is gaining (from you, not from its users) by joining the fedi with an app.

If mastodon users are not-infosec-savy, they are already into trouble, they were the instant they joined mastodon.

tshirtman,
@tshirtman@mas.to avatar

@HistoPol @osc

let me state it as clearly as i can, to the risk of being blunt.

Meta harverst and sell your data, anyone who wants this data can certainly buy it from hem.

The fediverse spread your data, -- anything you post publicly -- around, for anyone to collect, for free.

Don’t post anything sensitive on the fediverse, seriously.

If your instance doesn’t collect the thing meta does from its users, they joining the fediverse doesn’t change anything from you in that regard.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • threads
  • DreamBathrooms
  • everett
  • osvaldo12
  • magazineikmin
  • thenastyranch
  • rosin
  • normalnudes
  • Youngstown
  • Durango
  • slotface
  • ngwrru68w68
  • kavyap
  • mdbf
  • InstantRegret
  • JUstTest
  • ethstaker
  • GTA5RPClips
  • tacticalgear
  • Leos
  • anitta
  • modclub
  • khanakhh
  • cubers
  • cisconetworking
  • provamag3
  • megavids
  • tester
  • lostlight
  • All magazines