@JesseF8693 I don't think they are bad, and they can have uses, but I do think they promote an inaccurate view of the world that won't prepare you for integrating with a sighted society. I went to a place where (for instance) you had to pay your own rent, and had to design your own lesson plans. More responsibility and it was scarier, but it was exactly what I needed.
@objectinspace I'm aware of paying for rent, utilities, and things of that nature, even though it's not something I've personally done yet. I'm mostly looking for personal living skills development, and, I hope, securing a job in the process.
@JesseF8693 The thing with developing your living skills is, you have to constantly use them or they will atrifee. It's no good to learn them in the abstract of, "this is what I will do once I am on my own." If you can take off your responsible adult hat in the evenings then it won't take--at least, it did not for me.
@objectinspace Oh I agree with you completely. Like I said, I'm still at home with my family for a while longer, but... once I finish college I plan to say screw it and make my way to a training center, preferably with their help but I'll go it alone if I have to. Then I'll find my own place somewhere. I hate where I am right now.
@objectinspace The entire problem we're having, living in Canada, is that there are no such training centres available. The family is not okay with me going across the border for such, but at the end of the day it's not their decision, it's mine. But I know what they'll try and do. They'll play the, I don't know how expensive it will be, card, among other things. They'll say it won't be convenient for them to get me there.
@JesseF8693 I don’t think training centers are bad if your family chooses not to do their job and help you with learning skills you need. I cannot recommend a particular center because I’ve never attended one. But I’d recommend staying away from the NFB run ones of which blind inc is. There’s lots of mental/emotional abuse that goes on and a cult mentality. This, in addition to their problems around doing nothing about sexual assault happening to students in their centers.
@JesseF8693 a cult mentality. If you look up characteristics of cults and cultish behaviors you’ll see a need to control, and to recruit and much more. These are common in this group and it’s training centers. Show no weakness, fear, lack of confidence. Do every activity even if it has nothing to do with independent living. Use the cane they require.
@JesseF8693 if you get to know enough people you’ll discover that the ones who sing their praises were brainwashed at one of their training centers. Most have been so programmed that they worship the NFB and think they do nothing wrong. This is common in those who get caught up in cults be they the religious kind or an MLM.
@amy0223 I see. I'll certainly take that into consideration. Thanks.
If I do end up deciding to go there,, well... I've seen how religious cults operate at least, so I think I could probably hold my own in that respect. But one never truly knows.
What I do know is that wherever I go, I really hope it will be the last chapter before I can break away from my family. I'm tired of living with them and want to start living on my own, where I choose to.
@JesseF8693 well, I have never attended one. I know the NFB has had issues at centres but I do think they actually teach skills that people need and generally they come out of them with real skills to manage life as a blind person. I am actually a fan of the structured discovery model. can not comment on that specific centre as I haven't attended any in my life but would have if that had been an option at any point.
@bmoore123@JesseF8693 They teach some skills, but if you don't follow their way of doing things, never seeking help, not using what sight you do have, not using a service dog, you get all kinds of crap. At least, that used to be true. It's possible they've changed in the several years since I knew anyone that attended their centers, but I certainly couldn't recommend them due to the general our way or no way attitude of the organization.
@Faylen@bmoore123 Interesting. I was thinking I would go through the Guide Dogs for the Blind program, at some point. Though when would be tricky because I'm still in college for another year and change. I was planning to take both programs afterwards.
@JesseF8693 There are kinder, gentler training centers and you will learn good skills there to a greater or lesser degree, but the people with the best skills either have been doing it from childhood like I have, or they went to the NFB training centers. Thats just my observation. If you can tolerate the boot camp mindset, put your nose to the grindstone and are committed to independence, then it might be a good fit, but if you are sensitive then find somewhere else.
@Pawpower How long are their programs?
Part of it is I don't want to just be talked down to, I would like to at least feel like I am making progress/feel like I'm in an encouraging/supportive environment, since that's not something I am used to feeling.
@JesseF8693 Also transparancy, I am not a member of NFB, and the NFB is currently eyebrow deep in a festering quagmire of accusations of sexual misconduct, racism homophobia etc. There are 3 nfb centers, Blind INC in MN, Louisiana Center for the Blind in my state of Louisiana, and the Colorado Center in... Colorado.
@Pawpower@JesseF8693
Pawpower I'm including you in this in case you had any useful knowledge. Jesse, in addition to the options pointed out by pawpower have you looked into any of the following? I just found names I have not looked at any of these, though the last has already been mentioned.
CNIB
W. Ross Macdonald School for the Visually Impaired
Pacific Training Centre for the Blind
VISIONS/Services for the Blind and Visually Impaired
Hadley Institute for the Blind and Visually Impaired
Alphapointe
Braille Institute
Perkins School for the Blind
Carroll Center for the Blind
@baethyn@JesseF8693 And I'm a very bad person because I read this post and started singing "Ross MacDonald had a farm, e i e i o... and on his farm he had a cane, e i e i o. With a tap tap here, a tap tap there, here a tap, there a tap, everywhere a tap tap... etc. OK I'm going to shut up and go eat my chicken nuggets now everyone can be eternally grateful.
@JesseF8693@Pawpower from talking to lots of people who have gone through them they are pretty hard ass but pretty supportive too and really do celabrate accomplishments.
@JesseF8693 By the time you leave you will be crossing highways with your white cane, cook a meal for 40 people from scratch, and any number of other things in addition to weekly white glove inspections of your living space and they will find any dirt or mess and will point it out in exhausting and excruciating detail.. If you can accept this, great, if you want a kindler, gentler approach where you get to hug shit out and have your big feelings validated, this isn't for you.
@JesseF8693 This may be a good fit for you, honestly I know it's probably hard but your best bet may be to take a little mini vacation and take a tour. I remember my friend did this, and he was accustomed to being lead sighted guide everywhere and when the person from the center met him at the airport they refused to give him sighted guide and that decided him right then and there not to go.
@JesseF8693 I don't really know how hearing blind people do it but I think that they do listen for the other person or they ask for directions like tell me when we turn left or whatever. I have the dog and she will follow unwillingly if I tell her to follow she hates it! Lol
@Pawpower@JesseF8693 Chiming in here to encourage you to reach out to the training centers to see if they offer tours/experiences so you can get a feel for how it will be structured. One that I know does this is The Carrolll Center for the Blind in Newton Massachusetts. Another resource to look in to as they offer training that is a bit gentler than the NFB centers.
@Pawpower@Peiress The problem with getting a tour is that would be very inconvenient for the family as we don't live in the US and I don't know anyone else who could help me across. Unless they were willing to provide assistance with transportation.
@JesseF8693@Peiress You would need to pay for your own flights if it were just a tour. I am not sure what assistance they might provide once you get there, but you could probably bring someone from your family with you if you wanted to or you needed the assistance. At least for the tour!
@Pawpower@Peiress Hell no, lol. I want to be as far away from them as I can safely get, honestly. There are... stories. Very long ones, that I can't really type out. @lunar_fang can confirm them though.
@Pawpower@JesseF8693 I do not know if this still holds true, but they used to allow new prospective students to do a 2-week trial period where they are treated like any other center student and get to try out all the classes and living facilities to see if it's a good match. I actually like that because I think 2 weeks is long enough for someone to make up their mind on whether or not a center's training will work for them. As far as covering that 2-week trial period you might have to reach out to your VR counselor if you don't have the means to pay for it out of pocket.
@Peiress@Pawpower I'm afraid I'm not connected to such a person. I was going through an employment agency called LEADS at one point, but they cut me from their caseload because I'm in college. But... something tells me that's not quite the same type of agency as you meant.
@JesseF8693 So many blind people get O&M, for a new job, when they move to a new area, bla bla. I havben't had O&M in 35 years because I don't need O&M because I know how to learn, I'm comfortable. Being lost, I have techniques to get unlost, I fly to cities as a deafblind person alone and I figure shit out and don't go sighted guide ever because I know how to learn.
@Pawpower@JesseF8693 same, haven't had it since I was 12 and that means the man who tought me it as a kid did a really good job. I remember being 10 and he made me figure out transit routes on my own including calling the transit info line to figure out how to get somewhere.
@bmoore123@JesseF8693 I was not allowed to use a cane or read braille as a child because my parents were ablest as fuck, but I was also left in charge of my three younger siblings and several younger cousins so I basically had to figure that shit out! I got my first lesson with the cane when I was 16 and by then I had been riding the city bus and traveling by myself so that was mostly technique. But the learning to figure things out part came when I was very young
@Pawpower@bmoore123 In my case, on the one hand my family is always saying how I'm shit with money. On the other... I don't hear them complaining when I find some way to get them a discount on home phone/cable/internet/cell service. But they never acknowledged what I was doing for them, either. So I've said fuck it and stopped doing it.
@JesseF8693@Pawpower well, if you never have to budget for normal living expenses like food rent etc, you aren't going to learn how. I learned by fucking it up at the beginning and got better at it as time went on.
@bmoore123@Pawpower Exactly.
They also tend to buy things on the cheap side though, as in as cheap as possible. But I'd rather spend for the long-term where I can, because in buying something that will last... it's less likely to kill me. Like a cheap fan they own very nearly could have.
@bmoore123@JesseF8693 These centers have big major problems but the one thing they do very well is teach you how to solve problems. Not specific problems but the techniques of problem-solving and working things out. I believe the term to use is structured discovery and I think it is a great method! I wish it were not so inextricably linked with their other bullshit but… You take the good out of it and leave the rest
@Pawpower@bmoore123 Brian did mention that method, yes. I'm certainly curious what you think their other problems are, though. Aside from the sexual harassment issues I heard about. I didn't know those issues were still ongoing, thought they were dealt with a while ago.
@JesseF8693@Pawpower well, sort of dealt with. as an outsider, I shouldn't really comment too much but it seems from my outsider perspective there was still some hiding things. and more could have been done for survivors..
@bmoore123@JesseF8693 Yes, also there are ... what I'm going to describe as pronounced Christian overtones in their philosophy classes. They are also shite at working w/folks who have other disabilities in addition to blindness. So there are negatives but truth, you come out with awesome skills. You just need to let all the other shit roll off your back and decide how much of the kool-ade you're willing to consume.
@Pawpower@bmoore123 Somehow, the first point doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but that's something I can deal with, easily.
When you say other disabilities would you say that also includes hearing loss?
@JesseF8693@bmoore123 And appologies; ADLs=activities of daily living. Cooking, cleaning, money management, laundry, acts of personal hygiene are all ADLs.
@Pawpower@bmoore123 I can communicate verbally no problem. Hearing other people, it depends on the environment. I use hearing aids and have a small microphone I can give to someone if needed, though.
@JesseF8693 So transparency, I've never attended one as basically I learned along with my siblings how to do ADLs as a child and don't really need one, however I have observed many clients of varying ages attend these and what I'm going to tell you is that the 3 nfb centers are good, you will come out with really, really fucking good skills. But they are not going to hold your hand or accept excuses or whining. They will push you far beyond your comfort zone. It is like bootcamp
@JesseF8693 it depends if you're willing to learn what they have to teach you. and want the help they can give you. there's loads all over the place, NFB runs some. I'm personally fond of the carroll center in Massachusetts. went to a 5 month program there to brush up on things I already knew. talk to people who have been to them, if you can.
@lunar_fang I don't know anyone who has been, but I do know I want to do this. Of course, like I said, the family isn't too keen on it, because it would mean I leave the house and cross the border. It would be inconvenient to get me there is a line they've used in the past for guide dog school and it's a line they will probably use again
@JesseF8693 you have to put your foot down then. if they want you to be an independant person who they don't have to worry about then they should help you gain that indipendence. if they give a shit about you at all they'll help you.
@lunar_fang I'm in the process of trying to do just that. Honestly, once I'm gone, in all likeliness, I won't look back and won't come back. I have been held so tightly to the family since the day I was born and I'm tired of living here. I don't know if they know this or not, but I don't plan to tell them. I'll probably just cut contact eventually.
@JesseF8693 In my opinion, it highly depends on who runs the center, what other people's experience s have been like etc. There are some really great facilities I've heard of aorund the US that are pretty awesome, but there are several that just plain suck on all levels. I've heard Colorado has a good one and Texas has Criss Cole I've heard good things about. Never heard of the one you mentioned.
@blindbat84 I am open to recommendations. The family isn't too keen on sending me across the border but at this point, I don't care what they think. I do have agency over my own life, and Canada isn't the centre of the world, for better or worse
@JesseF8693 My partner went to Criss Cole and could likely give you some info about it for sure, its been a while since he went there so things could have changed some, but he's always talked well of it. What are your guals more specifically I guess is a good place to start, what areas do you want help in?
@JesseF8693 You are in canada right? Is there no equivelant of a state vocational rehabilitation government agency to reach out to for skills training? I know squat about Canadian government stuff except some of the accessibility laws, nothing on actual govenmental disability oriented bodies.
@blindbat84 There's vision loss rehab, but I don't feel like I get the most out of them. There are no training centres in Canada like there are across the border, so specialists will just come to your house for a few hours then leave. I want to immerse myself more fully into the experience, if that makes any sense. But without family behind me.
@JesseF8693 That makes absolute sense. Hopefully you can get some good suggestions. Please, no NFB centers, especially with the crap they've had to deal with lately. Being that you are from Canada, I don't know the procedure for getting into a center, but I guess the first step is if you find one you may be interested in, reach out to them and explain your situation and see what the process is. I know normally state vocational rehab usually has a hand in that but may not always.
@JesseF8693 NFB run. Can't do Criss Cole sadly because you need to be a Texas resident, looking up the Colorado one now to see what it has for requirements, just in case.
@JesseF8693 Looks like the Colorado one is NFB based, sad as it looks pretty neat, I don't think that's the one I've heard good things aobut, I don't know the name of it sadly. Also, something that was just pointed out to me... do you have a passport?
@blindbat84@JesseF8693 there sort of is. they contract it out to a charity. However, nothing as intensive as those residential things like you have in the states.
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 when you finish whatever training you have, will you go back to your family? This happens a lot and undoes whatever training lots might get from whatever center. It’s rough if your family doesn’t believe in your ability to live and work independently. And the thing training centers often do not focus on is employability. I’m only saying this because wherever you choose, if the end goal is breaking free and being on your own it might be worth thinking about
@amy0223@blindbat84 If I have anything to say about it, honestly? No, I won't. I've felt stuck here for the longest time and don't want to have to rely on them to get around, like I could hopefully do on my own in a city.
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 I think you might have a problem getting funded. don't know what the cost is but it isn't cheap. Can't see ontario funding that when cnib has such a monopoly particularly with vision loss rehab ontario but they don't offer anything that intensive. residential training centres simply don't exist in this country.
@bmoore123@blindbat84 Yeah. And my family is apparently making the decision for me that I'm not going across the border to go to a training center. Just like they refused to let me at least attend Ross at one point before they finally caved. I had some of the most fun experiences there.
I am my own person, dammit. Can't wait to get out of here. If it is a mistake, it's my mistake to make, no?
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 it is. However, family dynamics can be a complex thing. Yes, you are an adult and allowed to do well or screw up on your own. However, some families don't get that. happy to discuss privately.
@bmoore123@blindbat84 It's less that and more, they say they will let me walk into walls as it were, but whenever I try to assert myself I always end up having to fight for it and they react as if I'm being an idiot or I'm not considering what's involved. When I'm very much aware of what would be, but I'm just not letting myself be beholden to them.
Living in a small town with shit for any kind of transport doesn't help either.
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 yeah, I imagine that is a problem. I grew up in Montreal, a big city with lots of good public transit so I learned early and was going to school on my own on transit by grade 6
@bmoore123@blindbat84 I've never had that option.When I do mention the public transsit system in London the family tries to essentially scare me out of using it because it's so unsafe, and they get other blind people to back them up.
Driving is unsafe too, though.
As for walking to school, they didn't let me start doing that until high school. Even then, they only let me in the afternoon..
I don't go anywhere as is because there's nowhere of interest to go.
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 well, unsafe it may be but since you aren't going to be able to drive any time soon, what other choice do you have. Toronto transit can be unsafe but I still got to get around. I don't have another choice. welcome to life!
@bmoore123@blindbat84 I have the choice of relying on them to go anywhere, which I would really rather not. I don't want/need them following me everywhere I go.
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 also, I place a lot of value on the ability to determine when I want to go somewhere or not. I don't have to ask anyone or plan it days in advance. that is not something I would be prepared to give up for anyone!
@bmoore123@blindbat84 Again, this exactly. If I want to go anywhere it has to be worked around their work schedules during the week or on weekends. That's why I just don't bother. Like I said, I don't want/need them shadowing me everywhere I go. I can literally count on one hand the number of times I've been anywhere without one family member or another, outside of my time at Ross/scouts/camps for the blind.
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 is the plan that you will live at home forever. might be a question worth bringing up? what is their thinking about future plans. maybe you don't want to spend your adult life living with your parents
@bmoore123@blindbat84 They say they support me, but then they limit me by saying they don't want me, say, going to a training center outside of the province. I'm not sure if they even know what the plan is, and frankly I don't really care if they do.
Though my sense is they just want me to do whatever I can, learn whatever I can, from the comfort of home.
But I won't learn what I need to be independent if I'm dependent on them.
@bmoore123@blindbat84 Granted, I'm still going through college classes and residence is expensive as hell, which is the main reason I'm not looking at going through the training this summer.
2/2
@bmoore123@blindbat84 Exactly. I can't do the things I might aim to in Canada, unfortunately. Forget about doing them in a small ass town. But they reacted negatively to my mentioning a training center across the border, just as they did when I mentioned the possibility of attending a guide dog school not in Ontario. Their thought? Let one of us come with you for the weeks you're gone.
Uh... yeah, not happening.
@JesseF8693@bmoore123@blindbat84 Wow WTF? No, just no no no. Do they even realize how that sounds? You go to a place with a bunch of other blind adults, with a parent tagging along? Uh... What do they thing other blind adults do for goodness sakes?
@JesseF8693@blindbat84 well, actually, there is a program in BC that is trying to emulate the US experience. look up the pacific training centre for the blind.
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