President Joe Biden previously endorsed the border provisions, and while Trump and other Republicans have called it too weak, the bill would have marked a tough change to immigration law and would have given the president far-reaching powers to restrict illegal migrant crossings at the southern border.
The White House and top Democrats have discussed taking more action on the border ahead of the first presidential debate next month, CNN previously reported. Those plans, intended to strengthen the party’s hand on a critical campaign issue ahead of the 2024 election, also potentially include a sweeping executive order limiting migrants’ ability to seek asylum, sources have told CNN.
Biden’s getting protested by his own party for acting too much like Republicans…
So now Dems are going to act even more like Republicans? We can’t address real problems, but we’re working with republicans on “border security”?
If Dem voters always “vote blue no matter who” then the party is going to keep moving right under the misguided idea that trump voters will vote for Biden.
I truly wish it didn’t take abstaining from the vote to get the message across, I don’t even know if that will work honestly. But it’s clear they don’t give a fuck about protests when they’re in power to do something.
I’ve watched the party pull to the right for 30 years now. Shutting up and voting for the lesser of two evils isn’t sustainable long term. The party needs to move back to the left, but they never will if we keep blindly voting for Dems that agree with Republicans on this stupid shit.
Ma dude, you’re just ranting in this thread and not making much of a coherent argument or thought in context with the article. Politics is shitty. We get it.
That’s his schtick. He shows up in threads wanting politics to “be better”… By shitting on the only viable alternative to the fascism Republicans have to offer.
When Republicans are outright saying they want Trump to be above the law, there’s no reason to shit talk Biden on anything unless GOP fascism is your end goal. All such action does is create division and apathy.
I should block them, but it’s really frustrating see them post nothing in the way of facts or sources. It’s always just a generic, leftist-flavored response to the most uncharitable reading of every comment. They will flat out just ignore the parts they don’t want to respond to. It’s just like arguing with the maga people, but with less discrimination. I’ll give them that, I guess.
I think there are definitely good reasons to criticize Biden. I also think when it’s all you do, it starts to look very sus. We need nuance in our criticism, realism in our strategies. And you’re right in that I think during an election season, I would be thinking about where my priorities are with airing my criticism in public places, if you are actually laying out the odds for harm reduction.
Not everyone subscribes to harm reduction though, which I disagree with, but hey you can’t win them all.
Edit: Also, sorry for double responding. Just two separate topics in there.
There’s a lot of issues with our shitty 2 party system. No doubt.
But I think you (and a lot of folks on lemmy) are vastly over estimating how liberal most Americans are. The country as a whole is fairly moderate (and compared to the international world, pretty conservative), and when both parties allow themselves to be controlled by the fringe edges (right or left), most Americans will lean away from the party unless they’re a brainwashed group of idiots without the ability to critically think… And those type of folks already have their orange champion.
Abstaining from voting is only going to help one group of people, and unless you enjoyed Jan 6th, that isn’t ok. I agree whole heartedly that this situation sucks. We’ve got a wanna be dictator with a real shot at the presidency and our only other choice is Joe Biden.
But there’s only been one president in the history of the country that has promoted and pushed for an overthrow of democracy, I’d vote for anyone running against him to prevent that shit from happening again. Meanwhile I’m voting for any representative and senator or local politicians who work towards a ranked voting solution. But if you abstain then you’re helping Trump get elected, you’re absolutely stupid if you think the 2 are the same, Biden is not my ideal candidate by any means, but at least he isn’t actively trying to destroy our country or literally offering to sell our future to big oil.
Most Americans aren’t that conservative, they’ve just been conditioned to vote by party. If you break them out individually, many liberal and even progressive issues are supported by a majority of Americans. However the second you lump them together and call that the “Democratic Party Platform” you get a knee-jerk reaction against it.
Republicans have been manufacturing outrage at the border to score political points on a regular basis, like that migrant caravan which convenes every four years like a Fox News political convention.
However, this recent crisis is a bit different, as we have numbers that show that there have been an increase in asylum claims at the border vs. before the Pandemic, which is overwhelming the courts that handle this sort of thing. If someone makes it over the border and claims asylum, it can take years to get a hearing, and in the meantime they can live and work here. That was not the intent behind the asylum process.
Some Senators on both sides realized this, and used the opportunity to try and fix the asylum process. Yes, it also reduces the types of people who could claim asylum. But it also addresses critical staffing shortages in CBP and other agencies who have to deal with the influx of migrants on a daily basis.
So, this is an evidence-based attempt to make things better. So, of course, Trump is against it, because using immigration as a campaign plank matters more to him than fixing the problem. As much as he complains about it, having the problem to talk about is more valuable to him than fixing it.
So, this is an evidence-based attempt to make things better
Just because Republicans keep saying something doesn’t make it “evidence”…
If that was true, Joe Biden would be a Communist that’s more progressive than AOC, whose trying to pass strict gun laws, tax the rich, fight climate change, and get universal healthcare.
I’d love for that to be true, but it’s not. And republicans repeating it over and over again won’t suddenly make it try.
Just because Republicans keep saying something doesn’t make it “evidence”…
Maybe this does:
A Sober Assessment of the Growing U.S. Asylum Backlog
At the end of FY 2012, over 100,000 asylum cases were pending in the Immigration Court’s backlog. A decade later, the backlog had grown over 7-fold to over 750,000 cases in September at the end of FY 2022. Since then, in just the first two months of FY 2023 (October-November 2022), the asylum backlog jumped by over 30,000 new cases and now totals 787,882. See Figure 1.
TRAC has been praised by fellows at the anti-immigration think tank Center for Immigration Studies for the quality of the data it provides on immigration as well as the Federal Courts and federal law enforcement organizations.
You think the existence of a large backlog of asylum seekers… Means we should deny all asylum seekers?
I don’t understand any of that logic…
Wouldn’t the fix be to process all those applications?
You don’t think people waiting years for asylum are going to try and cross illegally out of desperation?
I appreciate you linking that to show an actual problem with the border, but I have zero idea how you think this makes it better instead of worse.
Like, at all, unless I’m confused and you’ve been agreeing with me this whole time, I don’t understand why you would link something so harmful to your own argument
Quite a bit. Have you read the bill? Section I is doing a lot of hiring and training changes for border personnel. Section II is entirely centered on enhancements to the asylum review process. It’s mostly minutiae like streamlining certain bars for entry and such. There is also the contentious 5k/day (likely to be 4k under an R admin since it’s discretionary) threshold in Section III that triggers a full stop to entry until some of the backlog is cleared. Not sure I fully agree with that one but it will indisputably have an impact on the backlog.
There is also the contentious 5k/day (likely to be 4k under an R admin since it’s discretionary) threshold in Section III that triggers a full stop to entry until some of the backlog is cleared.
So…
The limit is discretionary if they can change it…
So they could do it at any point, just like I was saying?
And I still don’t know why/how not accepting more applications or not allowing anyone else to cross the border actually fixes the backlog.
Like, them saying they’ll hire more people could help. But if you had experience with a government agency, you’d know they’re always saying they’re going to increase staffing, and rarely random to do more than keep up with people leaving.
But thanks for letting me know what was in there is what I’ve been saying is in there.
No, it’s discretionary down to a limit of 4k, which is also in the text of the bill. I really think you should stop commenting strongly on things you haven’t even read. It’s not a great look. You can find the section by section and full text on Lankford’s site. He led the bipartisan team that introduced the bill, but I’m sure you can find it elsewhere.
None of what you’re saying makes sense, it’s just “your team” so you defend it.
And your opinion that this is fine doesn’t change the fact that Biden is already unpopular with Dem voters, that pushing this hurts the whole party’s popularity, and if it actually passes it’s all but guaranteeing republicans not only win the presidency but capture the Senate and maintain the House…
I don’t think you’re the original account that claimed this was somehow just to get votes…
So why do you think this is a good idea? Do you genuinely think this needs done or do you also think this will somehow help him?
I’m not going to answer any more questions you can answer by reading the bill.
None of what you’re saying makes sense, it’s just “your team” so you defend it.
Not sure what “team” you’re even implying I’m on? I haven’t given a single political opinion other than saying “not sure I agree with that” in response to the asylum claim threshold. I’ve only corrected factual information in regards to the text of the bill. In fact, I have less than zero desire to get into any sort of political argument with someone who won’t even put in the 10 minutes it would take to read the section by section.
You think Schumer is going to do this and push for it to be passed…
Then blame Republicans when they can’t pass it without Dems?
And you think voters are dumb enough to believe that?
Like, even if that works, you’re just cool with America committing more human rights violations against asylum seekers for political points?
…
I thought that’s why we all agreed republicans were the baddies, but it seems like more and more people just care about the letter by their name and nothing else.
Shit like this hurts Biden with Dem voters, and it will never get trumpets to vote Biden.
It’s political hardball. Republicans use this issue as a wedge. By making them declare on it as a stand alone measure, Democrats remove the issue. It could pass the Senate, but Johnson will never bring it to the floor in the House. The narrative will then be reinforced that Republicans don’t want to solve the problem, they just want to talk about it.
Biden and Schumer have been very open about how changing a Dem Senators mind on anything is impossible…
And it’s a 50/50 split in the Senate…
So what happens if just a single Dem does what Biden has been asking for and votes for this bill?
What happens if it’s a party line vote and the VP uses her tie breaker to do what the president keeps asking for?
Like. You’ve heard the name “Joe Manchin” before…
Haven’t you?
And if it passes the Senate, why wouldn’t the house pass it?
They’re playing with people’s fucking lives for decades in the future to pull some minor political points that won’t change a single vote from R but will decrease Dem turnout.
As much as I don’t like this bill the answer to your question about the house is “because the house has been an absolute cluster fuck (more than usual) and it would exactly be surprising if they modeled incompetence for us again”.
I also suspect that the goal is to sweep the wedge issue and win moderate republican and non-affiliated moderates, not to increase democratic voter turn out. They’re basically giving the Republicans the “let’s shoot immigrants” bill they’ve always dreamed of to take that card out of play for them.
The scenario of a split is interesting but very low probability since there are Democraticame Senators who can make sure that doesn’t happen by their vote. I imagine there will be Democratic Senators voting for this bill. It’s not what they do that’s important, it’s what Republicans do. Johnson won’t bring it to the floor for the s reasons he didn’t last time. Trump told him not to.
The scenario of a split is interesting but very low probability since there are Democraticame Senators who can make sure that doesn’t happen by their vote.
How does your math work?
It takes a single D senator cough Joe Manchin cough voting for this for it to pass the Senate, then it will pass the Republican House.
You realize there are consequences for this that will last decades if it’s ever overturned?
This ain’t a fucking game, this effects peoples lives. It effects if people will live…
And playing with them like they’re pawns is something republicans do, Dems joining in hurts their turnout and when turnout is low, republicans win.
If it’s just political.points to show republicans won’t do anything, why not use healthcare?
Why use something that if literally anything goes different than expected, republicans win?
In a perfect world things could pass with a 50 vote + Kamala Harris majority, but the Senate has failed to operate like that since they engaged the filibuster death penalty in 2009 when Obama was elected.
60 votes are needed to proceed on ANYTHING in the Senate and with a 50/50 split, the votes from the other side just aren’t there.
Tell that to ALL REPUBLICANS in the Senate voting to reject the bill.
What?
Tell them that this bill is something they should agree with and they could pass it, getting stuff they want while putting all the blame on Biden and getting trump elected?
The fuck would I want them to do that for?
I’m.praying they’re too spiteful and stupid to realize that…
To anybody reading the above, let’s remember that currently, that is, right now, there are Republican leaders encouraging to vote against this bill. It’s right there in the article.
And let’s remember that the first attempt was shut down by the Republicans.
So, don’t fall for what the AI bot is saying above.
Add comment