@Skoop Quite expensive IMO considering the amount of admin-gens in the wild.
I worked on EasyAdmin when it first released and it was awesome, tried the Sylius Resource system and it's great (and its current rewrite is really promising), worked with Sonata and it was great back then when it was popular.
I'm even working on one (https://github.com/Orbitale/SvelteAdmin) with great ambitions (but little time and zero funding, of course) that could be in JS/TS and backend-agnostic in the future.
Seriously, I earn this back if it saves me 1 hour of work. And it saves me multiple days of work.
One thing I really appreciate about the Laravel ecosystem is that they've found ways to monetize their work, allowing important tools to keep existing.
No, it is not open source. But if you're working on a commercial project or even on a small side hustle, $99 is pretty reasonable.
@Skoop I stopped counting the amount of prototypes I had to do for some companies, most of them didn't care about OSS being a thing, but they didn't want to pay for any product either ( considering paying for Office 365 and the entire server infrastructure was already enough, most of the time).
When Nova was first released, it was a pure copy of ANY admingen I've used in the past decade and more (even Symfony 1 had one great FOSS one).
I'm okay for paying, but I'd still need it to be OSS
@Skoop Prototyping with a paid product is always a tough choice for smaller businesses, and big business don't want to "depend" too much on paid products (to avoid vendor lock-in, even though this can be an illusion, but still).
If we could change how everyone thought about the system, sure, paid product that does the work is great.
But the reason why I'd still need it to be OSS is for honesty.
Too many paid products are malicious at some point. And if they're not now, they might be later.
@pierstoval@Skoop “ big business don't want to "depend" too much on paid products”…..are you kidding me? I spend [millions] a year on paid products in our technology ecosystem, which is largely PHP-driven. Happily. To that end, we've literally begged Laravel to sell us a very expensive enterprise version of Nova with more access to support, roadmap, etc. I can afford it and they don't charge enough.
@josh@Skoop There's quite a difference between the business you work with and the ones I encounter in France and more generally Europe. The mentality isn't the same, that's why it took longer for Laravel to cross the sea and overcome what we had here with CakePHP, Zend and Symfony
@Skoop The advantage of OSS-with-paid-licence is that you get to monetize your workforce, you ensure that an entire community of devs can help and contribute, but still the community has the right to fork (depending on licencing, but that's a specific case) and make sure the company doesn't cause issues to the community of users.
So far, @snipe with Snipe-IT work, even with their ups and downs
@Skoop And to end up about my opinion on the subject, and on a more general basis, there's really something I dislike with the Laravel ecosystem.
I've seen so many products of their suite that are just wrappers around other products, mostly OSS products, with a nice UI/design/sugarcoat on it that make it "hype-ey" somehow.
All that stuff with Pest, Pint, even Nova (which as said was "just another admingen" back then), it's the "Apple-way" and it doesn't sound right to me
@pierstoval oh, I understand that. I'm not saying I like everything about Laravel. But I don't like everything about Symfony either. Or about PHP.
The choice for Laravel here was not my choice, but it gets the job done. Just as Symfony would. Just as PHP does. Even PHP is in some places just a fancy wrapper around another tool :)
@Skoop It's selling glitter and design, and even though I accept this is work that deserves to be paid, there's all the people below the product that need to be paid.
Forge and Vapor are wrappers around hosting services, Spark is a wrapper around Paddle and Stripe, etc., all of it with a hype coat of paint.
@pierstoval sure, it depends. depends on the situation, the customer, the project.
In this case I'm working on a paid project for a customer. Not a prototype, a well-defined project. I've given them two options: I can build my own admin area, or you can pay $99 for a Nova license. That's a no-brainer. $99 is literally less than 1 hour work for me. The amount of time Nova will save, it's a great deal for them
@Skoop Sure, being a paid product, Nova is great, but still suits only a part of businesses that are okay with it, it's still a private thing (no OSS) so you're totally dependent of it, cannot contribute it, etc.
Advantages of paid products (maintained and support available), but also the disadvantages.
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