@japanskier To everyone reading this, this is pure BEV propaganda. It is just a bunch of lies trying to stop countries from investing in alternative ideas to the BEV. The motivation are varied, but one of them is the Chinese government's goal to take over the car industry. People need to realize just how ridiculous and out of control the lies have become.
The BEV is the greatest form of greenwashing today. It is something we need to move away from.
@japanskier Nonsense. Hydrogen has only ever been made for oil industry in past. There had never been a market for zero emission hydrogen. Now, we have green hydrogen production already in 1 plant in Las Vegas that makes enough for a dedicated 40,000 vehicles and there are only 15,000 vehicles on California roads. This means the entire market forward is 100% sustainable ready to scale. It is disinformation to make it seem as though 100% of H2 for energy & ammonia looking forward is not possible.
@respectmyplanet@japanskier Then you aren’t understanding how energy works. It takes a lot of energy to turn water into hydrogen. Physically, there is no way to make that process efficient. You always lose energy producing hydrogen.
Hydrogen production by using otherwise wasted energy can break even, but it’s resource limited. You can’t power the world with it.
…and that doesn’t touch on storage, but conversion is possible there.
@Extra_Special_Carbon would like to learn more about your viewpoints on energy. Do you have any links to what you have written about regarding how energy works?
@respectmyplanet Yes. It takes more energy to electrolyze water than you will ever get out of out of burning the hydrogen. You’re better of just using the energy directly.
@Extra_Special_Carbon there is more than one type of efficiency. The metric you're hanging your thesis on is irrelevant. Have been writing about it for years on RMP. Tell me why electrolyzer growth is planned to double each year into the 2030's. The US DOE, governments of Germany, China, Japan, and South Korea all see it the way RMP does. #hydrogen will scale to replace fossil fuels. Batteries are great, but smaller packs per vehicle is better for the environment, air, and water. We're done.
@TruthSandwich@japanskier This is blatant BEV propaganda. And more than that, it is Chinese Communist propaganda. They would love it if everyone believed there is no alternative to the BEV. Everyone needs to stop and actually think for once. The BEV is the greatest act of greenwashing. It is what that needs to be abandoned.
@TruthSandwich@japanskier That's what I mean by BEV propaganda. BEVs don't work at all. It is just massive government subsidies and mandates propping it all up. It will die the moment that support dries up.
In reality, hydrogen cars represent a real option going forward. BEV fanatics are simply falling prey to the lies of corporations and the Chinese government.
@TruthSandwich@japanskier The physical laws of the universe are against hydrogen. It cannot be done until all electricity is from renewables. At that point, we don’t need it.
@Extra_Special_Carbon@TruthSandwich@japanskier The laws of physics guarantee that hydrogen cars will the car of the future. What you're spreading is BEV propaganda. And likely repeating Chinese Communist propaganda on top of that.
Imagine believe that the most common element in the universe cannot power a car. Does that sound logical? Who is being brainwashed here?
@Extra_Special_Carbon@TruthSandwich@japanskier The process is electrochemical and is the same idea as how batteries work. There is no fundamental difference between this and what BEV are suppose to do.
@Extra_Special_Carbon@TruthSandwich@japanskier Again, wrong. Both are electrochemical systems. The efficiency of both systems, at least in principle, are the same. A fuel cell is in many ways a type of battery. FCEVs are also EVs as a result of this. Your argument is not based in physics at all.
Unless you’ve got a handy gas giant planet to scoop from, hydrogen is not an energy source but a storage medium. That makes it parallel to batteries, not gasoline.
But it’s also a bad storage medium, for all the reasons already given. And it’s not economical to produce it cleanly; most of what we make today is cracked off petroleum. Ick.
Again, this is more BEV propaganda. Hydrogen is far less resource demanding and has a far higher energy density than li-ion batteries. It's immediately obvious that this is a viable idea. The notion that it can't be created in a green way, while pretending that li-ion batteries somehow can, is the conspiracy theory that people have fallen for.
You need to reconsider your own views. You are stuck in the past and refuse to accept that there are ideas beyond the BEV. Your worldview is basically stuck in the mid-2000s.
@TruthSandwich@Extra_Special_Carbon@japanskier Hydrogen cars already exist and they already work. You are just repeating BEV propaganda. It is basically a series of lies designed to confuse people and make people think there is no alternatives to batteries. An industry thoroughly controlled by the Chinese government. It is clearly just a scam if you actually thought it through.
@Extra_Special_Carbon@TruthSandwich@japanskier If you know hydrogen cars exist, then what is your whole argument using the laws of physics? This is your strawman, not mine. I am merely pointing out the insanity of your logic.
And the BEV is a terrible idea that plenty of countries have funded billions into. The only reality is that China does not care about how environmental destructive the BEV is. Hence why you see so much push by China.
This is why green hydrogen makes sense. You are turning wind, sunlight and water into an energy storage mechanism. It fits philosophically with the rest of the green energy revolution. Batteries do not.
Again, BEV are a massive act of greenwashing. It is not even a new idea. It predates the ICE car. It is self-evidently not a viable path forward. The only people that benefits are corporations and the Chinese government.
Meanwhile, hydrogen is made from water and is actually a green technology. Why do people oppose this idea? Because they have fallen for BEV propaganda.
@Extra_Special_Carbon@TruthSandwich@japanskier From a theoretical point of view, it does have the same level of efficiency. It probably will as the technology improves. It's guys like you who spam the words "laws of physics" that have idea what they're saying.
You're the fanatic. You've literally fallen for conspiracy theories and BEV propaganda. All of which is in service to corporations and the Chinese government. In effect, you are undermining environmentalism.
But for now, that is a stretch. We will need effective carbon capture technology for it to work. Hydrogen is available now and solves the main weaknesses of batteries. We do not have to wait until the next big idea.
@Extra_Special_Carbon@japanskier We don't have effective carbon capture working right now. Hydrocarbon fuel cells are still in early stages of development. It could happen, but for now it is speculative technology.
A hydrogen fuel cell is basically a hydrogen-air battery. It is a currently existing technology. They are good enough to be deployed now.
It literally works like a battery. You are just imagining problem from who knows where.
Hydrocarbon fuel cells do not need high temperature. Direct alcohol fuel cells for instance work at room temperature.
In short, you are just a piece of shit who lies in order to promote batteries over seriously environmentalism. In this regard, you are basically a climate change denier. So fuck you and your total blatant lies.
@Extra_Special_Carbon@TruthSandwich@japanskier Wrong. It is the only option going forward. Not unless you want something like e-fuels. Batteries are an unsustainable dead-end idea. And one that doesn't work for everyone to begin with. It's painfully sad to see so-called environmentalists fall for corporate and Chinese government propaganda.
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