I mean this in a loving way, but I have never encountered as many avowed anti-capitalists, communists, and anarchists as when working at Google.
And it's not that your career choices must perfectly reflect your ideals... but there's gonna be a lot of tombstones engraved with "he only partook in apex capitalism as a joke".
@lcamtuf Being communist or anarchist means you cannot work for Google or any other big tech company? I mean, it's not like working for Lockheed Martin, Palantir or Black Water. WTF?
@lcamtuf Specially in the case of communists and anarchists it doesn't really matter which company you choose because 99% of companies (with very few exceptions, like some NGOs or cooperative companies, which I can count with my fingers) are capitalist. Is working for a less aggressive capitalist company better? If that company grows and becomes more aggressive you should leave? Honestly, I don't think so. Although, it doesn't really matter.
@lcamtuf Hopefully Google is less evil than Philip Morris and, well, I am sure at least myself wouldn't work there ever. But, which companies are, your opinion, 'acceptable' then if you are communist or anarchist? I'm not asking in bad faith, in case that's not clear.
@lcamtuf I get infinitely less than the entry level at Google and I feel guilty and shut the fuck up about work when I'm with my friends & family. Lol. Those salaries are from another universe for me.
@lcamtuf it wasn't so bad in 2005. I was a boiling frog for a long time before I finally realized what had happened in 2016. Started seriously planning my exit shortly thereafter. I miss the Google I joined, but not the Google I left.
To this machine, it's not important that you actually believe in something. It's important that you believe that you believe in something, so you are driven, and that it is convincing to others, so they do not target you.
@_dm@lcamtuf I work for a fortune500, and while it's not openly as evil as google or amazon, their goal is still to produce as much e-waste as possible. It doesn't align with my ecologist and political views, but from the point of view of someone who wants to live out of his skills, what else could I do to support my ideals?
We should be wary of not jumping into the caricatural "We should improve society somewhat" - "Yet you participate in society, curious! I am very intelligent" satiric image
@lcamtuf@_dm Yes I agree that it clashes. Everything is for sale. Time, skills, values. The price changes a lot of thing, and we all have a price.
Now there might be a few idealists who believe hey can change things from the inside, it's not unreasonable to get jobs in the places you want to change.
@aris@lcamtuf when I started at Google, I was struck by how naive a lot of the “we're improving the world” stuff was—and how much it did affect day-to-day decisions.
I still think it’s both ridiculous to say that working at a for-profit megacorp is somehow akin to charity (as people used to sometimes imply back in the old days, if less now) and yet also the case that such rhetoric did allow us, especially in security and safety, to justify work on things that had little business motive other than “make the web safer.”
All that being said: I’m not saying “eat the rich”, but I’m absolutely at that point in my life where I ask, is this really the best I can do to make myself useful with my limited time on earth?
Not everyone who works on a global-scale network works for a for-profit. Heck, I just got back from an entire annual conference of people who run global-scale networks for non-profits, and it's one of the most fun and interesting conferences I go to.
In all seriousness, I probably am just not as proactive as I should be about finding things to do--either full-time, or on the side--that align with my desires for, say, humanitarian impact. And I am more than open to--I should say, actively looking for--opportunities to do more on that front.
@woody@aris@lcamtuf That being said, part of my point was that Google isn't a terrible platform for such things; in my time, I've worked on things like protecting targeted/vulnerable user populations, IETF standards for improving encrypted communications, etc. I do think those things are somewhat impactful, even if they're sandwiched between meetings, perf reviews, and who knows what else.
But, my prior point stands: I absolutely am at that point in my career where I look for how to have impact that's not necessarily about remuneration.
@lcamtuf@aris@_dm how many of the people holding anti-capitalist views working at google do you think are “eat the rich” screaming stalinists versus the “let’s improve society” dsa type folks? i have yet to encounter the former
Twenty years ago I was going to protests against the invasion of Iraq, and you'd run into these people from International A.N.S.W.E.R. who'd be like, "Yeah, illegal wars and civilian casualties are bad, but the real problem is global capitalism."
Add comment