@TonyStark Worse than the silence are the calls (from people I know offline) expecting Jews to denounce Israel, when anyone who knows me should know that I have always denounced settlements in the West Bank and everything that keeps Gazans oppressed (which is much more complicated than "Israel").
I don't know anyone personally who was killed or kidnapped, but I have no fewer than five family members and friends who know someone dead or missing. Your Jewish friends are hurting. Reach out.
@TonyStark Right & justified wakeup call — for the deaf & blind to Jewish suffering!
Time for the descendants of Goliath & his friends on the left to accept David's victory, resilience against being displaced from where he belongs & willingness to live peacefully side by side with anyone, who's equally willing.
I’m a hardcore liberal who feels less and less connected to “the left” in a global sense because, well, IMO the left is becoming less and less classically liberal.
The tankies root for the destruction of representative democracy with seemingly no awareness that they’d most likely be in prison or dead under Russian or Chinese rule.
@ohiorob@TonyStark They are what I call the "reactionary left". Like the "reactionary right" they define themselves themselves in destructive ideological terms, by what they hate. They are no more "progressive' than fascists are "conservative". The further each moves to the poles, the closer each becomes like its opposite.
Progressives want to move forward, or at least that’s what I’ve always thought, based on reality and common goals. Far right and far left are clearly against that.
@TonyStark@ohiorob Both are a bit stuck in history. Their battles are old ones, as are their enemies.
There's really nothing much sadder than fighting a war that was won, on several fronts, years ago, but you couldn't be convinced to believe it. Now you can't be sure who the enemy is.
@TonyStark I am sorry so many seem to believe that "this particular group" is okay to marginalize. It's ridiculous and frustrating. I can't imagine how bad it is for y'all.
@TonyStark “But, but, but, the State of Israel did…” and then some bizarre conspiracy theory invented by literally Nazis or Nazi Pals (Islamists). “Therefore, Hamas (who are terrorists) aren’t terrorists and the Saudi Royal family or Ayatollah have never harmed even a fly.”
Sorry, just venting. I have heard some of the most ridiculous ahistorical nonsense way too many times from “well intended” people.
@robertnorlyn Thank you, Robert. Really means a lot. I have to also acknowledge that quite a few of my friends here reached out privately. I know some excellent people here.
@robertnorlyn@msbellows Yeah, sorry. They let a certain number of free reads per month with a sign up for free, though. They don’t offer subscribers a gift option or I’d use it.
@TonyStark It's been bizarre seeing the likes of college student groups and the DSA at odds with the Anti-Defamation League, of all entities. Then I remember that sometimes people just kinda share things kneejerk.
It's not the first thing my mind goes to for someone like me who goes MIA for months on social media.
@shield_asset Hey, hi. Nice to see you. Yeah, I have to say it was surprising to me. I understand kneejerk, but less so the continued insensitivity. Hope all is well.
@TonyStark The left circles I'm surrounded with do see the suffering on both sides, genuinely. Grieve with each individual. But leftwing sympathy mostly goes out to those who are oppressed the most.
@PeterBlok It’s not a contest but if it were, thousands of years of being persecuted, killed, genocided yourself and being driven all over the world ought to count for something. Anyway, I’m on the left, although maybe not for long at this rate. It’s not a contest as to whoever is most oppressed wins and it still doesn’t excuse antisemitism from anyone. Sheesh.
@TonyStark For me it's not how this works at all. You cannot possibly be winning when you're oppressed, the sympathy is meant to bring the situation more into balance, with less or possibly no oppression.
This has always bothered me about the state of Israel, how can people who have been oppressed so much, with so much suffering in the past (and present) behave similarly towards other people when given the opportunity? Self-preservation seems far more important than morality, it seems.
@PeterBlok Do you at all comprehend Hamas’ intentions? They are one, to kill all Jews and two, they’re not really all that interested in a free Palestine. There aren’t parties here available to being the situation more into “balance” unless you think a terrorist-run state is going to be a doable thing. Please be more realistic.
Not all Jewish people are Zionists and approve of Netanyahu, as if that has anything to do with it anyway. It’s not like Hamas interviewed…
@PeterBlok people including kids if they were Netanyahu supporters or not on the way to murdering, torturing, and kidnapping them. I can tell you are not going to listen no matter what I say and just triple down on your idea we should only care about certain people. Honest to God, all this posturing is exhausting.
@TonyStark You're taking my words and intentions quite out of context. Perhaps not strange given the limited amount of text we can exchange on this platform and the emotions involved in this conflict.
But I will not take one side in this matter, as there is suffering on both sides. And I will stand with the oppressed no matter their religion, nationality, gender or anything else that would set them apart.
@TonyStark Ah, thank you, I was hoping to reach some common ground, despite the difference in point of view. Even though these discussions generally do not lead to a radical change of opinion, they normally do lead to a better understanding of the situation, at least with me. Thanks for that.
And I thought you started taking sides? :o) Anyway, let's stay on the left side, the world is leaning too much to the right as it is.
@TonyStark What gave you the idea that I would approve of anything that Hamas stands for? Particularly not after the terrible things they did to innocent people on 7 October.
But oppression creates a breeding ground to support the ones that attack the oppressor, unfortunately. This monster was in part made possible due to Israeli politics. (And Iran, I know.)
Hopefully you can also feel for the innocent Palestinians suffering in this conflict, along with the innocent Israelis not that far away.
You come off like a terrorist supporter because you keep excusing terrorism as being created by the people who were attacked. Regular Jews weren’t oppressing anyone. Babies and kids weren’t oppressing anyone. Not excusable or understandable and that’s were many are failing. Just say it’s bad without a but. Not hard. Or is it? Because people love dead Jews.
@PeterBlok I can post sympathy for Palestinians all by itself without a qualification. Seems too hard for some on the left and it’s really alienating a lot of folks.
@TonyStark My only experience is with the UK Left. And mostly they were from well-heeled middle class families (possibly not the same as the US' middle class).Their Antisemitism was in their mothers' milk, goes back to well before 1948 and is built upon a stereotype of Jews as being not their sort. It's a kind of snobbery. Think Chariots of Fire. Abrahams looked down on as the pushy Jew flying in the face of the posh amateurs.
Corbyn grew up in a mansion. And so on.
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