“DIE ERDE IN BE’ERI UND IN GAZA BEBT AUF DIE GLEICHE WEISE”
"Ich bin 19 Jahre alt.
Ich komme aus dem Kibbuz Be’eri.
Für mich das Wichtigste, was ich zu sagen habe… Und so ist es seit Jahren… Wenn wir mit Raketenbeschuss angegriffen werden, geschieht das letztendlich über unsere Köpfe hinweg. Nicht die Raketen. Sie fliegen nicht über unseren Kopf hinweg. Sie treffen uns ziemlich gut. Aber die Entscheidung, mit Raketen anzugreifen, fällt über unseren Kopf hinweg. #Bibi , #Hamas – das ist mir egal. Was ich weiß, ist, dass Be’eri leidet, Nahal Oz leidet, Kfar Azza, Sderot und Gaza leiden. Und – glauben Sie mir – für jede Rakete, die aus 4,5 km Entfernung abgefeuert wird, bebt die Erde in Be’eri und #Gaza auf die gleiche Weise. Genau auf die gleiche Weise. Wir können nicht so weitermachen, wir können nicht........"
Stellungnahme von Anarchist*innen zur Lage in #Israel und #Palästina
"Wir verurteilen zutiefst die brutalen Verbrechen der Hamas gegen die israelische Zivilbevölkerung und distanzieren uns von der Hamas, die die Freiheit der Palästinenser*innen für ihre politischen, antisemitischen und religiösen Zwecke benutzt. Ebenso verurteilen wir die Verbrechen der hochgerüsteten militärischen Angriffe des Staates Israel auf die palästinensische Zivilbevölkerung.
..Unsere Vorbilder sind Kämpfe von Jüd*innen und anderen Israelis, die in Israel auf die Straße gehen, die gegen den kapitalistischen Krieg, gegen Besatzung, gegen Wehrdienst und gegen Rassismus und Sexismus sind...
Wir unterstützen die israelische Antikriegsbewegung, insbesondere die Kriegsdienstverweiger*innen der israelischen Armee ..., welche Einsätze in den besetzten Gebieten ablehnen...
Wir unterstützen insbesondere oppositionelle israelische und palästinensische Menschen und Gruppen, die eine Zusammenarbeit und Gleichberechtigung aller Bevölkerungsteile anstreben, gegen eine rassistische Siedlungspolitik sind und sich von herrschenden, nationalistischen Diskursen distanzieren."
""Liebe emanzipatorische und antiautoritäre Freiheitskämpfer*innen in #Palästina und #Israel! Euch sagen wir: Euer Kampf ist unser Kampf und wir wollen gemeinsam jeglichen Chauvinismus bekämpfen! Für eine klassenlose Gesellschaft, frei von Ausbeutung, Kolonialismus, Rassismus, Antisemitismus, Sexismus und Unterdrückung! Für eine Welt ohne Nationalstaaten und Autoritäten und der Gewalt die sie uns auferzwingen!
Angesicht der Abschottung der Grenzen des Gaza-Streifens Richtung Israel und Ägypten wurden schon vor dem Krieg menschenwürdige Lebensbedingungen für die Bevölkerung verunmöglicht und sie konnten nirgendwo hin fliehen. Daher gilt die Hauptforderug:
@anantagd But there is a conflict going on in which people get forcibly involved and co-opted by those who claim to be their leaders or (unsolicited) representatives.
What are you talking about?
Most Israelis have freely voted for the leaders they have wanted and got! Israeli Jews are since 1948 represented by the leaders they always wanted.
All Palestinians have been subjected to white imperialist violence since the crusades and 500+Year long history of Colonialism, that is ongoing, since the white British Colony Palestine has been gifted to white germanic Askenazi Jews, who are behaving from the start as white Colonizer do!
Shitty Hamas is a desperate answer to oppression and has even been financed and created by Israel out of the Muslim Brotherhood … another creation of Israel.
Like Israel's father Herzl, Israel is following Herzl's idea, that they need to create enemies and allow them to injure Jews, to keep and gain support for their plans.
@dawoderpfeffer@anantagd First of all, from an anti-authoritarian perspective I think it's important to consider also the views of people who are not okay with the current system and those who aren't and do not want to be represented or co-opted by leaders, nations and systems that (unsolicitedly, forcibly or by majority's decision) have declared/turned the others as/into "their" subjects (with no or very limited possibilities to change that easily) in whose name they then claim to commit all kinds of terrible things.
Secondly, multiple generations of people who live there don't have a direct connection to the original historical catastrophe but were and are born in the catastrophic consequences that derived from it ever since. While the knowledge about historical context matters for understanding the conflict, the present situation matters as well and that one cannot be solved or just accepted by focusing purely on the origins and past circumstances.
And finally a consistent anti-authoritarian perspective only makes sense to me if it calls out the authoritarians and authoritarian structures on either and any side instead of siding with what seems to some perhaps as a "lesser evil".
@anantagd@dawoderpfeffer And I think it is important to differentiate between the majority and the reasonable ones that reject co-optation and prefer autonomous positions.
@autonomysolidarity it's one of the few things of reality there I see these times.
Many soldiers are in their 18-21th. They dreamed of studying, going abroad on a long vacation or just enjoying live the way they want to.
Now the situation is like it is. Soldiers, not even 23 years old need to do things they absolutely dobt want to. Family's friends are horrified by the knowledge of getting back a dead body.
Its not the assholes of the politics that enter Gaza.
I don't have any connections to Gaza but it might be similar I guess.
שבת שלום לכולם ...
The typical sentence to begin a weekend. ..
I start crying I stop writing now.
Das Bild hab ich jetzt auch mehrfach gesehen. Was mich daran stört ist die Äquidistanz die es suggeriert. Es ist vollkommen richtig, dass einem Kind egal ist von wem die Bombe stammt die sein Leben beendet. Aber der Konflikt ist nicht in Qualität und Quantität der Gefahren für die Zivilbevölkerung gleich zu setzen.
One big difference though:
The majority of the people of thriving Israel freely(!) voted for Netanyahu — many times, again and again, although they knew who he is and what he wants, since he never hid his intentions!
The people in walled-up Gaza are oppressed on every level and barely surviving even at "peace time".
Additionally, ALL germanic Ashkenazi Jews or their parents/grand parents have CHOSEN to go and Colonize BIPoC people's land as SettlerColonialists, which did not happen out of the blue — but was thought up and meticulously planned by the father of Zionism white Austrian-German Ashkenazi Theodor Herzl even before 1900!
The Palestinians were there before and are enduring white military oppression since the white European Crusades and even more so since the 500+Year ongoing white Colonialism!
Mizrahi Jews and Christians lived in the same area as Palestinians — in peace, with Mosques, Churches and Synagogues right next to each other — for thousands of years and also endured White Supremacy, like the rest of the world's BIPoC!
What has seriously changed climaxed in 1948, is ongoing and very much wanted by most Jews in Israel (their election votes prove it) and especially Ashkenazi Jews, who surely are no victims in this "conflict" of SettlerColonialism and oppression of Millions of people, but active perpetrators of aggressive AntiPalestinian Racism!
This drawing is painting a very wrong image of Israeli-"innocence" propaganda!
For many Palestinians it's like the only thing that stands between annihilation by Israel's perfect Military and any opposition, is the very idea of Hamas — freedom.
Most Palestinians dislike Hamas and its methods. But there is nobody else standing up against Israel's twisted idea of "freedom".
I get what you're saying, but please get my take on your view:
You seem to have the need to stress things like "NotAllMen", "NotAllWhites" and here it is "NotAllJews" or to be more exact: "NotAllJewsInIsrael".
Why do you feel the need to insist that "AllMen" is incorrect, when it is clear, that all men benefit from Patriarchy!?
I am a man and I am saying - without a doubt: ALL fucking Men!
@DaWoDerPfeffer@Sofie@dawoderpfeffer I didn't read that she said that. And I'd say it is an (attempted) co-optation as well to push everyone in seemingly preset categories, be it in terms of gender or in terms of nationality or "the majority's decision". There are people who desperately want to break out of that and struggle for that and it's exactly these people that seem to get forgotten in this debate too, wouldn't you agree?
Just this:
Men who are actually not Sexists, or at least are actively working on getting rid of their Sexism - will NOT have a problem with being called a Sexist because of being Men! I believe the reason for this being selfexplanatory! As ALL Men, even Feminists, STILL benefit from Sexism, whether they want to or not!
@autonomysolidarity@Sofie@dawoderpfeffer
white people who are actually not Racists, or at least are actively working on getting rid of their Racism - will NOT have a problem with being called a Racist because of being white people! I believe the reason for this being selfexplanatory! As ALL white people, even AntiRacists, STILL benefit from Racism, whether they want to or not!
White people feeling attacked, is a symptom of their Racism!
@autonomysolidarity@Sofie@dawoderpfeffer
What is happening in Israel is NOT something just between Jews and Palestinians!
ALL Jews benefit from Laws in Israel, which are actively oppressing Palestinians.
Tell me how ANY adult Jew is not guilty of benefiting already from that fact!?
Additionally it is about white Ashkenazi Jews - which also suppress Mizrahi Jews and other BIPoC Jews - and the oppression of ALL Jews against ALL BIPoC NonJews
Most people in the #FediVerse see themselves as DemocracyLovers and are therefore liking the concept of "the majority's decision".
Israel is a supposedly democratic state without separation of religion from the State — in fact according to Israel's laws: the State of Israel is a JEWISH state and all other Religions are to stand back. That goes as far as religious Jews are privileged against atheist "Jews" (can be called that, as they're NOT Jewish?)
And my connecting #AllMen and #AllWhites with #AllJewsInIsrael is clearly based in Sofies imagination, that NOT all Jews are involved in this conflict.
I believe I have sufficiently been able to show, that ONLY Children are not at fault in Israel and all the rest are either guilty Perpetrators, at least as privileged beneficiaries of oppression, or helpless Victims of oppression!
Secondly, we're an anti-authortiarian and anarchist group. We don't disregard the "majority's decision" in a representative democracy but it is neither in our understanding of anarchism nor in challenging authority to disregard any minorities or to see every individual and their political, social and other agenda and agency as only part of an vague mass that has the possibility to vote once every couple of years and then remains irrelevant for the rest of it.
Regarding the guilt:
I am sorry, but as a German I have learned very early, that ONLY Children are without guilt but possibly born into shit and socialized with Racism, Sexism, AntiPalestinianRacism etc. and so far that's not the Children's fault.
BUT when these Children grow up and very much benefit from Racism etc, then they ALL become very guilty of all of it - as long as they don't UnLearn Shit!
@Sofie@dawoderpfeffer@autonomysolidarity
Therefore:
ALL white Germans are Racist because of socialization in a Racist society. As long as Germans are Children, that is not their fault!
When they grow up to adults though and do not actively getting rid of their Racism etc - UnLearn their shit ... then that is their decision and they become very much guilty of staying Racists and benefit from Racism!
Jews in Israel, who moved to Israel since 1948, are born there but Adults now and do not give a shit about what is happening and a Majority are even voting for the openly Racist ShitFucks ... are ALL benefiting from ongoing SettlerColonialism since 1948 and Racism!
Even when they're actively opposing/fighting their Racist government ... but they don't.
If you still do not get it, then consider this:
Even if I say I may be an intersectional Feminist and even when I am - of course - also suffering from many aspects of the patriarchy, I am STILL benefiting from society's Sexism and cannot get out of that!
If you don't get that, then I feel very sorry for your restricted view and understanding of how Power, Oppression and Privilege works in society!
@DaWoDerPfeffer@Sofie@dawoderpfeffer Is it possible to have this discussion without personal attacks and blaming? I think there are valid points in your argumentation as well as in hers (and of course in mine 😁 ). And I think there could also be certain dilemmas that might be hard, if not impossible to overcome here too. Yet, I think these can be debated in a perhaps more cognition-fostering way.
For instance, I see the point you make with "all men" and yet I feel this can (perhaps ironically) still become a patriarchial point/argument, once it leads to the creation of a category that uses definitions by one side of what "men" are/should be and who belongs in that category, even if there might be people who do not identify as such or reject/don't know binary categories in their perception. Get what I mean?
Regarding NonBinary and people not identifying with the Men/Women concept:
An awful guy, who I once knew, loved to talk about "two kinds of people in the world": that there are "Men and Mice"
Mice being Women, Children and Men who he doesn't see as Men and anyone who is not Man according to him, as well as all people who are Disabled in any way.
Does that clarify my definition of patriarchal Sexism that even includes Ableism in a sufficient manner?
Mmh
I may have been blocked by @Sofie and if, that is not surprising at all, as almost all white Germans really do not like to see any -Isms clearly and their own role in it, the ways how Germans benefit fron Racism etc, is the last thing Germans like to discuss ... EVER!
@DaWoDerPfeffer@dawoderpfeffer@Sofie Yeah well, why do you assume she's German? I think she stated that she isn't at one point in this debate. That's the thing with categorising people/pigeonholing and the false assumptions that might lead to.
Furthermore it appears to me that she might've had less an issue with the topic itself and more with the tone.
@autonomysolidarity@dawoderpfeffer@Sofie
She speaks German, lives in Germany, is clearly white and therefore has white privilege.
Her actual citizenship is here completely irrelevant, because it is about privileges, white socialisation and her funny idea, of #NotAllJewsInIsrael - which I believe I have addressed and explained in detail with examples.
Since she blocked me, I can't see her possible reactions and won't be able to address her concerns.
Mmh.
For me #AllMen is as true as #AllWhites, #AllGermans and #AllIsraeli, simply because it is the overwhelming majority of all of them AND the minorities who may not be like that, have no power at all to change what is happening!
For example: #AllMen will always be true as long as Men benefit from the Patriarchy and as long as the few Men who do not want this are completely help- and powerless of destroying the Patriarchy AND will even be stopped by complicit women, if they would try.
Sooo fucking ALL MEN!
I thought it better to be clear that I don't hold all Israeli citizens responsible as I know there are also Israeli who work for a just future for Israel/Palestine, before I get another "you're an antisemite" from a German anarchist defending the State of Israel ... And now this German anarchist account is sweeping the power differences in this situation under the carpet, which isn't very anarchist to me.
@Heidentweet@dawoderpfeffer It's not sweeping the power differences in this situation under the carpet. It's making a statement against the cooptation and subjugation of people by leaders, systems and their (proclaimed) "greater causes".
@Heidentweet@dawoderpfeffer It seems like we're having a fundamentally different interpretation of the picture then. Which I guess is fine.
However as anti-authoritarians we stand with the point that the opposition against any state's/leaders' co-optation of people especially in such a conflict is a key element to break through the "logic" that causes and/or feeds these conflicts and oppressions.
That does not mean that we equate or sweep under the carpet the differences in power/agency/suffering or that we'd speak out against solidarity with the victims of this war and of any oppression in Palestine or that we'd support Israel (as we do not support or sympathise with any states and their militaries, neither do we do that with authoritarians who claim to oppose them. Yet we aim to differenciate and again, we try to point out to be against the co-optations and whatever else states and leaders do to throw people in the meatgrinder and to dehumanise the others).
@anantagd@Heidentweet@dawoderpfeffer And I think it's a bit too easy to forget all these people who are anti-authoritarians and radical critics not only of their government but of the state(s) and its structural oppressions. Or those individuals who were just born into this awful situation, who perhaps try to find a way out of it in their possibilities or grew desperate over failing to do so - that all these exist even if they might not be in any majority or larger faction or that they don't have a possibility to (re)present their positions. Yet these people get co-opted by "their" rulers and get framed and treated as the enemy by the others' rulers too.
Isn't it misreading too to simply ignore or disregard that even if or especially when it might be presumably a minority?
@anantagd@Heidentweet@dawoderpfeffer I can see your interpretation of the picture. But I can also see that there are indeed drawings of what could be called the prototypical understanding of an "average family" but that the point (or one of more) that can be derived from the picture goes beyond that (and obviously beyond the original artist's intention whatever that might be). As for realising the rest of what you stated, I don't really disagree with you.
"Das Ziel dieser Gruppe von Arbeiter*innen im Hafen von Barcelona ist es, zum Schutz des Lebens der Bevölkerung in Kriegsgebieten beizutragen. 'Wir wollen nicht verantwortlich sein für das, was passiert, weder in aktuellen noch in zukünftigen Kriegen' , sagte der Gewerkschafter"
Dazu setzen die Hafenarbeiter*innen ein Protokoll um, das Schiffe mit Waffenlieferungen an Bord dazu zwingen soll, einen anderen Hafen als ihren anzusteuern. Sie hoffen, dass sich diese Praxis an immer mehr Häfen durchsetzen wird.
In #Belgien, #Tacoma und #Oakland weigern sich ebenfalls Hafenarbeiter*innen an Waffenlieferungen mitzuwirken und haben erklärt, diese blockieren zu wollen.
Statement by anarchists on the situation in #Israel and #Palestine
"We deeply condemn the brutal crimes of Hamas against Israeli civilians and distance ourselves from Hamas, which uses the freedom of Palestinians* for its political, anti-Semitic and religious purposes. Likewise, we condemn the crimes of the State of Israel's highly armed military attacks against the Palestinian civilian population.
...Our role models are struggles of Jews and other Israelis who take to the streets in Israel, who are against capitalist war, against occupation, against military service, and against racism and sexism....
We support the Israeli anti-war movement, especially the conscientious objectors of the Israeli army ... who reject operations in the occupied territories....
We especially support oppositional Israeli and Palestinian people and groups who seek cooperation and equality for all segments of the population, oppose racist settlement policies, and distance themselves from dominant nationalist discourses." https://barrikade.info/article/6157
via @Niushahttps://t.me/vbnmgdst/6061
"Dear emancipatory and anti-authoritarian freedom fighters in #Palestine and #Israel! To you we say: Your struggle is our struggle and together we want to fight all chauvinism! For a classless society, free from exploitation, colonialism, racism, anti-Semitism, sexism and oppression! For a world without nation states and authorities and the violence they impose on us!
With Gaza’s borders closed to Israel and Egypt, even before the war, decent living conditions for the population were made impossible and they had nowhere to flee to. Therefore, the main demand is:
Open borders for people!
Close the borders for all weapons!"
The text was written jointly by some leftist and anarchist diaspora activists from the Middle East and Jewish people.
Dockworkers of the Organització d'Estibadors Portuaris de Barcelona (OEPB) refuse to process shipments for arms of war to #Israel at #Barcelona sea port.
Translation from the article:
"The aim of this group of workers* at the Port of Barcelona is to help protect the lives of civilians in war zones. 'We don't want to be responsible for what happens, neither in current wars nor in future wars', said the trade unionist"
To this end, the dockers are implementing a protocol to force ships with arms shipments on board to head for a sea port other than theirs in Barcelona. They hope that this practice will spread to more and more docks and harbours.
In #Belgium, #Tacoma and #Oakland, dockworkers are also refusing to participate in arms shipments and have declared their intention to block them.
'A separate source told the publication the Gospel had allowed the IDF to run a “mass assassination factory” in which the “emphasis is on quantity and not on quality”. A human eye, they said, “will go over the targets before each attack, but it need not spend a lot of time on them”.
For some experts who research #AI and international humanitarian law, an acceleration of this kind raises a number of concerns.
Dr Marta Bo, a researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, said that even when “humans are in the loop” there is a risk they develop “automation bias” and “over-rely on systems which come to have too much influence over complex human decisions”.
Moyes, of Article 36, said that when relying on tools such as the Gospel, a commander “is handed a list of targets a computer has generated” and they “don’t necessarily know how the list has been created or have the ability to adequately interrogate and question the targeting recommendations”.
“There is a danger,” he added, “that as humans come to rely on these systems they become cogs in a mechanised process and lose the ability to consider the risk of civilian harm in a meaningful way.” '
@autonomysolidarity Irgendwie schon, nur wie solidarisch willst Du sein wenn das Opfer selbst zuvor Akteur war?
Wie solidarisch zu jenen die Mitläufer sind? Also den Terror gegen andere billigen, eelche die Opfer erst hervorbringen?
Ich denke Du gehst davon aus dass auch die radikalen Israelis viel zum Umstand beigetragen haben. Man denke da an ein 12jähriges Kind dass mit anderen im Grenzbereich spielte und dann, mutmaßlich aus versehen von einem israelischen Soldaten erschossen wurde und der Vater dieses Kindes dann, obwohl Muslime, sein getötetes Kind zur Organspende frei gab, damit einem israelisch jüdischen Mädchen das Leben (Spenderherz) rettete, dafür aber nicht einmal ein Danke erhielt sondern Hass erntete. Denselben Hass, welchen dieser Vater auch unter seinesgleichen erfuhr ...
Dort und bei soviel Hass, von beiden Seiten, wird es wirklich schwer zwischen Täter und Opfer noch zu unterscheiden 😓
Allerdings denke ich dass diese Aktion inszeniert wurde. Putin und Iran seien hier genannt. Beide hassen den Westen, sind Diktaturen und haben uns längst den Krieg erklärt. Und was könnte Putin jetzt mehr zuspielen als eine 2.te Front.
Jetzt kämpft Israel genauso wie die Ukrainer um den Erhalt ihrer - und auch unser - Freiheit und Demokratie !!!
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