I wouldn’t trust them if they had a signed video confession. These places operate a certain way and Americans are great for leverage at various levels of government.
The idea that you just have loose ammo in the folds of your bags instead of crumbs is so insane and also so stereotypical of americans. 12 years is a little much but I have less sympathy since the US constantly locks citizens of other countries away for longer for less dangerous offences.
Like around here if you store ammo inappropriately like this will get your gun license yoinked permanently faster than you can blink. Like the dangerous part of owning guns is the ammo, without it guns are just an ineffective club, and ammo can go off without a gun.
Oh you sweet summer child. When I was in college, my lacrosse team was traveling for an away game. My teammate forgot he had shotgun shells in his bag. First of all, they didn’t find it until the way BACK. Second, he received no legal punishment.
Oh you sweet old-timer, things have changed in the past half century. Except in Texas and Alaska and probably Montana or something, but nobody goes there anyway.
Ammo can go off without a gun, yes, but is significantly less dangerous. The casing just sort of takes off and you have deal with much lower velocity soft casing rather than a bullet. Still can end up with some wounds but the deadliness is practically nullified.
12 years is pretty ridiculous. OTOH, you are unknowingly traveling with live ammo. I’m less bothered by the ammo part than the unknowing part, but in combination - yeah that needs to be more than a slap on the wrist.
You have just demonstrated your inability to keep track of the important bits related to your deadly weapon. Maybe you don’t need to own a deadly weapon if that’s an indicator of how you treat it.
So I’m all for “restorative justice” but I do think this should get more than a stern talking to.
Everyone is for restorative justice until it’s someone or something they don’t like.
Only the left is for restorative justice. The right is for maximum punishment, and no mercy. Especially if you don’t look like they do.
OTOH the right seems pretty into personal responsibility - until it’s someone or something they do like.
It used to be a fine, which was more than a “stern talking to” and seems pretty reasonable for a careless act that hurt noone.
And if you are for restorative justice, and you think prison time for this is a good idea, then it doesn’t matter if other people are hypocrites as you absolutely are.
I love this. This is my current favourite part of the timeline where Americans are treated with the same hypocrisy they demand of everyone else globally. Then whine and complain as always, and the other government just doesn’t care. Stay strong Turks and Caicos, makes me want to buy one of your citizenships so much more.
Cool, let me know how their tourism industry turns out after they finish.
I’m sure getting all of this press is worth it if they scare away the people of the richest nation in the western hemisphere that is closest geographically to their tiny islands.
You know one of the reasons why Cuban tourism was then wasn’t then now is so popular? Because Muricans can’t go there. Seriously. People would flock from all over North America, except Murica, to Cuba and get to enjoy a civil holiday devoid of a bunch of angry yelling tourists demanding they do thing a certain correct way.
Countries like this in the world today in 2024, will be just fine. American tourism is declining to the point of irrelevance for everybody but the 1% Americans. The Chinese have the crown but COVID paused their global ambitions. There are many tourists that try to go out of their way to avoid American hotspots when on holiday for good reason.
You decided to use a country that can’t even feed itself and is currently going through the worst economic crisis in it’s history as your example of a success because of a lack of American tourists… Riiigghhhtt
Just like Iran, these issues are caused by the US and economic warfare, ie sanctions. Learn about how your country enables Genocide all over the world before replying again.
Lol, you picked the example using that big brain of yours bro. It’s amazing that you think an absolute failure of a state like Cuba is a shining example of how a Caribbean country survives without American tourists.
Lol, you’ve never gone shooting then and it shows. A case of ammo, I can understand but two rounds is nothing and should be a fine and on your way. They aren’t smuggling anything of real value.
I suspect we’ll see a lot more of these stories in the news. If you want to get rid of your SO it would be so easy to send them on a vacation to Grand Turk and drop a few rounds in their suitcase. Bye, Bye wifey for 18 years.
They can join whomever they want. If they want to partner with the second largest economy in the Northern Hemisphere which is a fraction of the size of the US in population go for it.
Do you have anything that actually indicates any of these people who have been arrested there demanded that this exact thing happen to everyone else globally? Outside of that, it just reeks of dealing with the cognitive dissonance of thinking you care about justice, but having a vengeful attitude towards Americans, probably because you have a low opinion of America’s politics.
12 years for accidentally bringing 4 rounds into a foreign country for a husband and father of two? Regardless of what you think of this guy, that is extreme.
A father of two carelessly leaving ammunition lying around? That guy should neither have guns nor children. The length of the prison sentence is definitely excessive so it matches perfectly well with the US justice system.
So you are worried about them smuggling bullets 2 at a time INTO the U.S.? Seems pretty ineffective. This is just advocating for harassing people over doing something stupid with no intent to hurt anyone. They needed to be more responsible, give them a fine. Imprisonment should be recouperating people
No they flew out of the U.S. and TSA missed the bullets. They finished their trip, then they were stopped getting on the plane back to the U.S. They would be smuggling them into the U.S. If they were stopped going to that country, they would have been stopped by TSA and questioned on U.S. soil. For the most part, there isn’t airport security when you get off a plane or switch terminals if you have a layoff
If they got caught with 4 rounds on their way out, then there’s no telling how many they brought with them. A smuggler would be incentivized to downplay and minimize their crime. Maybe that’s why the penalty is so heavy.
If they brought 0 out there is no telling how many they brought in, locking up people for 12 years for a crime they didnt see is ridiculous. Comparison example: Person pulled over driving back into Colorado has a finished roach in his ash tray. Would you think imprisonment for 12 years on the chance that they smuggled pounds of weed to a non-recreational state next door? Or would you say they were an idiot for putting a roach (stray bullets) in a car ashtray (carrying bag) and traveling across a border where it isn’t legal on one side. I’d give that person a fine as well. (Assuming they can pass a DUI test and they weren’t high at the time they were driving).
Comparison example: Person pulled over driving back into Colorado has a finished roach in his ash tray. Would you think imprisonment for 12 years on the chance that they smuggled pounds of weed to a non-recreational state next door?
They are not in America? The legal standard is likely different. I think being that I’m not from Turks & Caicos makes my opinion on their prison-terms irrelevant. I do think it’s a mistake as an American for my fellow Americans to travel around the world while acting like the laws and general legal-systems of other countries operate exactly the same as ours.
Please try not to take my prior post to this one too seriously. It was a lazy way for me to try to illustrate the idea I laid out in this post. My only real point is this: When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Maybe TSA didn’t miss the bullets, at least from what I read. They don’t care if you have bullets in checked luggage, and they don’t care about foreign laws on ammo. And customs only gets serious when you’re entering the country.
Many countries check your checked lugage at immigration, when you enter. Again it is not clear from the article, but I could easily imagine folks getting busted at immigration upon entering the Turks and Caicos. Also, some countries check bags on departure, to cut down on smuggling of turtles or artifacts or whatever.
There is zero evidence that any of these people arrested were intentionally bringing ammo into their country. The woman in the article was actually caught with 2 rounds in her bag when she was leaving the country.
12 years seems like a long time, but a couple years of prison for bringing a weapon to a country that has illegalized those weapons and states very clearly that you can be prosecuted for bringing those weapons?
Oh, thanks, I thought I read the woman had ammunition only, but the four earlier tourists were carrying guns. They were apparently not!
Still, if the airport explicitly tells you not to carry firearm ammunition into the country under penalty of prosecution, and then you carry firearm ammunition into the country, you can’t be shocked by prosecution.
Please back this claim up, because I honestly believe it’s completely made up. Because even someone else in this thread points to another case where it was just 4 rounds of ammo.
She got prosecuted for attempting to take the 2 rounds of ammo OUT of the country not IN. Those 2 rounds in cost about 40 cents (for both) here. Assuming they were 9mm rounds, as they are the most popular rounds around.
Whoa there, I do believe that’s heresy in the United States. Punishment is a range day with someone entirely too enthusiastic about esoteric gun details like barrel twist.
Guns of course not, ammo kinda yeah? It can kinda get everywhere when you go out shooting. If you don’t have strictly segregated bags for international travel vs a bag for going to the range or taking hunting then it’s pretty easy to find old loose ammo in your bag or stuck in your coat when you don’t expect it. I do have a range backpack that also gets used for other hobbies but never travels with me just in case but like, I get it. I’ve more than once had an empty cartridge fall out of a jacket multiple days after last shooting.
Same here, I try not to mix travel bags with bags I carry ammo and weapons in. Rounds and shells have a tendency of getting everywhere. I could totally see how this could happen to anyone who has guns and shoots regularly.
In the army we weren’t even allowed to have missing spent brass, fucking live ammo is instant ucmj, but you keep on dumping your ammo into the beer cooler Cletus. Such a responsible and intelligent gun owner, so proud.
I accidentally brought back lime 60 rounds of 556 from Afghanistan in one of my uniforms, mps didn’t catch it and I only noticed months later when I was going through my old uniforms lmao
Yeah this is psychotic my ammo bag is never used for anything else except ammo. It would never occur to me to take it on vacation. Why would I even want to? I don’t even believe these people.
Exactly. It was one of the first things they told us in the training classes. I still don’t understand why they aren’t mandatory prior to owning a gun.
But then you get that awkward situation where you go on vacation, open your luggage to get a fresh pair of socks or whatever, and find that you brought nothing but guns and ammo along with you on your trip.
TSA confirmed to CBS News its officers missed the four rounds of hunting ammo in Watson’s carry-on when he and his wife departed from Oklahoma City in April. A spokesperson for the agency told CBS News the TSA is addressing the oversight internally.
It’s a shit job with shit pay to deal with assholes all day and you don’t even know if you’ll get that shit pay if congress can’t come up with a deal every few months. I don’t blame them.
I blame them. I see people doing literal shit jobs (cleaning bathrooms) every day for shittier pay and they even have a smile in their faces from time to time. They definitely don’t go out of their way to be assholes to everyone around them and spread their misery.
It’s an organization culture thing. I’ve been to airports where they just do their jobs, and I’ve been to ones where they think they’re cops and act accordingly: as bastards.
I asked whether the cancer box was compulsory or whether I could get a pat-down instead. What followed was a difference of labeling opinion where one debater had ultimate power over the other. I had to get reeeeally Canadian to still make my flight.
If you’re worried about radiation, don’t get on an airplane at all. You’ll get a lot more being that high in the atmosphere than you will walking through a security scanner.
The latest I’ve personally witnessed was one sadistically mishandling an obviously expensive violin to torture the poor girl that was trying to get through X-ray to embark.
That was in Houston, and other people I know that live the say that going through TSA there is always between bad and terrible. I’ve been to Memphis and they were fine.
I don’t understand how ammo ends up in someone’s luggage. It’s not like people pack their ammo in luggage to go to the gun range. but I know someone that works for TSA and I believe they said finding bullets in luggage is the most common way people get in trouble.
It’s simple. I don’t need different bags for specific purposes. That’s wasteful. I just use the same bags for range time and travel. Obviously I couldn’t tell you how a whole ass gun gets left in there, but I could see a few accidental rounds or casings.
I got stopped going into Canada and their dog got a hit on my bag in the back of my truck. They accused my wife and I for over an hour of trying to bring weapons into Canada. Told them the dog has a good sniffer and that I frequently use that bag at the range, but that I was in fact just traveling to visit national parks and that if I was bringing in guns to their country it wouldn’t be through a major point of entry and would be in the thousands of miles of semi-unmonitored border.
I want to know why. Are they going to gun stores while traveling and saying, “holy shit! Hornady Critical Defense 9mm for $20 a box‽ I can’t pass this deal up!” That’s the only thing I can think of.
TLDR: Bring backpack to the range finish with a round left put it in the backpack. Forget to take it out. Go on vacation months later “Oh I should bring my backpack for hiking”.
Oh, well that’s because sometimes it falls out of the box when you’re loading. It’s especially tricky if you’re trying to load while driving, I can tell you! Ha ha.
I have various bags that get used for range trips and travel. I am METICULOUS about clearing the gun stuff out of a bag when I’m done. Same with my vehicle, as I cross an international border from time to time and don’t want my truck getting ripped apart. Every bit of gun stuff that goes in the truck on range day is accounted for and removed when I get home.
The real answer is simple. These people are irresponsible fuckwits that give responsible gun owners a shitty name. You can see it every time you go to the range. People shooting the ceiling, people turning around with a pistol in hand and muzzling the whole room. There are a metric fuck ton of people with guns in the US that shouldn’t be considered qualified to own them.
And we’ve tried everything from “making guns easier to get” to “absolutely nothing,” and we’re out of ideas.
I really wish we could have a good faith conversation in this country about the intersections between rights and responsibilities. Until then, I’m fine with people going to prison in foreign countries for this kinda crap.
Lefty gun owner here, and we haven’t done “nothing” but certainly not enough. Gun control advocates have always done things that feel good and do nothing to prevent violence. Magazine capacity bans (one columbine shooter had 14 ten round ban compliant mags) and bans on cosmetic features like heat shrouds and pistol grips do absolutely nothing to keep anyone safer. People will just train to be effective with pesky ban compliant features, or, you know, ignore the law.
Michigan did something great in response to a school shooting. If a child or otherwise restricted person gains access to your firearms and harms someone, you get slapped with a major felony, a law that’s already been put to use a few times. So it basically makes a safe mandatory by placing the fear of a lengthy sentence on leaving your guns out for kids to grab. It’s something.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing an actual proficiency test, one that weeds out the lowest common denominator. I have sought training and education consistently over years to participate in competitive shooting events, and I’ve literally shot with cops that I wouldn’t let clean their gun in my kitchen. The “test” for a concealed carry license is a joke, id like to see a true test of safety knowledge to even own a firearm.
That’s one part of Canadian law I could be okay with. Keep carry permits (with additional training and testing). Keep American castle doctrine and self defense laws that provide protection for reasonable use of force. Add a fast track to purchase for victims of domestic abuse or stalking.
I’m unwavering in my belief that people should have the right to lethally defend from mortal threats and sexual assault. Canadian law affords very little legal protection for such cases. That’s at least one part we get right.
I never put gun stuff in anything other than a range bag, and I never take range bags traveling. I don’t understand - are these people using their travel luggage as range bags? I can’t say I’ve ever seen someone at the range unloading ammo from a suitcase.
Your situation is a bit different, though. You’re actually driving across the border. I can see accidentally leaving some range gear in a vehicle, and especially ammo if you tote it separately as you might with rifle or shotgun shooting. Your diligence is commendable, and wise considering you’re crossing one of the two borders we have.
Ultimately, the only person I trust with a firearm is me. It sounds as if you’re more charitable than that, but we agree there are a lot of people who really shouldn’t have guns.
You definitely might use the same backpack or tote to go out to the range as to go on a weekend trip. Drive to a hunting holiday with friends, then use the same bags for a trip to Disney with the kids. If you’re going somewhere, you use the bags you have.
Victimless crime. Who says they’re not smuggling ammo into the country to use for criminal activity? You only need to fire a single bullet to kill someone.
It’s more than correct that they’re detained and go to trial. I don’t think anyone is actually sentenced yet?
I also assume 12 years is the upper limit for possession here.
Also it was leaving the country to fly to the U.S. where they could purchase it again legally, so not much of a reason to give them 12 years of prison. (Note: if they were bringing guns and cases of ammo it’s another story, but 2 loose rounds without a gun, a knife is a much bigger threat)
Who says they’re not smuggling ammo into the country to use for criminal activity? You only need to fire a single bullet to kill someone.
The woman in question was traveling with her daughter, and was caught with 2 rounds of ammo in her bag when leaving the country. If you are trying to smuggle it in, why are you bringing it back out?
But if they can prove that she was trying to smuggle ammo into the country, what the law was meant for, then yes please let her burn. But “she might have been, so it’s fine she is doing prison time despite it almost certainly just being a dumb mistake” doesn’t sit well with me at all. I don’t believe it It should sit well with anyone who claims to care about justice.
I also assume 12 years is the upper limit for possession here.
You really think someone should do prison time for making a mistake that didn’t even hurt anyone?
I mean, you’re travelling internationally, check your damn bag. You think if a couple of Turkish dudes got caught with ammo in their luggage they’d do great in the states? Don’t like getting in trouble overseas? Don’t break the laws overseas.
I think getting smacked with a cane for smoking weed is dumb. Still won’t catch me with weed in Singapore though. Best believe I triple checked my bags when I left Europe too.
I absolutely agree that they should have been more careful. But justice is justice. . .so do you believe they deserve to do jail time for being stupid/careless when presumably no one was harmed?
My point is being ignorant is insufficient a defence for these type of offences. My opinion of whether they “deserve” it isn’t really relevant. The law is the law. If I get fucked up and drove; I could claim it was a stupid mistake and no one was harmed if I got pulled over and arrested. That doesn’t really matter and isn’t why it’s a law. I believe they should be charged and given lighter sentences and/or the US should apply for clemency on their behalf but my point remains it’s the discretion of local law enforcement.
My point is being ignorant is insufficient a defence for these type of offences.
Well you neither said this, and it was in response to someone explaining that they shouldnt be punished because it was an accident and thus a victimless crime.
And this whole thing is about us leaders lobbying to go easy on these people, so I hope you see why I didn’t realize what you were actually supposedly arguing.
Of course it is up to local law enforcement. I’ve seen no one argue or suggest otherwise.
Well you neither said this, and it was in response to someone explaining that they shouldnt be punished because it was an accident and thus a victimless crime.
It’s implied with my previous remarks. It being an accident/mistake is synonymous with pleading ignorance in this instance.
Of course it is up to local law enforcement. I’ve seen no one argue or suggest otherwise.
People saying it’s harmless or a simple mistake are actively undermining local law enforcement whether they know it or not. I’ve seen this countless times before. People get charged with crimes overseas, some that perhaps they wouldn’t at home. Then rather it being a simple matter of if said person did what they’re accused of doing it becomes “oh this countries law are ridiculous, this person simply didn’t know, local law enforcement is corrupt” and so on. Whatever it takes to remove accountability of the person and blame the host country or its law enforcement either directly or indirectly.
I guess what I’m arguing is if you can’t check your bags, read a foreign travel advisory or even pay attention to intercom announcements while you touch down; don’t come crying foul play to the consulate with your drug charge expecting to get a clemency plea. Just to be oddly specific.
I don’t really follow your point. All we’re doing here is pointing out how ridiculous it is that someone might spend a decade in prison for accidentally having 2 bullets in their bag and how much a travesty of justice it is.
Everyone agrees, be careful and don’t break the law especially in a foreign country. These people were dumb for not being careful.
But the law is blatantly unjust. They made a mistake. What does sending them to prison for 10 years do? I’m pretty sure these people won’t ever even travel to t&c again, and if they do they will triple check their bags. No prison time necessary, the point has been driven home I’m sure.
And plus this is not what the law is targeting, it is about gang violence. It’s not even in the spirit of the law.
You really want these people to spend ten years in prison for no reason at all strictly because they broke the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit. Why?
Yeah the hypocrisy of the US government is the glaring thing here. Do as I say, not as I do. The US holds black children in prison for life for some marijuana, or random internationals in Guantanamo for decades. The projection is central.
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