I want to talk about #Brics but I suspect I'll be attacked the moment I open my mouth because it isn't aligned with the current US narrative. 🙃
Better to talk about #CDramas on #mastodon. 😅
I may write a blog post of the notes I've made - I don't think I'm informed enough about #geopolitics to give a solid commentary, but the common topics I've seen around Brics:
@wigbert In fact, I experienced it FAR WORSE on Mastodon. It's amazing how chauvinistic & condescending people can be, especially if they're from a country with an idea that they're exceptional....
In my privileged position, I know very well, that my personal experience can be quite different.
So, beside the reply guys, mansplainers and an underlying #racism unawareness - I add the condescending chauvinism and “arrogant first-world entitlement” to the list to watch out for …
@liztai Not everybody here is US, but having seen these debates I know what you mean.
I read your posts with great interest and meant to reply earlier, as Europe also has a bit of an issue how different states with different ideologies can cooperatote, although the gap is not as wide as in BRICS.
In the end I didn't comment because I don't really know so much about BRICS and are busy with other work.
So this is just meant as encouragement for you to write more about your views.
@StephanMatthiesen Aww thank you. I didn't realise it was such a thing - not believing that different states with different ideologies can cooperate.
Because that's essentially what ASEAN is. We've been doing this for decades, so this criticism is odd to me. In fact, I'm rather amused by it.
If ASEAN can do it, so can others. It depends on whether they want to. Problem is, some countries want to be top dog no matter what bloc they join.
@liztai For an European this also feels strange. We grew up learning that the European Union (and its predecessor organisations) was founded after the Second World War to bring old enemies together to sort out differences in a peaceful way.
I understand ASEAN has similar aims, but I need to learn more...
But US politics seems just so polarised, ideological and extremist that I find it really hard to talk to any US-citizen about politics. but the world is more complex.
@StephanMatthiesen It's nigh impossible to talk to ordinary US citizens about global politics, I find. There are really informed ones, and they're usually the more travelled ones. What's galling is that their thought leaders are pretty ignorant about world affairs, or lack nuance, so all they do is parrot the usual narrative. It's pretty frustrating -_-
@StephanMatthiesen I read an opinion piece from a US pundit about BRICS, and it basically "Brics is a nothingburger" because it "isn't a military bloc", "there's no BRICS currency" ... and I'm like, dude, have you even been reading news from global outlets (nope, I bet)? It never set out to be NATO, even BRICS members admit that a new currency to replace the dollar is a long way off. I mean, I'm not even a pundit and I KNOW THIS.
The ignorance is frustrating lol.
@liztai Well, the EU also isn't a military bloc and it took half a century to develop a common currency and not all members use it...
So this all sounds very familiar to me and I (and probably most Europeans) have no problem understanding the concept of organisations like ASEAN or BRICS.
@StephanMatthiesen@liztai I have similar concerns regarding these discussions. It's very, very, to see people in the US (in particular) comment on a wide range of topics as if the US perspective is the only valid one.
Or worse, that the US perspective is the only one that exists.
This comes from people who are otherwise incredibly friendly and I believe honestly wanting to do the right thing. It's just so difficult to understand that not every place is like the US.
@loke@StephanMatthiesen "that the US perspective is the only one that exists" and "the US perspective is the only valid one." is precisely the frustration I have with political discussions, especially on Mastodon lol I don't have that much trouble on Twitter, ironically, to find diverse views. But I don't do that on Twitter as much.
@liztai@loke
I think that's an issue of the language: English language mastodon is quite dominated by the US, but Europeans tend to post in their respective languages.
@liztai@StephanMatthiesen I'm not going to deny it could be the case, and it's probably a contributing factor.
However, I would place a greater weight on a lot of US people simply are not familiar with these things, because their media doesn't talk about it, and they tend to travel abroad less than people from pretty much every other country.
Here on Mastodon, at least in the circles of the people I follow, there isn't really the same combative culture as there are on other platforms.
I do know some local Singaporeans who love to try to educate people with UCAS (US Cultural Assumption Syndrome) on some of the other major social networks, but the resulting debates are not the kinds of debates that I would like to be part of. I guess I'm just way too old for that.
@loke@StephanMatthiesen Had to laugh about UCAS haha! I don't like these debates either. It's exhausting.
You actually have a point about the media exposure - Kishore Mahbubani, a well-known SEA thought leader & former diplomat said the same thing when asked why US folks don't entertain different narratives. Meanwhile, at least for me, I make a concerted effort to read from global media.
Though US media has been getting harder to read as it's very hate-filled & condescending these days.
@loke@StephanMatthiesen And when I mean global, I really mean global. Jakarta Post, SCMP, Xinhua, Global Times, NYTimes... you name it. Habit of a former world news editor.
@liztai@StephanMatthiesen Agreed. I don't read as broad range of sources as you, but I tend to look up CNA, Svt (Swedish media), SCMP, Al Jazeera, and whatever US media I get randomly linked to.
@StephanMatthiesen@loke I've been watching a lot of African Youtubers. I got an interesting perspective on the Nigeria situation and was pretty horrified that France was literally sucking their income from them since independence. Gah.
This was not covered in the Western media -_-
@liztai@loke
Yes, the role of France in extracting ressources and also supporting corrupt regimes is not really discussed much here regarding the Niger coup, this looks very different when you read local media.
But (as a German) our role isn't great either. Much of German politics in Africa in the last decades was just basically about stopping Africans from coming to Europe, not really about building partnerships.
@StephanMatthiesen@loke I think as we read more and more perspectives, we realise that none of us come from countries that are really sin-free. With that realisation, we will be able to form some kind of nuance to our interpretation of events and learn to recognise propaganda.
@liztai@loke
One of the most useful advice a teacher at school once gave me: Go into the library every week and read the international newspapers.
This was before we could get them on the internet, and of course I could only read German and (with more difficulties) English, but it was so much more diverse than the local newspaper and TV news.
I guess you're right. I don't have any first-hand experience of US, but I live in the UK and here people (including journos) don't know other languages, don't read media even from neighbouring countries.
Foreign reporting the UK media report is almost exclusively from US. Even Australia features more than neighbouring France or Spain, because of language.
And report are rarely original from the country, only what London journos heard from other journos about it.
@StephanMatthiesen@loke I find it quite entertaining and fun to read and compare how different media outlets from different countries cover a story. Interestingly I find China's Global Times, while the blandest, the most factual. Hah!
@liztai@StephanMatthiesen For foreign news, yes. It's also always funny to read SCMP's take on Singapore news. I think they want to fuel some kind of HK vs. SG rivalry.
(Background: I'm a South African who is unhappy with the state of his country's government and of the levels of corruption, who has Russian and Brazilian and Indian friends who are unhappy with the state of their countries' governments and of the levels of corruption.)
@passenger Oh man, I don't even dare to say it out loud. I really don't want drama lol. I can only see it from a high level POV. But speaking as someone from an equally troubled country, politics is rarely clean and corrupt-free. What I'm interested in is how ASEAN will navigate this. We're in a weird place where everyone wants to be our friend, but our stance has always been neutrality.
Well, that sounds even more interesting. If you do write it as a blog post or something, please give me a heads-up; I know little about ASEAN and would love the opportunity to learn.
@passenger Well for one, that criticism about BRICS not made up of countries of common ideologies is very odd to me. ASEAN is exactly that. In fact, I find we share a lot of similarities with BRICS.
But personally I'm nervous with the idea of Russia being a member lol.
That's an interesting take, thanks. I definitely agree that Russia is a problem, although before that if you had asked me "which awful nationalist demagogue is going to start a war to distract people from the economic problems and the rise of the communist opposition?", I'd have guessed Modi.
The thing that makes me most nervous about BRICS is how unequal it is. South Africa is a poor nation of 61 million people. How can we speak as equals in the company of giants like India and China? We can't, it's a polite fiction, just like talking to the west. Does ASEAN have similar worries, and how do you confront them?
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