"the cars can be taken down to the Japanese company's hydrogen refuelling station in Melbourne's west, just a 20-minute drive from the company's headquarters"
"Filling up takes less than five minutes"
So we're at 45min to fill up which is longer than a modern EV's 10-80% charge time?
"Hydrogen refuelling stations opened recently include a $2.5 million facility"
@Rjdlandscapes the real issue is the electricity required to produce the hydrogen. At this stage of the transition we don’t have enough to electrify everything so wasting power by using a huge amount to produce hydrogen for vehicles won’t advance the transition. #ElectrifyEverything#greenhydrogen#hydrogenvehicles
@Lats@Rjdlandscapes The bigger issue than not enough electricity, is not enough electricity when the new loads (eg, BEV, GSHP) require it on a JIT grid. Ie. Supply-load mismatch. Electrolysers, being a variable load intrinsically, are a better fit to mismatched electricity generation.
@icanbob@Rjdlandscapes the ability to make hydrogen when the sun shines is a big strength. I will be very interested to see if it can be used to fill electricity gaps and provide surge capacity.
@icanbob@Lats you've either got to compress it or super chill it, both have big losses, and losses over time, it's a nightmare to store and you've a further huge loss when you turn it back into useful energy
Nobody going for short or long term storage will accept that
@Rjdlandscapes@Lats I guess it is a matter of perspective. It is winter in these parts and last time I drove in my inefficient IC car the cabin heat from those losses was quite useable.
@Lats@Rjdlandscapes In your H2=bad narrative you mentioned grid storage. How does Enervenue’s H2 tech fit? Wrt to the 20% loss in electrolysis how about Hysata, solid oxide steam, or any electrolysis in CHP mode? On fuel cell efficiency what about AFC, SOFC or any FC in CHP mode or at partial load?
@Lats@Rjdlandscapes Allow me to offer a different perspective which states same. Electricity and Hydrogen are the 2 energy currencies that we need to evolve towards to address climate. Electricity is distributed to its loads on a JIT grid. Hydrogen is distributed to its loads on a grid with intrinsic storage. Electrolysers are an electricity load which creates the H2 currency. Fuel cells are a H2 load which creates the electricity currency.
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@Lats@Rjdlandscapes As currencies, both electricity and H2 need to be created from an energy source. From a climate perspective both currency grids have a carbon footprint. When deciding how best to deploy a low carbon source the carbon footprint of both grids should be counted together. Eg. Renewable electricity should first be used to offset fossil electricity. Surplus (curtailed) electricity should be used to create H2 to offset the H2 carbon footprint.
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@Lats@Rjdlandscapes Fossil fuels can be viewed as an energy source and a currency. BEVs and heat pumps are examples of electricity services/loads which offset carbon footprint from a fossil currency. FCEVs, green steel and syn fuels are H2 loads which do same. When making investment decisions about services we should not be arguing about round trip efficiencies of individual tech, but rather optimizing carbon footprint of the whole electricity + H2 ecosystem.
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@icanbob@Rjdlandscapes all makes sense as we are transitioning and while coal power exists it needs to be used effectively. You always hear the argument that BEVs are coal powered which is less and less true as more renewables come online and how we have huge amounts of solar energy going to waste due to coal plants being unable to ramp up and down to meet demand. A good time to produce hydrogen and charge cars.
@Rjdlandscapes@icanbob we still need hydrogen for industrial processes and fertilisers. Hence producing it while there is an excess of power makes sense.
@Rjdlandscapes@icanbob I thought the game was to store the hydrogen in ammonia which doesn’t need all that energy. The CSIRO in Australia even set up a demonstration of a shipping container sized unit to use in petrol stations to dispense hydrogen fuel for cars.
@Rjdlandscapes it’s nuts. If there was ever a demonstration of sunk cost fallacy, it’s this. I’ve seen comments in the trucking industry that BEV trucks aren’t suitable for refrigerated vehicles due to the energy load, and hydrogen may be the only option there, but that’s about it.
@serichards@Rjdlandscapes went and checked HowManyLeft, wow, you weren’t kidding, and there’s never been that many. Think there’s more Sinclair C5s still on the road
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