The best results (for certain degrees of “good”, see the “Fuck Cars” movement, #MoreThanJustBikes and Racist by Design for its downsides) from any socialist experiment to ever be undertaken was, of all things, the US Interstate Highway Act. Yes, the highways that serve as the beacon of Capitalist freedom are also socialist; they’re funded by taxes.
Now, Communism is another beast entirely. In a Communist society, 100% of the economy is planned and funded by taxes; this quite simply puts too much power in too few hands, much like America’s current corporate oligarchy but as a nationalized monopoly. Authoritarians adore a concentration of power and will consume and violate powerful positions if given the option.
A government railroad is not communism. A public school system is not communism.
The reason to fear communism is because it is designed by extremely authoritarian individuals, not because it runs off your tax dollars.
Socialism is an aquarium within which the communist fish (communist nations) are dead but the capitalist fish (corporations) are the tiny fish feeding of the remaining government fish (the modern globalized nations of the world, regardless of stability, technology or form of government), which vary in health and size but are generally bigger and healthier than the capitalist fish… Except day by day the government fish get thinner and weaker and certain capitalist fish get fat off the blood they leech. The blood is tax-funded resources like health care, and the capitalist fish which aren’t growing fat off the government fish are the charities, unions and the average persons who collect food for and pick parasites off the skin of the government fish.
Obviously that’s abstract, but the relationship is basically that. You are already socialist, you just don’t realise socialism can exist beyond the trap that is planned economics.
Uh, yeah? Socialism is a product or service provided by a government agency at a reduced or waived price. The products and services in question don’t just happen.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
Trying to explain the world economic state to the extremists on both sides of the political spectrum. Because they don’t seem to understand mass media lied about the definitions of various political ideologies. Sush.
Okay, then I’m willing to admit fault but… Which is it? Worker control of production, or production according to need?
Or are you honestly going to tell me you think Collectivism (worker control of government and economy) or Communism (according to need and with no profit-making allowed) are the only forms that socialism takes?
Not saying you’re wrong, only that conflicting definitions do not help your cases, Cynetri and GreenTeaRedFlag.
Okay, then I’m willing to admit fault but… Which is it? Worker control of production, or production according to need?
Or are you honestly going to tell me you think Collectivism (worker control of government and economy) or Communism (according to need and with no profit-making allowed) are the only forms that socialism takes?
Not saying you’re wrong, only that conflicting definitions do not help your cases, Cynetri and GreenTeaRedFlag.
Interstate Highways and similar systems are “successful” socialism, as far as I understand socialism, because they are a piece of tax-funded infrastructure that has outlasted and avoided issues that have proven inherent to soviet-style, communist nation-states.
Authoritarian nations I can name off the top of my head tend to be near the top of that “chart”; I certainly don’t think Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China or Trump’s America are “okay”, especially not just because of the leader’s skin color or ancestry.
That actually explains a lot, thank you. I’m just going to duck out now then since clearly I walked into a minefield of conflicting historical definitions.
As far as I’ve ever been aware, socialism is the use of tax dollars to provide goods or services beyond simply the military protection provided by feudal governments.
Honestly, why not just peg the value of 100 of a a currency to the energy used to create a loaf of bread? Then bread will always cost close to 100 and other products will be priced according to energy and not speculation. The recipe would need to be standardized and compared but not automatically equivocated to supermarket/bakery/homemade bread, and changing it once the hypothetical currency is live would not be an option, but you’re asking to replace the entire capitalist economy so I can only hope you understand a revolution doesn’t come without risk and has never truly succeeded yet for anyone ever.
Ever seen that chart of standard of living for the top 10% and bottom 40% of wealth in Russia since 1880?
I don’t remember where it was but I’ll explain.
1880 to the Soviet Union were completely unfair. 1990 to present was and is completely unfair. I am not going to argue in favor of capitalism because to capitalism I, specificly me as a person, am unprofitable. I would be killed in a cyberpunk dystopia.
During the Soviet Union, the standards of living were roughly equal, but dropped 66% below the standards of living the 10% experienced before and after.
According to a calculation, to reach a state of being secure from the climate crisis and have equal wealth, we would need to revert to the standard of living of 1960s America technologically.
I don’t like capitalism or hate socialism. I hate that the universe works in such a way that my lifestyle - no car, living with my parents, and writing on a modern computer with fiber internet access for a living, with no possessions individually worth more than $5000 and a net worth of basically zero - is not fair under capitalism AND impossible under the kind of world YOU want to live in.
You want to live in a world where my only niche in life is too luxurious for everyone else? Fuck you, I’ll just commit suicide.
That might be why everyone’s probably assuming I’m right-wing. I mentioned it (the highway system) with its criticisms because, while successful at remaining operational, the Chinese high speed rail system is, by virtue of being a rail system, much more efficient. It would be better if there were low-speed rail connections too, but as it is the Chinese high speed rail system is indeed a successful socialist(?)/socially-funded(?) intercity transit system. OIf course, the Chinese rail system has flaws like lines that lose billions of tax dollars every year (or rather the important part is that this says there aren’t enough riders on those routes), but the Interstates were often built through areas in the middle of nowhere b ecause it made construction companies a shitload of money.
In short, you’re right to mention the chinese rail, “succesful” in my eyes also meant longevity along with a national scale and the highways happen to be older.
The problem isn’t the money. Its that the money coming from fares doesn’t cover the track maintenance. Besides, my point is not the cost because you’re right on that part, but rather that…
The cost is probably due to lower ridership than needed to make the line useful rather than wasteful.
High speed rail lines are bad at low density nations/regions. So, like a fish in the air versus a panda in the air, neither rail lines nor highways actually function well in that situation, though highways are pretty crappy no matter what. The best solution is actually rural mechanization/electrification and an increase in urbanization, which - despite international impressions - has barely been done in China in favor of keeping the remaining impoverished people poor.
Believe me, I’m aware the money isn’t the point, I’m saying that if you institute a government, even a communist one, you shouldn’t completely ignore the currency someone has on hand or spends anymore than you should rely solely on the currency someone has or spends as the primary or only measure of their importance.
A penny versus a dollar should not define the people carrying them, but the person can usually influence the world using them, and whether you’re a selfish or benevolent bureaucrat, the ability to know what kind of influence a person is likely to exert is the entire reason we are having to discuss politics with a degree of edge in the first place; Our leadership has access to that information and STILL aren’t using it to fix things instead of filling their pockets, therefore each of us is unsatisfied. I think everyone who’s posed in this thread can at least agree on that, considering this is Lemmy.
My life is miserable because I have a disability that means I have to rely on others and was literally been screwed out of a happy childhood by my own government from 2001-2002. I can barely trust my government to give me enough to live on (~$20,000 CAD a year), and full-bodied lasseiz-faire capitalism would view me as human vermin, while all attempts at communism has proven to be endemically-afflicted with an authoritarian existence that would have me exterminated as “useless”.
I’m not defending capitalism. I’m calling reality hell and calling each and every one of you my jailors for not giving a fuck how MY LIFE means NOTHING to you.
I never called any of YOU worthless or lazy or genetically substandard. You all seem to have no thought towards what happens to the people who will die when you revolt because they are TERMINALLY DEPENDENT on the status quo, nor do you care that history has shown over and over and FUCKING over that regardless of what type of government or economy you choose, revolutions ALWAYS fail.
I’m trying to say, this isn’t about a fucking political compass to me, and I don’t have a position on that compass. This is about how EVERYONE has fucking rejected me except my closest family and friends, and now I hate all of you equally regardless of your position because you insist I pick a goddamn side when no matter who wins, I DIE. So why SHOULDN’T I say that capitalism is evil, and communism is evil, and socialism is evil, and anarchy and monarchy and fascism and everything else we’ve EVER used to structure a society is EVIL, because IT DOESN’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT COLLATERAL DAMAGE.
You want a fucking flame war? How about I fucking dox you all and steal a car to drive haphazardly to all of your houses and BURN THEM TO THE FUCKING GROUND?! No, I’m not serious, but THAT is what your political opinions are threatening to do to my life; take the few things that matter to me away and then leave me to die, or hunt me down and have me tortured until I break or die from the stress.
Fuck you. I own a computer, I have a bedroom, I play video games and read ebooks. That’s all that I can afford, and you think I should give up everything except the bedroom. How about all of you give up your cars, transit passes, televisions, motorhomes, ATVs, boats, private schools, swimming pools, summer camps, vacations to ANYWHERE, IoT devices, smartphones, model train sets, gym memberships, single family homes, college educations, going out to restaurants at your own expense, collections of trading cards or china plates or beanie babies, keeping pets, having children, working a job that you like, working a job you are psychologically capable of doing, AND never owning anything expensive that you just think looks neat? Because I have none of those other things, and you expect me to give up my computer for your own benefit as much as the wealthy assholes do.
I do use a monarch’s definition of democracy. Or rather, I use the worst things a type of government has done to define whether it meets its ideals. Communism disappeared people who criticized the leadership, democracy is a witch trial on a national scale, and monarchy is an asshole who has a private army running a protection racket.
I just said, for anyone. Democracies included. This isn’t about who did what, it’s about how everyone has failed to create everlasting utopia and I’m sick of people assuming a given political system will ever fix any problem on its own.
2, tell me if the USA is going to last another 20 years because I doubt it. Now tell me if your fucking revolution’s results will still be around in 248 years. ALL political systems are doomed to fail, so LEAVE MY LIFE THE FUCK ALONE.
3, trying to guilt me into giving up what little I do have through whataboutism makes you look like an asshole.
I’ve never murdered a person. If that’s what you think of me through no fault of my own, maybe - regardless of your skin color - I should make you the first?
I’m fucking done. Choke on my fucking cock, you goddamn hypocritical woke-ass bitch.
Well then why the fuck not bomb my country too? Canada has more open space and fresh water than we know what to do with and yet our immigration department over in Ottawa are a bunch of racist pricks. That doesn’t justify the inevitable deaths of millions of children, it just makes the number of kids considered “acceptable casualties” rise exponentially. Doesn’t make sense, does it?
The New York City police department plans to pilot the unmanned aircrafts in response to complaints about large gatherings, including private events, over Labor Day weekend, officials announced Thursday....
German energy giant RWE has begun dismantling a wind farm to make way for a further expansion of an open-pit lignite coal mine in the western region of North Rhine Westphalia....
The wind farm (singular) they’re tearing down have been abandoned for 4 years now because the company that owned them went bust; bad placement was apparently to blame for these specific windmills being useless, doesn’t mean they’re 100% switching back to coal.
Also, I think they’d move the windmills if it is at all possible to not scrap them.
It’s in Chernobly Energy Drink too. I had a “friend”, an old geezer… Doc something… Was it Lloyd? Or was it… No, the grandpa didn’t have… Right. Weird friend of a friend with a nerdy but awesome car. He swore by the stuff, said it kept him so awake that he built a time machine, get this, out of a hot tub.
Now, I’ve never travelled through time, but either way he was an amazing technologist because either he fueled his car with Chernobly, or someone invented a portable garbage-fueled fusion reactor before 2015 and we’re in the wrong timeline.
Republicans have waged a decades-long battle to blow up the campaign-finance laws that rein in big-money spending. Now, they are making a play that could end in their biggest victory since the Citizens United ruling in 2010....
fixed cyberghost's "meme" (thelemmy.club)
Any greenthumbs out there have a humane solution? (startrek.website)
Murder, torture, sexual violence among thousands of Russian crimes against children (www.cnn.com)
New York police will use drones to monitor backyard parties this weekend, spurring privacy concerns (apnews.com)
The New York City police department plans to pilot the unmanned aircrafts in response to complaints about large gatherings, including private events, over Labor Day weekend, officials announced Thursday....
Putin's colonel killed in drone strike while mowing lawn at his Russian residence (globalpulsenews.com)
FCC says "Get bent, Comcast." (lemmy.world)
Germany begins dismantling wind farm for coal (euobserver.com)
German energy giant RWE has begun dismantling a wind farm to make way for a further expansion of an open-pit lignite coal mine in the western region of North Rhine Westphalia....
Maybe stick to the stuff that comes out of the tap. (mander.xyz)
GOP salivates at the biggest campaign finance win since Citizens United (www.politico.com)
Republicans have waged a decades-long battle to blow up the campaign-finance laws that rein in big-money spending. Now, they are making a play that could end in their biggest victory since the Citizens United ruling in 2010....