0oWow,

“If someone recommends Brave to you, you should ignore them, because they are wrong.”


I stopped reading here. If you would like to present objective technical arguments, please try not to sound like a 5 year old “I’m right, you’re wrong, blah blah”.

Use Brave or use Firefox. They both work great for privacy, but I find Brave is easier to configure to be private.

heird,

Ah yes let’s ignore everyone that challenges our own opinions because that’s the best way to never be wrong and always feel safe.

steakmeout,

Thank you for being a great example of exactly what the author refers to.

sarsaparilyptus,

Today, a Lemming did not learn what a thesis statement is.

linearchaos,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

When is the last time you saw a thesis that began with "you should ignore them, because they are wrong.”

He had a great opportunity and lots of eyes here from people who use brave to show them how it’s problematic. He started his opinion article with nu’uhhhhhh

Compelling summary: “You’ve been hearing a lot about Brave, maybe you use it yourself, you should look into the company you’re supporting and how they’re turning their back on you before you continue”

Start with privacy issues with tor

Show a historical track record of illegal action add swapping and referrer swapping

Show their shady crypto currency issues. trading out FTX for their own stuff, the FTC/SEC looking into them selling their coin as a security.

Show the CEO is a horrible person.

Make the case that their going to sell your data more unscrupulously than Google or Microsoft.

But no, he’s a horrible journalist that can’t manage to put the critical points first.

Hadriscus,

Maybe you should keep reading then

phar, (edited )

Or if you don’t like the article, check up on it from other sources instead of burying your head in the sand?

Edit: a word

Hadriscus,

that would require some bravery

dbilitated,
@dbilitated@aussie.zone avatar

urghhhhh but firefox just doesn’t perform as well. i tried, i really did. i found a 15 year old (!!) bug affecting svg drawing performance that was fucking up a page i was working on, i’m not imagining it.

I’m not sure if it’s the same one but i just found a similar bug with a five year old comment saying i guess we’re not fixing it anytime soon… bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483868

I do have it installed and check in occasionally but it feels like a downgrade when i try to use it as a daily driver.

is there any way to get a functional de-googled chromium build with settings sync across devices?

agressivelyPassive,

That seems like an extremely niche issue.

AnonymousLlama,
AnonymousLlama avatar

The sentiment feels on point however, that this users experience with Firefox has been poor and issues flagged have not resolved in an eternity. I've definitely felt similar exhaustion with other systems.

dream_weasel,

Exactly. Present me an alternative that isn’t just better in principle, but as good or better in actual fact. I don’t like that Google is up in my asshole, but you know what? their shit works and issues get addressed.

I’m gonna go ahead and assume that every person on here talking about this problem is an arch Linux user like me (btw) because if you’re griping about chrome from a Windows OS that’s some kind of hilarious hypocrisy.

Mubelotix,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

So it’s ok to not fix it? I agee with original commenter. Firefox is full of bugs, particularly in dev tools, which renders it unusable for me

agressivelyPassive,

Every software has old bugs, that’s perfectly normal. The question is how relevant these bugs are for the average customer.

If a bug only affects 12 people among the millions of users, it’s not that relevant.

dbilitated,
@dbilitated@aussie.zone avatar

as a dev, we close bugs with a set SLA.

15 years is … well, it’s outside that.

dbilitated,
@dbilitated@aussie.zone avatar

it’s not that niche - svg is a common format and it was difficult to work around. my point was more that the issue was known and just unlikely to ever be fixed, which makes me concerned about other issues I’m not experiencing today but might tomorrow.

I honestly would prefer to be using Firefox.

dantheclamman,
@dantheclamman@lemmy.world avatar

I have used it as a daily driver on PC and phone for years. It works great for me. There are compatibility issues that force me on Edge sometimes, but I try to keep those as short as possible.

Baketime,

It works great for me. There are compatibility issues that force me on Edge sometime

Sounds like it doesn't work great

karrbs,
karrbs avatar

Sounds like the website developers fault and not the browser. So it probably still works great.

dantheclamman,
@dantheclamman@lemmy.world avatar

The main one is my timesheet software which only works via legacy IE webapp (seriously). The other is Google Meet, which doesn’t have full features in Firefox. So I’m forced to open that one in a Chrome tab

Baketime, (edited )

I use Firefox on PC and I'm happy with it there. But on my phone Firefox isn't great. Scrolling and zooming is pretty choppy, not excessively but it shouldn't be choppy at all.

Edit: after posting this I tried using Firefox again for a while. I take back the "excessively" part. It is distractingly slow, there's no reason for it to be that bad

dbilitated,
@dbilitated@aussie.zone avatar

yeah I really notice the difference. I wish I didn’t, I’d rather use Firefox, but it feels slower and I want my settings syncing between devices

QuazarOmega,

Just curious, does that only affect macOS?
I tried on Linux and saw no hanging nor any cores at 100% usage, bit slow on performance though, yes

dbilitated,
@dbilitated@aussie.zone avatar

I’m on windows but I think the Mac testing bed had the issue too

it was a couple of years ago and I’ve tried ff since and it’s good, there’s just always a reason to switch back.

QuazarOmega,

I see, could the bug report have just been forgotten by now? Long time, lol

Anyway, use what works for you honestly, Firefox is cool, but it doesn’t have to be the only one

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

Why was appointing Eich as CEO so controversial? It’s because he donated $1,000 in support of California’s Proposition 8 in 2008, which was a proposed amendment to California’s state constitution to ban same-sex marriage.

I want to try a thought experiment. Imagine that you observe this comment in reaction to the above:

I just don’t get why the author is so pissed about their political contributions. Guess what, people who are involved in big business are usually right-wing and support right-wing organizations. Shocking. Who could have known. I don’t even want to imagine how the author comes to the conclusion that this is some big conspiracy but I think we all know what political spectrum that guy belongs to.

What I just wrote is a mirror-image version of the top rated comment on that article from a few days ago about the Mozilla foundation funding left-wing organizations. Do you agree with one of those statements and not the other? If so, why?

It is one-sided to say that someone involved in Brave should only be “allowed” to do so if he doesn’t support anything conservative. Just as would be one-sided and wrong to say that Mozilla shouldn’t be “allowed” to support left-wing organizations. Flipping it around, and looking at the reaction when it’s the other way around, is an easy way to analyze your own internal reactions on it.

(Generally, I’m in agreement with the idea that you shouldn’t use Brave because of all these other shady things; just this one part jumped out at me as one thing that’s not like the others.)

ventrix,

Very good observation. The issue being, the way I see it, he supported a generally accepted hateful conservative rhetoric. Most left wing organizations do not promote hateful rhetorics.

themarty27,

Supporting politicians you like and supporting basic human rights being taken away on the basis of completely arbitrary factors outside one’s control are two very different things.

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not going to want to hear this, but this logic (i.e. “But MY side is the RIGHT one, so it’s different”) is exactly why the right wing thinks Trump shouldn’t go to prison and it’s okay when they cheat in elections.

I do agree with you that the left wing is the right side of history. That doesn’t mean someone who’s on the other side suddenly shouldn’t be an executive of anything.

phillaholic,

What does it matter? They just make up whatever they want. It doesn’t matter what anyone else says or does.

A CEO needs to use logic and reason, and being into Trump shows an utter lack of both, and id argue a similar mindset. Anyone in a position like is probably doing similar things.

themarty27, (edited )

It’s not even about sides. There is no left wing party in the USA - the Democrats are a right wing party. The problem with the GOP is not that they are right wing, it’s that they are extremists. A lot of their “policies” are not policies, they are crimes against humanity. 'People who are demographic X shouldn’t have the basic human right of Y" is not an opinion, a policy or justifiable in any way.

And boycotting people as Eich is first and foremost an act of self-preservation.

  1. Eich is, evidently, a hateful cunt who invests into destroying the human rights of random people. By exposing your e-mail, bank accounts, your communications and your identity to him (by using his browser), you are inviting him to violate your rights as well.
  2. By using Brave’s shit, you giwe Eich money. Thot same money he later uses to fund the atrocities he and his peers commit. Thus, by using Brave’s shit, you are not only complacent in these crimes, but actively participating.
  3. Less relevant, but still, by using a Chromium-based browser, you help inflate Google’s oppressive market share in the browser space, letting them push shit like Mv3 or WEI. If Brave actually cared about making a private and secure browser and fighting Google’s monopoly, they’d base off Gecko or, better yet, build their own engine.
be_excellent_to_each_other,
be_excellent_to_each_other avatar
  • Your first point is predicated on a false equivalence. The very real problems Democrats have are not in the same league as the very real problems Republicans have. That Republicans and their supporters have chosen to manufacture outrage based on lies and hysteria does not put them on the same plane as being outraged at the loss of reproductive rights for women and the deaths already caused from that, the attacks on voting rights, the trans and drag show boogeyman that is going to lead to deaths if it hasn't already, and etc and etc and etc.

  • Your second point is arguing against what exactly? People are talking about things they don't like about the CEO of a company. Some of those people are going to choose not to support that company as is their right. WTF business is it of yours aside from your freedom to make a different decision? That CEO doesn't need your help, and doesn't give a shit about you. Why would you be here finger wagging at people about it? If the claims were false that would be one thing, but even you don't seem to be claiming they are.

Let the truth out and let people make up their own minds. If centrism is your thing (and it seems it is) I can't imagine a more neutral position than that.

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

When did I say anything about the Democrats? I agree with you that the Democrats are a conservative party, and the Republicans are a fascist party. I don’t think we were saying anything at all about the Democrats or the Republicans, and I don’t think it’s controversial that favoring gay marriage is a left-wing position and opposing it is a right-wing position.

Your second point is arguing against what exactly? People are talking about things they don’t like about the CEO of a company. Some of those people are going to choose not to support that company as is their right. WTF business is it of yours aside from your freedom to make a different decision?

Let the truth out and let people make up their own minds.

100% agreed. Do you feel the same way about “Firefox Money: Investigating the bizarre finances of Mozilla”?

If centrism is your thing (and it seems it is)

Incorrect. I used to be registered with the US Green Party before they shit the bed, if that gives you any idea.

be_excellent_to_each_other,
be_excellent_to_each_other avatar

Do you feel the same way about “Firefox Money: Investigating the bizarre finances of Mozilla”?

Absolutely. It's why I'm not in related threads telling people who are bothered by it that they shouldn't be.

I don’t think we were saying anything at all about the Democrats or the Republicans, and I don’t think it’s controversial that favoring gay marriage is a left-wing position and opposing it is a right-wing position.

My issue is here:

(i.e. “But MY side is the RIGHT one, so it’s different”) is exactly why the right wing thinks Trump shouldn’t go to prison and it’s okay when they cheat in elections.

Even if for some reason you want to limit the scope to a generic "Left" and "Right" even after invoking Trump, you're still creating a false equivalence.

As you acknowledge, we can point to the factual basis for the concerns the Left has about the actions of the Right. The right has misinformation, disinformation, and willful ignorance as the basis for their outrage. "Both sides" thinking they are right doesn't boil down to the same thing when one side actually is demonstrably wrong.

Shikadi,

Right wing is the one that actively and openly hurts people, so yeah I do see a difference tbh

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not going to want to hear this, but this logic (i.e. “But MY side is the RIGHT one, so it’s different”) is exactly why the right wing thinks Trump shouldn’t go to prison and it’s okay when they cheat in elections.

I do agree with you that the left wing is the right side of history. That doesn’t mean someone who’s on the other side suddenly shouldn’t be an executive of anything.

gabe,

Just because you reply so twice doesn’t make you correct.

KevonLooney,

Yeah, it’s one-sided. Prop 8 was stupid and CA rightfully rejected that shit later.

It’s good to be one-sided against stupid shit that is a crime against humanity. Gay marriage is now legal federally. Same as interracial marriage. Nazis got beat the fuck up in WW2. Slavery is over. Deal with it.

phillaholic,

To your last point, Slavery isn’t really over. I recommend watching the documentary the 13th on Netflix en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)

hypelightfly,

California actually never has rejected it and it's still in our constitution. We may get the chance to do so in 2024. The only reason it's not law right now is federal courts ruling it unconstitutional and the supreme court finding the challengers didn't have standing. A new Supreme Court decision that reverses that ruling would make it law again.

money_loo,

Bro, if you can't tell why people are happy about progressive policies that support the right to love each other, and upset about regressive conservative antics that attempt to shame them and wrong them just for being themselves by telling them that they are "other" and not allowed to participate in society by getting married just because you personally think it's "icky" or against YOUR religion, then I honestly don't know what to tell ya. And I blame you for that run-on sentence mess, thanks a lot.

phillaholic,

Thank you. I’m tired of these people who think there are sides of equal good or equal bad. There a group of religious fascists that want to control all our lives and then there are the rest of us that sometimes begrudgingly are lumped together because we aren’t wacko nut jobs. Fact is there are very few liberal leaning organizations that I would care if a developer or ceo was apart of because they don’t threaten me for disagreeing.

blazera,
blazera avatar

Its one sided to call fire hot

BaroqueInMind,
BaroqueInMind avatar

Your argument has no merit because one side of the political aisle is actively endorsing a piece of shit draft-dodging criminal and encouraging states to strip the rights of a minority population as well as the bodily autonomy of women, and the other side wants to charge you more money on taxes to support social programs and help people. (I own many guns and live in a red state btw, I have a bias.)

Why don't you take a guess on which side is being disingenuous?

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not going to want to hear this, but this logic (i.e. “But MY side is the RIGHT one, so it’s different”) is exactly why the right wing thinks Trump shouldn’t go to prison and it’s okay when they cheat in elections.

I do agree with you that the left wing is the right side of history. That doesn’t mean someone who’s on the other side suddenly shouldn’t be an executive of anything.

Heresy_generator,
Heresy_generator avatar

Gay rights are human rights and no one who works against human rights should ever be put in charge of an organization full of humans.

Human rights are not a political issue, they're a moral and ethical issue.

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

Gay rights are human rights

Yes, I agree with you 100%. That’s a moral and ethical judgement though. It’s a moral and ethical judgement I agree with, but it’s still a statement of someone’s individual morals.

Put it another way – how about if I rephrased it to:

Christian values are human values and no one who can’t respect Christian values should ever be put in charge of an organization full of humans.

Or:

Islamic values are human values and no one who can’t respect Muslim values should ever be put in charger of an organization full of humans.

Would you still agree with that? There are millions and millions of Muslims who believe every bit as deeply in their way of looking at the world as you believe deeply that gay marriage needs to be enshrined in law. Should they be writing articles about how the CEO of some organization gave $1,000 to an organization with anti-Islamic values and so you shouldn’t use that organization’s web browser?

ponfriend,

There were slave owners who believed they were morally right too, and your argument says they should have been left alone. We’re smart enough to know they were wrong and that your Christians and Muslims are wrong. We should be writing articles and making choices accordingly.

mo_ztt,
@mo_ztt@lemmy.world avatar

My argument doesn’t say they should have been “left alone” though. I’m just saying everyone should have a voice and a right to believe what they believe.

Basically, I believe in the old-school left: The ACLU defending the KKK’s right to have rallies, “I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death” etc. As far as I can see, having the election and the debate in the public sphere about whether gay marriage should be allowed is a good thing. I just don’t think it’s a good thing once it goes into the territory of saying, you’re not allowed to say that, because we’re smart enough to know that you’re wrong. If you say the wrong thing, I’ll try to take your job. If you contribute to the wrong side of the issue, I’ll try to take your job.

I mean, I do get what you’re saying – if someone used to support slavery, and we’re using that as an argument for why now after the war they shouldn’t run a newspaper (or why I shouldn’t buy that newspaper), is that okay? If you put it that way to me, it sounds fine, so on that count maybe I agree with you. How about this, do you think the KKK should be allowed to hold rallies, if racism is what they believe?

ponfriend,

This isn’t about what Eich used to believe. This is about a law that he helped pass and still supports. I wouldn’t give my money to somebody who helped pass a law to bring back slavery and still supports it. We know that this is wrong.

Eich and the KKK can continue to advocate for the wrong side. We should continue to argue against them and not give them our support.

gullible,

“While evil triumphs and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.” At some point, action has to be taken. Nixon set the stage nearly an average lifetime ago and they’re still introducing new props and lighting adjustments. No, the folks preaching irredeemable crimes shouldn’t be executives of anything.

dantheclamman,
@dantheclamman@lemmy.world avatar

The two sides are not morally equal. Prop 8 was an awful, bigoted stain on California’s history and he was unrepentant. I am glad he no longer is at Firefox. And Brave is a sketchy company that makes clear it was a good decision to give him the boot. I can support companies with moral stances I agree with and not support companies that do bad things.

SatanicNotMessianic,

The fact that you would consider your counterfactual a mirror image is itself problematic.

In the case of the Foundation, it supports exactly what it purports to support. They’re like the EFF and other civil rights organizations. If you consider the EFF left wing, I think that says a bit more about where you stand.

The original article was outrage-bate blog spam, with random Capitalized Words and the prolific use of “scare quotes.” It doesn’t even say anything. No charges of misinformation. No citation of law. Just “They have a Billion Dollars!!” kinds of sentences.

On the other hand, the CEO of a company - particularly a small company - lends his personality to the company. It often makes sense to co-identify them, given that the CEO has an incredible amount of influence.

So if you are saying that libertarian software project : libertarian institutions :: conservative ideas : homophobic legislation, I guess you’re just really endorsing the position of judging the company by the politicians and politics it supports. If you see prop 8 as being as fundamental to the conservative position as internet freedom is to an organization specifically dedicated to preserving internet freedom, all I can say is that I hope more people start to see it that way.

NorthCountryHermit,

These browser wars are funny. It’s not like you have a real choice anyways. You get either some sort of Chrome, with it’s various problems. Or you get some sort of Firefox… which has it’s own host of issues. The rest of the competition is so far behind that it’d take a miracle for them to enter the mainstream.

Shilling for any particular browser is pathetic.

batman654987,

This is bulshit, didnt have to say aything in tehnical aspect of the browser so he continyed to tras some people that work on that project, probably false…

trackcharlie,

If software works I’ll use it.

I prefer firefox but I’m not going to tell someone not to use a piece of software because the creator is a retard.

Learn to be angry at the right things and grow up. Jesus fucking christ people are so god damn stupid now days.

“Waahh I don’t like this guys political position so I’m going to try to defame all his work and the work of hundreds of others because of one guys personal opinion”

If this had said something like ‘v3 manifest will be rolled out and they’re going to be anti-anonymity’ then I’d be salty because that would mean the software is becoming less useful.

Anyone who thinks like this should stop using the internet because, spoiler, the entire backbone of the internet has been contributed to by everyone of every faith, creed and philosophy which means thousands of people you ‘hate’ have contributed to your literal bitching about those very people online.

Get over yourselves. Actual fucking children.

This author is a moron.

Use firefox (or librefox).

Dystopia,

What’s the deal with the founder ? If my browser is good I couldn’t care less if it’s made by Hitler himself.

Mesaji,

duckduckgo

LittleLordLimerick,
68silver,

Brave is great and i will continue to use it.

mandolrain,
@mandolrain@lemmy.world avatar

I really enjoy brave on desktop and mobile. Other mobile browsers turn every internet interaction into chaos with all the popups and ads (even let’s you use YouTube in the background with its playlist feature on mobile). I read the article and I didn’t understand why the product itself was bad? CEO did some stuff that the writer (and me) doesn’t agree with, doesn’t make it a crappy product though?

int,

Firefox Mobile with the add-ons “Video Background Play Fix” and “uBlock Origin” will play YouTube in the background with no ads or popups.

GuyDudeman,
@GuyDudeman@lemmy.world avatar

On iOS?

int,

I don’t know about iOS. I’m interested to hear from someone about this.

KrisND,

Honestly, I’m with Brave just for easy of use and out-of-box usability. I did modify built-in settings though.

  • No account, I can sync my bookmarks even between mobile and desktop.
  • Built-in security/ad blocking, no extra plugins and permissions.

I will probably give Firefox a try in the future but a few years back it was so bloated and I hate having to install things from 3rd parties I feel should be included.

pmjv,
@pmjv@lemmy.sdf.org avatar
dantheclamman,
@dantheclamman@lemmy.world avatar

Today I learned that people take it VERY PERSONALLY when you criticize their chosen browser. 😂

Sweatyfartz,

Except for Internet Explorer. Because everyone can agree on: “What a piece of shit that was”…

sagan,

We already had 2 browser wars.

victron,

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • borkdd,

    Is your comment for or against the browser, or is it actually just about FOSS in general?

    WereCat,

    What’s up with all these Firefox elitists in the comment section?

    Aesthesiaphilia,

    It's the whole fediverse

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