hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

I know I’ve said this before, but as someone who goes into industrial process environments a lot, the lack in of decent ppe, especially FR gear, that properly and safely fits feminine bodies is a frigging travesty. It’s one of those things that actually leads to a culture of poor safety, because nobody really talks about it - guys typically don’t think about people wearing a bra or hairpins and how they could melt to a person in an industrial accident, and women feel like they have to shut up and be one of the guys. And almost everything that fits better requires a lengthy online order from backstock.

Anyway if you are planning on working in that space and aren’t a men’s size M-XXL like nearly all the gear, I’m always available to talk.

gsuberland,
@gsuberland@chaos.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes heck, it's bad enough being a tall dude when I travel anywhere east. I was in Singapore a while back and had to get them to find me a frickin' 5XL boiler suit. it was about double my waist size but all the smaller ones were like being kicked in the crotch due to the height proportions being so short.

I can't imagine how femme folks deal with it on a regular basis.

annehargreaves,

@hacks4pancakes So true. All the work gear. GLOVES BOOTS SPECS MASKS. Female ranges hardly any choice & on special order.

rmd1023,
@rmd1023@infosec.exchange avatar

@annehargreaves @hacks4pancakes vendor: “But here we have lighter weight, less standards-compliant stuff that’s PINK for you little ladies”

alex_02,
@alex_02@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes my fr cargo pants cost $60 a pair and I had to order in men's. I'm also pretty small so it is a pain especially with my issues with fabric sensitivity. ;-;

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@alex_02 and they’re charging 125 for a pair of women’s fit jeans, it’s crazy

alex_02,
@alex_02@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes good thing though is the brand in particular ive been buying has been having decent sales and theyre very well made so they should last a while, but it just gets ridiculous sometimes.

blogdiva,
@blogdiva@mastodon.social avatar

@alex_02 @hacks4pancakes the bras they gave me after surgery at first are somewhat soft but because they use velcro (to avoid metal & loops) the straps are harsh on my skin, so i put on a tight first on BEFORE i put on my compression bra. now am wondering if its FR. maybe oncology bras are FR?

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@blogdiva @alex_02 they would have to be 100% natural fiber too

blogdiva,
@blogdiva@mastodon.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes @alex_02 oh, then this isn't. it's definitely a spandex mix (maybe with rayon).

alex_02,
@alex_02@infosec.exchange avatar

@blogdiva @hacks4pancakes a good pair of cotton bras that are comfortable and durable is a pain to find without spending a ridiculous amount of money.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@alex_02 @blogdiva spandex will melt to you like glue is why…

kcarruthers,
@kcarruthers@mastodon.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes it’s always annoyed me. Even though men’s clothes fit me there’s other dangerous stuff like we often wear bras with metal. And my head is so tiny their hats don’t fit. And it’s taken ages to find a KN95 that fits my face. One of my friends has just given up as she’s so tiny.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@kcarruthers everyone is wearing underwires or spandex bras in places where there is high voltage electricity and burn hazards and nobody is talking about it.

kcarruthers,
@kcarruthers@mastodon.social avatar
rmd1023,
@rmd1023@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes @kcarruthers Oh wow. Yeah that makes me twitchy just to think about. (I honestly forget if I wore underwire bras when I work in a high voltage test lab.)

dymaxion,
@dymaxion@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes
Thanks, this wasn't on my radar as something to be aware of.
@kcarruthers

whereisthespai,

@hacks4pancakes @kcarruthers at a former workplace, I got threatened with a report to HR for mentioning bras as a burn hazard in a facility. Like, wtaf do people think will happen when clothing made from petrochemicals is worn against skin in the event of a fire?

robinfarrell,

@kcarruthers @hacks4pancakes grow a bigger face obviously.

ohmu,
@ohmu@social.seattle.wa.us avatar

@robinfarrell @kcarruthers @hacks4pancakes
So let's say one is on a #union bargaining team and the issues include #safety equipment such arc flash gear...
In your opinion, would adding language about pro-actively making sure the clothing fits regardless of gender norms or ... something ... be a good idea or nah? I can imagine ways it might backfire since the current root problem seems to be a lack of the right stuff to purchase.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@ohmu @robinfarrell @kcarruthers I think awareness is part of it …. the market adapts to demand

robinfarrell,

@hacks4pancakes @ohmu @kcarruthers yeah basically buy face growing meds on TOR, they probably exist or I'm just being a dick because I don't like Sundays. #steroids

skry,
@skry@mastodon.social avatar

@kcarruthers @hacks4pancakes These are good masks, they are on sale, and they have kids’ sizes: https://www.projectn95.org/collections/masks/

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

Before even one man links the two FR bras in existence, let me just say they are the one uniform thing the US military has never figured out how to issue, for a reason.

anilmc,
@anilmc@hachyderm.io avatar

@hacks4pancakes sorry what's fr gear?

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@anilmc fire resistant.

Laird_Dave,
@Laird_Dave@chaos.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes @anilmc resistant or retardant? I might need a link or two to give to my female crew members because I'm 100% positive that this is not something my agency has on their radar.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@Laird_Dave @anilmc honestly both in different industrial contexts. For both the problem exists but flame retardant tends to be over garments not undergarments so more size forgiving. Your underwear melting to you is a very scary industrial accident.

alex_02,
@alex_02@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes what is the reason?

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@alex_02 hard to universally size and people have very real needs for different shapes and levels of support

TindrasGrove,
@TindrasGrove@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes @alex_02 yupppp. Boobs are annoyingly resistant to normal rules of clothing sizing (and those are bad enough).

I sometimes think a structured bodice with laces (not full corset structure, but think along those lines) would be as close as you can get to “one style fits most” that doesn’t require breakthroughs in materials science to make work.

blogdiva,
@blogdiva@mastodon.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes i want to say that's bizarre but given what i have learned from the good people of a /r/ABraTheFits, am not shocked. as a culture, USA doesn't understand breasts. like, at all. and everybody blames Victoria's Secret, LMAO

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@blogdiva she’s an old man who lives in Ohio, etc etc

adb,
@adb@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes FR, Frame Relay?? Sorry, in a geek context that sounds too much like something someone would have turned into a wearable technology. Further consideration suggests Flame Retardant might be the relevant expansion in current context.

mos_8502,

@hacks4pancakes Having been married 20 years to a cis woman with very large breasts, and despite years of sewing experience, I cannot imagine trying to design a general-issue bra that could be issued to soldiers without fitting. I've had to learn how to properly measure and fit someone for a bra, and it ain't trivial.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@mos_8502 absolutely the problem!

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

This blew up. Great ideas and comments in thread.

To clarify some points - a lot of traditionally “women’s” clothes and accessories pose an industrial safety hazard that isn’t discussed much. Spandex can melt to your skin in a fire or electrical accident. Metal hairpins and ties can conduct electricity and heat up. Even hair spray can be flammable. So having the conversations is really important, as well as alternatives for stuff, including underwear, pants, and shoes that fit a wide range of shapes and sizes properly (fit without loose or dangling clothes can be important for safety too).

The worst industrial injury I ever got was due to a lack of discussion or communication of hazards. I worked on aircraft components doing constant soldering back in the day of much more toxic stuff. I wore gas permeable contacts at the time and even though I wore eye protection, I ended up with severe burns to my eyes. I would hate to see someone require skin grafts or worse because suppliers don’t stock clothes that fit safely or discussions are not had about the risks of typical undergarments, etc.

(And the pink tax on safety gear is obscene.)

0xdaeda1a,
@0xdaeda1a@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes I just completely stopped wearing contacts during my chemistry major in undergrad, and never went back. I’m glad I was warned!!!

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@0xdaeda1a I think modern soft contacts are a lot safer but fumes would get trapped under hard ones…

0xdaeda1a,
@0xdaeda1a@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes shudder yeah

rcriii,
@rcriii@hostux.social avatar

@0xdaeda1a @hacks4pancakes I am giving a talk on safety in January and will definitely discuss this. In our case, we had a mandatory glove policy for several years before one of our employees pointed out that one (or two) sizes don't fit all. Thank you!

sidereal,
@sidereal@kolektiva.social avatar

@rcriii @0xdaeda1a @hacks4pancakes I used to have to bring in my own XL gloves because my boss refused to believe anyone’s hands were actually that big. He thought it was like a vanity sizing thing.

AG100pct,

@hacks4pancakes
Only a few years ago reasonable requests for PPE or more appropriate tools to prevent stress injuries were not addressed.
Today I find glove sizes frustrating even as a male.
Hard to convince people, but it doesn't cost...it pays !

chemoelectric,
@chemoelectric@masto.ai avatar

@hacks4pancakes It’s a more general problem with some of the thermoplastic fibers.

I mean, burn wards must have been wild in the 1970s.

mikaylamic,
@mikaylamic@wandering.shop avatar

@hacks4pancakes Before top surgery I mentioned the hazard of bras to my (all cis male) coworkers when we were talking about arc flash safety, and everyone just kind of uncomfortably shrugged because nobody has answers.

Right now I’m trying to get arc flash gear at work that isn’t massively too big or have sleeves that are an entanglement hazard, and it’s really challenging.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@mikaylamic someday I’ll make that spare 50k 🥲😢 alas binders are spandex too

mikaylamic,
@mikaylamic@wandering.shop avatar

@hacks4pancakes Yeah, a binder would be very bad news during an industrial accident.

I am fortunate that top surgery is covered by public health care (I’m in Canada).

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@mikaylamic waiting for my ship to come in.

violetmadder,
@violetmadder@kolektiva.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes

I have the advantage of being very tall, but my fingers are maybe 1/2 the thickness of any motorcycle gloves I can actually put on. Next to no "women's" clothing fits me, and the "men's" don't either, and I can't physically enby my way past to the point that my friggin ARMOR has to stay in the right place if I crash.

sidereal,
@sidereal@kolektiva.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes Same thing is also true for bulletproof vests/hard armor. There’s like one company that makes those things for people with boobs.

your_huckleberry,

@hacks4pancakes do you recommend any good sources for better fitting gear? I work in heavy industry and have many female co-workers. I'm sure our safety people would be interested.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@your_huckleberry it’s slim, slim pickings. I feel like Artiat stuff fits me personally a little better but their sizing is wonky.

your_huckleberry,

@hacks4pancakes I'll ask some of the ladies here if they have any good info and get back to you. What items are the biggest issue? PPE we use are things like hard-hats, boots, gloves, high-vis, eye and ear protection.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@your_huckleberry clothing. Pants. Shirts.undergarments.

your_huckleberry,

@hacks4pancakes I have say, the irony of your name, in relation to your specific issue made me chuckle. When I first glanced at your toot, I thought it was some kind of marketing gimmick from Carhartt.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@your_huckleberry if I had another t id be rich.

ChickenPwny,
@ChickenPwny@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes XD it's one size fits all typically to reduce cost. If you big they too small if you too small they big.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@ChickenPwny no, I’m talking about stuff like bras and women’s underwear.

ChickenPwny,
@ChickenPwny@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes I thought it was safety vest lol. Personal protective equipment PPE?

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@ChickenPwny yes, absolutely personal protective equipment. Stuff that can keep us having skin grafts if exposed to fire or electricity

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@ChickenPwny this is totally the misunderstanding I’m talking about. Nobody thinks about what people wear under their clothes, especially- and almost all gear is made for men.

TrillionB,
@TrillionB@mstdn.social avatar

@hacks4pancakes Visiting different customers as a consultant was eye-opening about different safety cultures.

The few really good companies, during site check-in, would walk me to a "safety room". It was like walking into a clothing store. Racks and racks of all sizes of PPE. Over-shoes and boots from teeny-tiny thru NBA player sizes, different sizes and types of safety glasses and visors, gloves that didn't cut off the circulation in my hands, etc.

And women still got shortchanged.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@TrillionB it’s easier when there are over garments for sure, too.

junio,

@hacks4pancakes
Don't know if this will help, Wrangler FR isn't cheap, but the Women's fit isn't more expensive then Men’s fit. Selection is a little less though.

Bras are a real tough situation. I’m going to give it some thought now.

https://www.wrangler.com/shop/women-workwear-flame-resistant-fr

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@junio I like wrangler. Ariat snd Carhartt clothes fit me better but they cost 1/3 more for women clothes and limited stock

johntimaeus,
@johntimaeus@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes

Just getting chainsaw chaps & steel toe boots for my wife was a hella challenge. Had to go to a navy supplier for the boots.

aethervision,

@hacks4pancakes My wife and I blacksmith and tend to goats and chickens. I’m 5’10” and she’s 5’. Her gear typically costs three times what mine does, when an equivalent is available at all.

Edited to show that my wife is 5 feet, not 5 inches, tall.

dxzdb,
@dxzdb@mastodon.social avatar

@aethervision @hacks4pancakes
That pricing is robbery. 😡

Did she see the 5 inch first? 🤣

maswan,
@maswan@mastodon.acc.sunet.se avatar

@hacks4pancakes
Hmm. I'm not seeing it in the english language version, but Blåkläder is now looking for the next generation test pilots for their feminine gear (gets you a network to talk about this and possibly selected for new gear testing).

Apparently they discovered this in 2016 by the innovative method of recruiting some women working in ppe needing fields and listening to their feedback on fits etc. As far as I can tell this is a unique approach in the ppe/work wear industry.

hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@maswan great idea!

mikaeleiman,
@mikaeleiman@mastodon.sdf.org avatar
hacks4pancakes,
@hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange avatar

@mikaeleiman @maswan unfortunately very few of these are FR.

JenWojcik,

@hacks4pancakes Honestly, the worst part for me are work boots. I only know of one company that makes actual work boots for women. Most of mine are simply smaller men's sizes that fit so poorly they cut off circulation to my toes.

AND WORK SOCKS. My god the amount of time I spend searching for appropriately sized proper work socks for work boots is obscene. Forget if you actually want wool...

dxzdb,
@dxzdb@mastodon.social avatar

@JenWojcik @hacks4pancakes

I really like merino wool socks from https://shop.bombas.com/

Backpackers rave about darntough.com I’m looking forward to trying these.

scottwilson,
@scottwilson@infosec.exchange avatar

@hacks4pancakes Thanks for continuing to raise this issue!

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • random
  • rhentai
  • DreamBathrooms
  • thenastyranch
  • mdbf
  • Youngstown
  • magazineikmin
  • khanakhh
  • slotface
  • tacticalgear
  • rosin
  • kavyap
  • Durango
  • osvaldo12
  • GTA5RPClips
  • bokunoheroacademia
  • everett
  • Leos
  • InstantRegret
  • ethstaker
  • cubers
  • cisconetworking
  • modclub
  • tester
  • lostlight
  • normalnudes
  • relationshipadvice
  • HellsKitchen
  • sketchdaily
  • All magazines