utubas,

Ah, the weekly “far left is the best and everyone else is wrong” post.

guyrocket,
guyrocket avatar

Lol

Veraxus,
Veraxus avatar

Ah the weekly "I don't actually know what 'left' means" comment.

utubas,

It is the opposite of right, which in itself is ironic…

BolexForSoup,
BolexForSoup avatar

OH MY GOD NO ONE HAS EVER THOUGHT OF THAT WORDPLAY BEFORE HOLY SHIT YOU’RE SO CLEVER

utubas,

Don’t get upset, commie

BolexForSoup, (edited )
BolexForSoup avatar

Y'all destroyed any meaning or teeth that word had in the 2010’s.

Don’t bother responding I won’t be reading it. But if you must have the last word, it’s all yours. I’m sure it’s very important to you.

Tremble,

Heck I would be happy with even so much as “left of center” which we don’t really have in the United States. Biden is right of center. Bernie sanders for example is only slightly left of center.

Cowbee,

I’d argue Bernie is slightly right of center, even. He isn’t advocating for Socialization of the economy, just an expansion of the safety nets.

BolexForSoup,
BolexForSoup avatar

I’m sorry but saying Bernie is “right of center” is absurd. Even in most Western European nation that have a “further left center” he’d fit right in at the very least as left/center left.

Tremble,

This is what I have seen when I look up where different politicians are on the four way political chart… Bernie is left of center, and he has some basic ideas that would benefit everyone at the same time…. Alas

Tremble, (edited )

Nah man. Left of center is not that at all. United States citizens are pretty left wing when it comes to policy when you take away language of dems and cons.

Left of center basically means any candidate where the democrats are saying, yea but if you vote for the other guy it will be ten times worse. So, Biden and every democrat candidate for 40 years

I edited to say left not right lol

Cowbee,

What policy is left wing? Left of center is Socialism.

Tremble,

You believe slightly left of center is socialism? How does it feel to be so damn clueless?

Cowbee,

The center would be a 50/50 mix of Worker owned industry and Capitalist owned industry, like a form of extremely socialized Social Democracy. To the left of that, you have a majority Socialist economy, to the right of that you have a majority Capitalist economy.

Simple as.

Tremble,

Oversimplifying a bit

Cowbee,

How so?

dream_weasel,

What is it like having a disability? Do you wish we made more efforts to accept you on social media? You may be closer to a lefty opinion than you think.

utubas,

Good one, mate

dream_weasel,

Man I do what I can. Patrolling Lemmy is a thankless job. Even more thankless than reddit. But, hey, it’s gotta be done.

AWistfulNihilist,

Are you saying disabled people are naturally anti leftist, are you making fun of this person by accusing them of having a disability.

This is a legit disgusting comment and you should delete it.

unreasonabro,

You have understood literally nothing, both about what he has said and about what you have said, and you really ought to be ashamed of yourself, and no doubt already are. Figure out how to grow up and you will feel better. Your comment is the disgusting one, not his, flying in here with your pet agenda and trying to insert it into a different conversation… cheap internet bully shit from a trauma victim. Get your act together man, you don’t need to be this guy.

AWistfulNihilist, (edited )

Did chat gpt write this?

Omfg I love when people harping about bullying also hella bully! Hella bully, fucking hypocrite.

dream_weasel,

No.

I’m not deleting something I post unless it breaks the rules. I’ll take the downvotes and if you think it’s disgusting there’s your method.

BolexForSoup,
BolexForSoup avatar

so brave

AWistfulNihilist,

Being gross for the sake of being gross huh! I’m telling you to delete it cause it’s a super shitty thing to imply about disabled people either way. Empathy not your strong suite tho, understood!

dream_weasel,

No I’m not being a wuss for the sake of pleasing an internet commentator. Sorry about your delicate sensibilities. If you delete your posts that’s your business, I don’t.

If you can’t deal with the fallout for commenting, don’t comment. I can handle one blowhard and a handful of downvotes.

AWistfulNihilist,

Wow, you take this Internet stuff super seriously! Keep going you soldier, gotta stay hard!

AnarchistArtificer,

I can answer your question. Having a disability is frustrating because meaningful discussion of disability issues is, in part, hampered by people who use disability as a joke. Often these jokes come from people who are ostensibly progressive (or at the very least, attacking those who aren’t progressive).

So yeah, I rather would like you to make more efforts to accept disabled people like me on social media, starting with not making jokes like these.

dream_weasel,

Sorry about ya mate. Can’t win them all.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You know… I didn’t particularly like what the person above said to me… but I also live with a disability and what you said is far more insulting even though it wasn’t directed at me personally.

I would also suggest that mocking disability is a right-wing position. Accepting people for who they can’t help but be is what is ethical.

You can change your political beliefs. That’s on you. You can’t regrow a leg or make seizures that medication won’t help with magically disappear.

dream_weasel,

Sorry you feel that way. I live with chronic pain myself and it’s not a lot of fun. That being said…

I don’t know why insinuating that a person might be disabled and wanting of more consideration is offensive. I didn’t suggest he’s missing an arm or a leg or give some ableist writeoff, I said instead that maybe acceptance is what he is looking for and that would not come from the far right.

Sure, it’s mincing words and it’s a hedge, but I don’t think I’m going to apologize for pushing people’s buttons: they go low we go high is BS because the only people who benefit from that arrangement are the bystanders. They go low, I’m gonna be waiting to kick in the teeth. Everyone playing the disgust and downvote is on the team watching out for people already. Thank you. I am going to walk in shit to piss people off: you’re not going to change someones mind by giving downvotes and “being best” (lol yeah right).

I said a dick thing, I accept it, and I hope it pissed that dude off. Then when he goes to try to refute me, he has to read, learn, and consider the situation. One of three things comes of that. He ignores me, and who cares. He thinks and gets mad and doubles down, also who cares, being nice wasnt helping anyway. Or maybe it causes a moment of thinking and clarity that starts discussion.

I’m not going to be nice so the anonymous internet left gives me a cookie, it’s not their minds that need changed or nuts that need kicked. You be the good guy who posts and is fediverse famous and I’ll be the unknown guy who goes wrestle pigs in the shit and thumps the pigeon playing chess (to borrow some expressions).

AWistfulNihilist,

Naw, you just look like an asshole and it damages your overall argument to other people who aren’t assholes.

You can be a gadfly without being a piece of shit or a pedant, or a triple downing douchebag. Again this is all a reflection on you, not on the people your bad insults aren’t landing on.

dream_weasel,

Well seeing as how it seems like you’re an asshole too, I could kinda give a shit about what you think. Apparently you have to be heard in every thread on this post though and I wouldn’t deny you replies. Go outside lol.

AWistfulNihilist,

No, I won’t be a wuss an go outside. You see how silly that sounds?

dream_weasel,

Can’t take silly seriously obviously. Can you at least entertain me and any brave readers if we are gonna keep going? I’m not going anywhere.

AWistfulNihilist,

Oh sorry, I missed the team America video. The one where you think you’re Gary Johnston but you’re actually Matt Damon.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e2ab3cd9-7a7a-4205-b73b-8c7e30505ae0.webm

dream_weasel,

I can’t see your image can you try again? I’m pretty invested now.

AWistfulNihilist,

Naw, they already removed your shitty and stupid ableist comment and the world is better for it, no one can see any of this and good!

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I apologize for not being right wing enough for you.

momo420,

You should apologize for not being able to take criticism(wether good or bad faith), as someone is criticizing your message for a left wing cost, and your super mature response is “Hurr, durr no you’re right wing”. You’re on Lemmy where most of the users are leaning left and the commentar might be as well, but that’s not good enough for you.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You’re right. What is most needed in a memes community is sober, serious, mature discussion.

utubas,

Oh, not at all. I am not right wing neither, I just don’t have a superiority complex

MetaCubed,

Ah yes, a centrist

utubas,

Maybe, definitely not a leftist though!

breadsmasher,
@breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

“waa the party of hate is being picked in for being hateful! waaaaa”

ftfy

Cowbee,

It’s correct, so it makes sense.

utubas,

Well I don’t think so…

Cowbee,

Then you’d be incorrect.

leftzero,

How in fuck’s name is wanting to get everyone’s basic needs met supposed to be far left…!?

Are basic human decency and common sense far left now too…?

utubas,

I agree with you. The post itself implies that the far left is the only one that cares about that.

The problem is that commies think immediately I am a right wing supporter from the US, and won’t consider anything else.

leftzero,

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck…

uis,

Have you ever seen far left in your life? What you call far left barely gets center-right in sane countries, usually it’s called just right there.

redfox,

OMG, with this being the millionth your version of left/right isn’t mine, can we pick a new scale?

There has got to be a better way to frame ideology that’s more consistent or universal.

uis,

There has got to be a better way to frame ideology that’s more consistent or universal.

Agreed. When it was monarchism/anti-monarchism it made sense. Now not so much.

utubas,

Well but why the holier than thou attitude in this thread against everything non far left? I live in moderately right wing country in EU, and every basic need is met. Not everybody lives in the US

uis,

Ah. Ok. What is moderately right wing in Europe in USA is called far left.

utubas,

I can agree to that. The USA is in shambles right now and I agree that pure capitalism greed is ruining it. Nontheless, like in Reddit, everything in here seems to be about the US, even when this is supposed to be an international community. Not my fault that I live in a civilized country

guyrocket,
guyrocket avatar

Centrists get it from both ends.

uis,

Double penetration

PhlubbaDubba,

People who already have their needs accounted for always seem so convinced that things will turn out hunky dory if things escalate to violence, and yet so rarely pass thought on the folks who are already struggling enough without The Troubles Part II Red Cap Boogaloo coming to a car bombing near them.

ImplyingImplications,

The centrists has their basic needs met and isn’t part of a social group that is threatened so they see both as a waste of tax spending.

geoff,

Implied by this: centrists see all this mainly as a financial matter.

hglman,

Centrists are unwilling to accept change or inconvenience. This differs from conservatives who think things should go back to some sort of old way.

uis, (edited )

That would be reactioners, not conservatives. You guys also have problem of reactioners taking name of conservatives.

hglman,

American Centrist are reactionaries, American conservatives are not reactionaries. That is my point.

JayDee, (edited )

We gotta stop callin them conservatives. These shits are trying to roll things back, not keep it as-is. They’re the opposite of progressive: they’re regressive.

Flumpkin,

It’s really impossible to know what you mean here, because conservative should mean to keep doing what works: They should be social democrats (what worked to build the US e.g. Nixon lol). So we shouldn’t use that word any more. True conservatism would be more left wing than democrats today.

The GOP has become a reactionary or “paleo-conservative” which is really a misnomer too. What they really are now is a theocratic fascist party. But really they have no values at all except power and hate and inequality.

There are no real centrists, there is no center here. They are really corporatists who are willing to play politics in order to please the big capitalists or plutocracy. They love trump because they can keep cutting of left wing politics and not have a platform. In foreign policy they are fascist as well (american exceptionalism, a belief in inequality based on identity).

hglman,

The gop are not the reactionary part, the DNC is. They are also centrists between the gop and a ghost of policies to the left.

Flumpkin,

I think we’re speaking different languages.

winterayars,

“If this were a real problem then Bill Gates would have fixed it but now.”

uis,

I wanted to say how I have my basic needs met, isn’t part of social group that is threatened and don’t see left as waste of tax spending, but then I remembered about good Uncle Voencom that happily sends to die for Putin’s yacth, so I don’t count as not part of social group that is threatened.

Speculater,

“If we just improve the education system, racism will go away.” - My centrist friend

Bro, no. Also, who the fuck do you think is trying to fund education? Assuming we even accept your premise.

SchizoDenji,

Your friend is sort of correct. Improving education across the board would do leaps and bounds to help solve the problem.

100_kg_90_de_belin,

As if whole branches of science hadn’t been proved to be racist both bottom up and top down

Infynis,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

Education does help, or the right wouldn’t be trying to gut it so hard. But it’s not all we need

uis,

Education system is broad enough term for your friend to be correct

Empricorn,

You’re right, of course, but a key trait of sociopaths is viewing people through the lens of what they can do for them.

Kase,

Are you saying centrists are sociopaths?

Empricorn,

I’m saying anyone who views other people this way has sociopathic tendencies. They just mentioned centrists.

sanpedropeddler,

I can’t tell them apart in the way they both seed discord to keep people united behind them. I can’t tell them apart in the way they tear apart families with propaganda. In that sense, I’m a centrist.

You can argue one of them does less material damage all day, but they both rely on each other to exist in their current form. They are both predatory institutions that I will not be a part of.

masquenox,

Good lord… the comments on here proves that lemmy.world is flooded with politically incompetent libs that couldn’t tell the difference between left and right if their lives depended on it.

If you believe that there is such a thing as an actual “left” in formal political establishments, this means you.

chakan2,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

That’s not why we are centrists…it might have more to due with our two choices of geriatric patients who are in a steep mental decline.

webadict,

You’re centrist because the candidates representing two major political parties are old? So, if a young person showed up, you’d vote for them, regardless of their platform?

chakan2,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

Possibly.

PopcornTin,

Nope, you’re either with us completely, or you want genocide of everybody. There’s no other nuisance here.

chakan2,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

Lol…sure.

distractionfactory,

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic. Either way, this is definitely the message that’s being broadcasted on loop in a lot of places, especially here. On the surface it seems to be trying to convince swing voters to lean left. If that’s the case, it very much misses the mark. I’m not positive that this is a US specific message, but that is my perspective.

I had a much longer rant typed out, but it wasn’t terribly constructive. The long and short of it is that we have a lot of problems that need to be addressed in this world that have yet to even be acknowledged (and thus no solutions proposed) because they are being drowned out by the handful of arguments that are the most emotionally charged and thus, least productive to debate. Every election has been a “race to the bottom” and every year it starts earlier, lasts longer, and gets stupider. That is to say, there is no intellectual consideration whatsoever. It is no longer a discussion about governance, it is a cheerleading mantra for a sports team. The arguments are all emotionally charged and feel more like propaganda than discussion - this is what “both sides” are guilty of. The candidates don’t even bother to show up to debates anymore, and it doesn’t seem to make a difference.

I have my opinion about who is the worst option, but that does nothing to convince someone looking for a reason to vote **for ** someone, not **against ** someone.

JairSterre,

The left: we’re gonna spy on everyone to make sure you’re fine and doing well!

The right: dude nobody’s looking who cares

Centrists: are either of you sure and aware of your statements?

webadict,

Doesn’t the right want to check the genitals of children and police bathrooms so those lovely trans kids don’t accidentally live a normal life?

JairSterre,

Nah the right don’t give a shit about that, that’s the conservatives.

Political right means more individualism, and being able to live without government interference where it’s not neccesary.

Political left means more involved government, both helping people and keeping an eye out for criminals/things people do that could be considered criminal.

People like to forget that the whole world is not Murica :)

webadict,

There are plenty of right-wing governments that are staunchly anti-queer, and the reason would be that queer would fall under non-traditional (queer is literally synonymous with odd, weird, etc.)

Right-wing has several definitions, but using “individualism” would be incorrect for most of them. Right-wing would include heirarchical, traditional, militaristic, and/or authoritarian values. The only individuals that are respected in the political right are those at the top of heirarchies (e.g. authority figures like the military and police). What you espouse as individualism would likely be (little L) libertarianism, which is a classically left-wing philosophy.

I think you might be confused about your political left, as well.

Cowbee,

The left is not saying this.

JairSterre,

Depends on where you are. Where I am at the right cares more about privacy, the left more about security.

The left cares less about privacy, mostly because most of their supporters are younger.

We have a system that allows both sides, parted in different parties, to decide together on certain laws.

Cowbee,

Where I am, there is no left parry, just 2 right wing parties. The actual left is still firmly pro-privacy and pro-security in the hands of individuals.

PopcornTin,

Kinda like the right doesn’t say that. But here, points don’t matter and we make up the rules as we go.

intensely_human,

The left:

The right: we’re gonna do genocide

The right:

Uh, what? Can you provide any evidence of this whatsoever? Like, a shred perhaps?

The left:

You’re racist!

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

While transgender people in the United States have historically struggled to live freely, deliberate calls for eradication of transgender people arose with particular force in the 2020s.[citation needed] At CPAC in 2023, Daily Wire host Michael Knowles gave a speech where he said, “Transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.” In response to people who said that he was calling for genocide, Knowles stated that “nobody [was] calling to exterminate anybody”.[25] As part of his 2024 presidential campaign, Donald Trump vowed to stop gender-affirming care for minors, calling it “child mutilation.”[26] Project 2025, a document outlining intended conservative policies, called “purveyors” of “transgender ideology[. . .]child predators and misogynistic exploiters of children.”[27] Project 2025 conflates transgender people with pornography, and calls for pornography to be outlawed, for teachers and librarians who talk about transgender people to be imprisoned, and all telecommunications that allows transgender people to talk on it to be shuttered.[28]

Sue E. Spivey and Christine Robinson have argued that the ex-gay movement, which encourages transgender as well as other LGBT people to renounce their identities, advocates social death and therefore could meet some legal definitions of genocide.[32]: 68–70 Spivey and Robinson argued that “by waging a culture war using hate propaganda and misusing scientific research to gain public legitimacy, the movement seeks to deploy state powers and the medical profession to perpetrate genocidal acts on its behalf.”[32]: 83

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United…

Cowbee,

Trail of Tears, American Slavery, the actual Holocaust, what’s going on in Palestine right now, and many more.

duffman,
pizzazz,

This forum is exactly like its reddit counterpart: hot garbage

masquenox,

Oh look… a centrist.

pizzazz,

No I’m a leftist who thinks misrepresenting and degrading political discourse to the level of 5 year old children is idiotic.

masquenox,

level of 5 year old children

Well, I’ve never witnessed “adult” reasoning work on a centrist - maybe we should give the 5-year olds a try.

Dra, (edited )

ALL Leftists according to rightists: “all I want is basic needs met, obviously anyone who doesn’t grant a toddler universal basic income, and free on demand sex change surgery and accompanying hormones is obviously a nazi. Also, fuck white people, fuck men, fuck anyone in an incumbent demographic category. Simply by being male and white you should immediately pay reparations for daring to exist. Anyone who even asks about any of these subjects is committing a crime and should never be allowed to speak again. Also it’s illegal to not be attracted to fat people”

ALL Rightists according to leftists: “Anyone who I’m too stupid to understand shouldn’t exist. There is no middle ground or grey area on anything, it’s my way or the highway. All minorities shouldn’t exist at all, no one should exist who doesn’t conform to my specific set of arbitrary values. Anyone who says otherwise is a communist and hates themselves. Literally everyone must die. The police never make mistakes and any form of authority must be taken as 100% true at face value”

Centrists: “you both seem extremely closed-minded and I’m struggling to come to any conclusion other than being extreme is bad, and that these are complex subjects. I will try to focus on not being extreme.”

Yeah anyone can write literally anything you fucking idiots

Edit: how you know you were right - butthurt downvotes without accompanying replies

Cowbee,

The right is focused on enforcing and upholding hierarchy, and oppression of minority groups. The left is focused on combating entrenched hierarchy and oppression. Simple enough.

HopFlop,

Thats your biased opinion.

Cowbee,

It’s not an opinion, it’s the definition of right and left.

Dra,

Are you really so single minded that you cannot see the negatives you are glossing over? Hierarchy is an accepted part of society, human nature, and is the main mechanism by which resentment is kept at bay.

If you have ever dismissed someone as “stupid” you are bought into that. You accept/assert that some people don’t have the same cognitive ability as you, and this is a bad thing, and what they have to say is LESS VALUABLE than what you have to say.

As a generally progressive and intelligent species, we can no doubt find a place for that person in society based on their other merits, but don’t get it fucked up.

Cowbee,

Appealing to some vague sense of “Human Nature” is a naturalistic fallacy, whether or not something is natural does not make it better or worse.

Secondly, hierarchy usually presents itself in unjustifiable manners, such as the Capitalist/Worker hierarchy, which Socialism abolishes. These can be replaced with democratically appointed representatives, or with direct democracy itself, both of which are less hierarchical.

Dra,

You seem to have taken the weakest part of what I said and ignored the strongest part

To suggest that hierarchy doesn’t have value doesn’t require a naturalistic observation. Rape occurs in nature, we can ideally do without it, so let’s dispense of the natural argument altogether if you find it so distasteful as a correlative observation.

Simply demonstrating contempt for something on the basis that it is observable is as equally useless. Communicating with other people sometimes results in harm as well, but no one possesses the systemic understanding to reliably dismiss communication as more harmful than good, so we leave it in place, as its benefits seem to be widely accepted as outweighing the negatives.

Hierarchy, is a just occurrence that is of demonstrative value, when compared to a total lack of it. More accurately, removing hierarchy is demonstrably harmful as mentioned.

Suggesting that the right is only interested in maintaining it regardless of circumstance (which is what I think you implied, but correct me) and that the left is only interested in removing it, is as false as the argument that either of those things is good.

This is the flavour of oversimplification and unintelligent polarity that makes fence-sitting appealling to many, trapped between overzealous, under-informed members of the “red” or “blue” team.

Cowbee,

Leftism is opposition to unjust hierarchy, yes, while rightism is entrenching it. Monarchism and Feudalism are right wing, as is Capitalism, as is fascism.

The basis of Socialism is of removing the unjustifiable hierarchy of the Worker/Owner divide. The basis of Communism is going even further and removing the statist element as well. Anarchism is additionally fully leftist.

Fence-sitting is appealing because many people benefit by supporting the status quo, or are ill-informed.

Arthur_Leywin,

“I’m fiscally Republican and socially a Liberal” is another great line to hide behind.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, but socially liberal? Sounds like you’re a tankie. Maybe tone it down a notch or you’ll lose voters.

Arthur_Leywin,

Please give me whatever drugs you took. I want what you’re having 🤣

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

It’s called brunch, sweetie, and I’m getting back to it.

mellowheat,

Why?

Cowbee,

It’s just a giveaway that someone is conservative but doesn’t want to associate openly with fascists.

mellowheat,

In the minds of people like that, and I’m speaking from experience now, it’s much more logical to be fiscally classical liberal (not sure if Republicans are that, but perhaps that’s kind of what they claim to be in some other wording) and also socially liberal. They are both sides of the same coin: freedom in how you behave, who you are; but also who you do business with and how. And don’t take the freedoms of others either.

I don’t feel any kind of draw to associating with fascists, they are the worst.

Floshie,

In an American point of view if I may

rival,
@rival@mastodon.social avatar

@FlyingSquid In my humble experience and understanding 'centrism' has been always an euphemism for 'far right' for the "politically correct" miserable cowards...

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Agreed.

FMT99,

And in my humble experience, some significant part of the left has increasingly turned to dogmatic absolutism in recent years, maybe under influence of social media. I’m far from a centrist (would consider myself fairly radically left wing in many aspects) but I’ve been called a bootlicking scumbag for saying something like “not every single police officer is the absolute scum of the earth.”

I’ve always held that one of the key parts of what sets us apart from the right wing is that we allow questioning our own beliefs and are open to nuance. But that seems to be less and less the case.

rival,
@rival@mastodon.social avatar

@FMT99 Agree, but I don't see this as a recent development. Dogmatic absolutism, or mere dogmatism, has been a very long and old issue -not just in the left, obviously.
Anyway, about police, the problem ain't single ones, but the social role that apparatus plays in the social regime. (Most police individuals usually came from the working class...)

bernieecclestoned,

That’s quite a humble understanding imho. Centrists are technocratic. Evidence led, not ideological. Take good ideas from the centre right on regulating business and combine that with social policies from the left.

The Nordic model basically.

masquenox,

Evidence led

I have yet to encounter a self-described “centrist” that can justify their hollow pandering with anything that can remotely be called evidence.

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