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morphballganon, in Enlightened centrist knows both sides are to blame

If only one side is trying to take away equal rights from a group, and you respond by saying “nuh uh both sides” then yes you are a hater and a moron.

idunnololz,
@idunnololz@lemmy.world avatar

But at least I am enlightened uwu /s

DarkDarkHouse,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Wanting to live in peace is just so aggressive

Viking_Hippie, (edited )

deleted_by_moderator

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  • RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    One side is trying to rob the rights of a group of people, the other side is burning down their own cities claiming to be saving the lives of a marginalized group. One side is advocating for guns to stay legal and accessible while children are mass murdered, the other side has members dressing up in all black and assaulting people in their peaceful protests. One side is denying climate change as the world literally crumbles in front of us, the other is advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement officers.

    Both sides are so fucking stupid that I’d feel embarrassed to be a part of either. While my principles are more in line with the left, they are so far from an ideal party that I still wince knowing they’re the best choice I have. Centrists are hated by both sides because we aren’t partisan dick suckers but my god try to have an independent thought. You don’t have to completely agree with every shit take your party churns out. You’re allowed to not be happy with them and still vote for them.

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    Name one city that was “burned down”.

    rockSlayer,

    Perhaps you’d prefer we reduce reduce the scale of police duties so we can have dedicated public safety responders for different situations? We can fund it by proportionally using money that police no longer need.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d prefer to have elected oversight committees that dictate exactly where every dollar of the police budget goes so we stop buying Armored Personal Carriers from military surplus and put it into fucking training so people don’t confuse their tasers with their sidearms. I’d like a perfect police force that doesn’t fuck up and panic leading to people dying unnecessarily, but that doesn’t happen if they have less money for proper training. It doesn’t happen so long as they’re only accountable to themselves.

    I’m down to make the police better, to structure the systems in a better way. I’m not down to abolish them and leave a gaping hole where a critical pillar of society should be.

    TheSambassador,

    Nobody who is worth listening to ever advocated for abolishing all police and not replacing them with something else. Pretty much everyone agrees that some form of law enforcement is necessary. There are differences in what that law enforcement looks like, but I feel like everyone other than cops can see that police culture and the way that they abuse their power and protect each other is a problem.

    The problem with how you look at things is that you’re seeing only the most extreme positions of each group and assuming that each “side” holds those views.

    Madison420,

    I love when people say “burning their own cities down” point to a city that “burned down”.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh my bad, they didn’t 100% complete it and get all the collectables so it doesn’t count.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Which one did they complete, say, 15% of? Which city had 15% of it burned down?

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    So it doesn’t matter that a dozen buildings were set on fire, looted, and ruined? Doesn’t matter shop owners were beat with planks of wood? So long as we’re under that 15% it’s acceptable, yeah? I’m glad the defense is “Well they didn’t do enough of it so what’s your point?”

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s not an answer. You said cities (multiple) “burned down.” Now you’re suggesting not even 15% of one city burned down? Make up your mind.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes and you’re taking the braindead take that for a city to be set fire to it has to reach your arbitrary 15% ratio or it doesn’t count. Shit burned down but for you to acknowledge it, it has to really cripple the whole city huh? Something something goalposts.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you not know what “burned down” means?

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar
    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Which city was destroyed? Name it.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    Minneapolis. 164 structure fires in three days. 200 buildings affected. Oscar Lee Stewart Jr. died as a result. I didn’t even know that last part. So you kill people to save people, that’s interesting.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Doesn’t sound destroyed to me.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Also, I killed someone? That’s quite a claim. Please prove that I killed this man. Unless that was a lie.

    Piers,

    If you’re gonna keep moving goalposts then just hold onto them and keep walking until you hit a specific nameable city and plant them down there.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    Holy fuck you don’t even know what moving the goalposts means. I didn’t realize how fucking awful the left was with the pseudo intellectualism. Call it a strawman next. Oh oh, ad hominem too. Just throw all the terms at the wall and hope to god you sound smart. Here, I’ll help you since you have such a short memory.

    Piers,

    Do you know what moving the goalpoasts means? Why don’t you explain it to me. Perhaps with reference to how it doesn’t apply to this conversation?

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    Who are the people that allegedly did this and what are their affiliations? Who of any prominence endorses them? You keep bringing this nonsense up as if it has any kind of relevance or traction outside the right wing lying liars’ echo chambers.

    BigNote,

    Sure it matters. The point is that “a dozen buildings” is very different from " burning down their cities."

    In any case it’s a bullshit premise because those rioters never represented mainstream sentiment on the left.

    heretoseetitties,

    You’re just full of all sorts of bad takes

    magnusrufus,

    Not the only thing they are full of.

    Gabadabs,
    Gabadabs avatar

    "Burning down their own cities claiming to be saving the lives of a marginalized group". Yes, looting happens, things are broken. Things. Property. Because at the end of the day, what our system listens to is the interests of business owners, and they listen to lost money. Stonewall was a riot, and whether or not you think that it's better to go through bureaucracy to stop the oppression of minorities or not, clearly riots are effective. These cities aren't being destroyed, and they get repaired, and sure that sucks for the business owners that have to deal with that... but human lives matter more.
    I think the people that you are thinking of, who are dressing up and assaulting peaceful protests are the proud boys. Who are fascists. Most leftists protesters are not attacking people, they are defending themselves. Because cops happily resort to violence first and foremost.
    "advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement officers."
    Strict punishment and law enforcement doesn't work. In the US we have incredibly high rates of recidivism, and more prisoners than pretty much any other country. Cops solve very few crimes, and are there to protect property rather than people. That's why when protests happen, they go out in armored vehicles and use tear gas to protect businesses, but they would never do that you protect you or your home. Eliminating modern cops doesn't mean that you do nothing to enforce laws and protect your communities, it has to do with how that effort is organized. The profit based power-trip cops we have exist because the system is broken.
    The problem with centrism, in general, is that ignorance of nuance. You aren't right just because you picked a point in the middle. One side is fascists, and the other just wants to live.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    “The problem with centrism, in general, is that ignorance of nuance.” I love how you preceded this comment illustrating how black and white everything is and after say “one side is fascists and the other isn’t” You do realize nuance would be cascading gray, yes? That it means the right side would also have some level of nuance, yes? Both sides LOVE to jerk themselves off as intellectual juggernauts then contradict themselves because they’re not actually the intellectuals they claim to be, they’re regurgitating what they heard smarter people argue on their behalf. “strict punishment and law enforcement doesn’t work” holy fuck point to a single country, providence, or territory in the world that can operate without law enforcement. You are unironically advocating for anarchy and can’t see how fucking retarded the notion of that is. “it sure sucks business owners have to deal with that but human lives are more important.” So to save lives you destroy other people’s livelihoods? Did it work? Are we done now or are those people out tens of thousands of dollars? Their entire lifes work destroyed because you wanted some fucking attention and did fuck all with it. No, that’s such a shit take that your empty fucking virtue will not save you from.

    They dress up in white hoods, you dress up in black beanies. You’re two sides of the same god awful coin and instead of pursuing a change that would disrupt two shit choices, you fully embrace one and denigrate critics. You are just barely less of the monster you claim the right is and you’re so devoid of the nuance you believe to be aware of that you refuse to step back and criticize your own failures. Refuse to improve so that detractors have less to call you out on.

    Gabadabs,
    Gabadabs avatar

    The world is not black and white, of course. But if we're talking about the modern day Republican party and it's voters, it's very clear what's going on. I'm no intellectual, and neither are you, so let's keep this respectful. I'll repeat that eliminating our police force doesn't mean not enforcing laws, but rather is rooted in how that effort is organized. Most crime is a direct result of poverty, if you want to effectively decrease crime, you need to improve people's standards of living. Things like affordable housing projects, raising minimum wages, more paid vacation, better public transportation, cancelling student debt, decriminalization of drug possession and use, etc.
    Our police force doesn't want to decrease crime because our prisons are for-profit and they make more of they book more prisoners.
    You can point fingers at me if you want. I guess? I haven't participated in looting or rioting. My point was that it's effective regardless of whether you support it.
    Also, humanity enforced laws for a long time before our police system was designed.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Which city was burned down? How many millions died?

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    Hell yeah, deaths don’t matter till we hit at least a million. Cities burning don’t count till the whole thing falls. That’s some awesome standards you’ve got.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    So no city burned down despite you literally saying so?

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    Nah just hoped you had a better memory than a goldfish but here, I’ll dig up an article for you to read. Your echochamber must be real well built.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    First of all, that’s paywalled.

    Secondly, Minneapolis definitely did not burn down. Or if they did, they rebuilt very quickly.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    “That’s paywalled” - The picture of them reducing a building to ash isn’t. “Or if they did, they rebuilt very quickly” - Here I’ll help you CARRY THOSE GOALPOSTS. Where we putting them down at this time? (That’s how that term is used by the way.) I’m bored of this same song on repeat though, have a good day, please have some independent thoughts.

    Ensign_Crab,

    “That’s paywalled” - The picture of them reducing a building to ash isn’t.

    A building is much smaller than a city.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Ah, so one building means a city burned down. Interesting. Does a house burn down when it has a kitchen fire?

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    So you’re claiming only one building was set fire to in Minneapolis? That’s a bold fucking take.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m claiming Minneapolis didn’t burn down. I showed you proof.

    rockSlayer,

    I live in the twin cities metro, literally 5 minutes from University. There weren’t many buildings that burned down, and the district 3 pig pen burning to the ground is largely regarded as “based as fuck”. There were a few small businesses that burned down due to anarchy tourists, and those businesses are greatly missed. The other buildings that burned were megacorporations, which is also based.

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    Who did it and who are they affiliated with? Those of us not glued to right wing apology and grievance networks and who do not have the memory of a goldfish might remember The Umbrella Man:

    The Umbrella Man

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    The other thing here is that these people make this implicit leap to assuming it’s somehow some liberals/leftists that did any of the acts of vandalism. Who is endorsing any of that on the left? I mean, someone of actual prominence and viewed with reverence by people on the left?

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    What cities burned? Who burned them? How do you know they are not off-duty cops and/or agent provocateurs that are sympathetic to fascists?

    rambaroo,

    Burning down their cities? Where the fuck is that happening? I’m so sick of that blatant lie. You aren’t a centrist, you’re a liar, and that’s why people hate you.

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep. They just told on themselves.

    And I bet they have no idea why.

    gmtom,

    Anime pfp and unironic Marcus Aurelius quote. I can practically see your katana and fedora collection from here.

    Please just go back to reddit. We don’t want or need people like you here.

    Viking_Hippie,

    burning down cities

    Never happened. This is an oft-debunked right wing echochamber strawman and as such, anyone who invokes it is either right wing, an impressionable useful idiot or, most likely, both.

    Not even going to adress the rest of your strawmen, false equivalences and irrational conclusions since you’re barely worth the time and effort I’ve already wasted on your rank stupidity.

    RealFknNito,
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

    My brother in Christ Antifa throwing molotovs on video recording is not an echochamber strawman [insert another logical fallacy to sound cool]. Hell they made a lot of noise about Target getting hit too but yeah let’s just sweep those pictures under the rug too, didn’t happen. All those locally owned businesses? Nah, not looted, you said so. An elderly woman beaten with planks of wood for asking rioters not to break her windows? Definitely didn’t happen, just a strawman.

    You’re a fucking pseudo intellectual. Don’t reply if you’re going to just jerk yourself off with nothing comments.

    Viking_Hippie,

    I’m not your brother in religious delusions.

    I’m pointing out your logical fallacy not to sound cool, but in order to warn anyone else who might be susceptible to being tricked that you’re employing rhetorical trickery to make an invalid claim sound plausible by making a valid counterclaim sound ridiculous.

    Just stop it with the faux-edgy centrist histrionic hyperbole already. You’re not fooling anyone.

    You’re a fucking pseudo intellectual. Don’t reply if you’re going to just jerk yourself off with nothing comments.

    Hey look, I found a picture of you!

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c4944ef4-a5bc-4a17-b1f7-91be30098cb6.jpeg

    CapgrasDelusion, (edited )

    One side is trying to rob the rights of a group of people

    This is a fact.

    the other side is burning down their own cities claiming to be saving the lives of a marginalized group

    This is conjecture.

    One side is advocating for guns to stay legal and accessible while children are mass murdered

    This is a fact and a mainstream position of one side.

    the other side has members dressing up in all black and assaulting people in their peaceful protests

    This is a fantasy. And even were it true it's not a mainstream position.

    One side is denying climate change as the world literally crumbles in front of us

    This is a fact.

    the other is advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement.

    This is a non sequitur, and also false beyond fringes.

    Cryophilia,

    Actually, it’s not “conjecture”, it’s a full-on lie

    Intralexical,

    the other is advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement.

    This is a non sequitur, and also false beyond fringes.

    To be fair, this last one was a slogan explicitly used, at a level where it could be reasonably seen as mainstream depending on how much time you spent on the wrong websites.

    Kinda interesting, really— In-group signalling incentives greatly harmed the chances for successful out-group messaging.

    And sad, maybe— Could have possibly gotten a good thing going at that point— But I guess “Decrease funding to violent law enforcement in order to reallocate more resources to preventative and constructive community services” just doesn’t have the right ring to it in today’s media environment.

    As it was, it was big enough to get serious attention from several major cities, while also being self-defeating enough to thus far have had apparently basically no lasting positive impact whatsoever yet.

    CapgrasDelusion,

    You linked an article about cutting funding. I responded to a ridiculous comment about the abolition of all law enforcement.

    Intralexical,

    Maybe it’s just me, but my default interpretation when I hear about something being “defunded” is more or less synonymous with complete elimination.

    Either way, it doesn’t really matter, since everything else that comment was saying was indeed just bunk, and even this funding thing was indeed still at most a relatively fringe messaging failure.

    kitsuneofinari, in "Please sir," they said, with tears in their eyes, "please help this fictional white woman escape being treated equally by the law"
    @kitsuneofinari@yiffit.net avatar

    The video as well makes this even better. 😂

    guyrocket,
    guyrocket avatar

    That was really good. Thanks for sharing.

    cash, in Fun fact: 63% of US workers can't afford a $500 expense

    Linking this to just Biden is disingenuous and really buries the lede. This meme just divides us further in service of ignoring that the problem is the entire fucking system and not just one politician or one party.

    ares35,
    ares35 avatar

    well, it is primarily the 'fault' of one political party... it's just not the one currently residing at 1600 penn ave nw

    Changetheview,

    I agree with you, but still think this is still an overly divisive take. This isn’t all directed at you or your comment - just some general observations that I want to share.

    The fact is the damn near all federal politicians and their policies are in favor of their corporate and high-net-worth donors.

    Democrats had the full trifecta after the 2020 election, executive branch and both houses of congress. The didn’t raise the minimum wage. Didn’t rollback trump-era tax cuts. At the end of the day, failed to take decisive action to reverse the wealth/income inequality plaguing the US.

    The same during Obama administration - which set the stage for one of the biggest upward wealth transfers in history in the post-2008 economy.

    Sure, both of these D leaders have made select changes that are against R policies (healthcare and student loan debt). But they aren’t our saviors. They’re undeniably shills for their big donors. Period.

    This is why term limits and donor transparency (I.e., legislating against the Citizens United ruling) are necessary changes. We need actual fucking leadership. Ones who aren’t afraid of making moves that will piss off big donors. Ones who only want to be in politics for a few years to actually make the country better and improve lives for the masses. We simply do not have that option right now, outside a few rare examples.

    It can happen. We just can’t be complacent with the current shit, no matter which uniform they’re in. We need real change led by real leaders.

    Jaysyn,
    Jaysyn avatar

    Democrats had the full trifecta after the 2020 election, executive branch and both houses of congress.

    I used to think this exact same thing. It's false & now a subversive talking point.

    Let's clear that all up, shall we?

    Starting January 2009, at the beginning of the 111th Congress, in the month that Barack Obama was inaugurated president, the House of Representatives was made up of 257 Democrats and 178 Republicans. There is no question that Democrats had total control in the House from 2009-2011.

    Even with numerous "blue-dog" (allegedly fiscally conservative) Democrats often voting with Republicans.....Speaker Pelosi had little difficulty passing legislation in the House. The House does not have the pernicious filibuster rule which the Senate uses. A majority vote in the House is all that's necessary to pass legislation, except in rare occurrences (treaty ratification, overriding a presidential veto).

    Okay, that's the House during the first two years of Barack Obama's presidency. For a lie to prosper, as it were, there needs to be a shred of truth woven inside the lie. It is absolutely true that from 2009-2011, Democrats and President Obama had "total control" of the House of Representatives.

    But legislation does not become law without the Senate.

    The Senate operates with the 60-vote-requirement filibuster rule. There are 100 Senate seats, and it takes 60 Senate votes for "closure" on a piece of legislation....to bring that piece of legislation to the floor of the Senate for amendments and a final vote....that final vote is decided by a simple majority in most cases. But it takes 60 Senate votes to even have a chance of being voted upon.

    "Total control", then, of the Senate requires 60 Democratic or Republican Senators.

    On January 20th, 2009, 57 Senate seats were held by Democrats with 2 Independents (Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman) caucusing with the Democrats...which gave Democrats 59 mostly-reliable Democratic votes in the Senate, one shy of filibuster-proof "total control." Republicans held 41 seats.

    The 59 number in January, 2009 included Ted Kennedy and Al Franken. Kennedy had a seizure during an Obama inaugural luncheon and never returned to vote in the Senate.....and Al Franken was not officially seated until July 7th, 2009 (hotly contested recount demanded by Norm Coleman.)

    The real Democratic Senate seat number in January, 2009 was 55 Democrats plus 2 Independents equaling 57 Senate seats.

    An aside....it was during this time that Obama's "stimulus" was passed. No Republicans in the House voted for the stimulus. However, in the Senate.....and because Democrats didn't have "total control" of that chamber.....three Republicans.....Snowe, Collins and Specter, voted to break a filibuster guaranteeing it's passage.

    Then in April, 2009, Republican Senator Arlen Specter became a Democrat. Kennedy was still at home, dying, and Al Franken was still not seated. Score in April, 2009....Democratic votes 58.

    In May, 2009, Robert Byrd got sick and did not return to the Senate until July 21, 2009. Even though Franken was finally seated July 7, 2009 and Byrd returned on July 21.....Democrats still only had 59 votes in the Senate because Kennedy never returned, dying on August 25, 2009.

    Kennedy's empty seat was temporarily filled by Paul Kirk but not until September 24, 2009.

    The swearing in of Kirk finally gave Democrats 60 votes (at least potentially) in the Senate. "Total control" of Congress by Democrats lasted all of 4 months. From September 24, 2009 through February 4, 2010...at which point Scott Brown, a Republican, was sworn in to replace Kennedy's Massachusetts seat.

    The truth....then....is this: Democrats had "total control" of the House of Representatives from 2009-2011, 2 full years. Democrats, and therefore, Obama, had "total control" of the Senate from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010. A grand total of 4 months.

    Did President Obama have "total control" of Congress? Yes, for 4 entire months. And it was during that very small time window that Obamacare was passed in the Senate with 60 all-Democratic votes.

    Did President Obama have "total control' of Congress during his first two years as president? Absolutely not and any assertions to the contrary.....as you can plainly see in the above chronology....is a lie.

    https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/

    Changetheview,

    The technical details of that article are valid. A simple majority doesn’t mean you can pass any legislation you want.

    But it does mean you hold what’s usually called the trifecta by most who are interested in this sort of thing, and it also means your party should be at basically the peak of its power. Minimizing this fact is looking at the trees and missing the forest.

    And even then, this article admits that Obama actually DID have this for 4 months. They could have had bills ready to go and sent them through like wildfire. But they didn’t. To say “it’s not the democrats’ fault” is letting these leaders off way too easily.

    The republicans after the 2016 election were able to pass a comprehensive tax bill which greatly benefited the wealthy in exchange for minuscule and temporary benefits to others. They also repealed countless Obama-admin executive actions and fucking STACKED the courts. How? By using their majority powers to put things to a vote and winning over the few opposing votes they needed through bribery.

    All without the full 60 seats this article claims is necessary. The democrats when they hold the trifecta should be able to do the same thing.

    The democrats are not pulling their weight when they have the chance to. 60 seats or not, having the simple majority and the executive power should be enough to get shit done. They let republicans do it, then fail to do so when they can. Don’t let someone convince you they just haven’t had the chance and they’re your saviors.

    Jaysyn, (edited )
    Jaysyn avatar

    And even then, this article admits that Obama actually DID have this for 4 months. They could have had bills ready to go and sent them through like wildfire. But they didn’t. To say “it’s not the democrats’ fault” is letting these leaders off way too easily.

    Did President Obama have "total control" of Congress? Yes, for 4 entire months. And it was during that very small time window that Obamacare was passed in the Senate with 60 all-Democratic votes.

    You: Why didn't the Democrats 14 years ago do the same thing the Fascists just did in Congress?

    That you are thinking this makes me doubt you were even cognizant of politics in 2009.

    Changetheview,

    Obamacare did very little to actually change the insurance or medical industries and is a perfect example of what I’m saying. If you think the democratic leaders are willing to piss off big donors, you’re wrong. It provided more insurance access and subsidized the existing industry. It did NOT tackle the inherent problems with the US healthcare industry in any meaningful way. Was it better than the alternative? Absolutely. Was it the change that’s actually needed? Not at all.

    Me: Democrats have held the trifecta TWICE since 2008 and had the executive leadership for all but 4 years. That’s 11 fucking years as the President and 4 of those with majority of both houses on congress. They have had the power, full stop.

    Republicans meanwhile held the presidency for 4 of those years, trifecta for 2. And got a massive tax cut, greatly increased control of the courts, and gutted multiple federal agencies and budgets with lasting consequences.

    Your personal attacks are a little wild man. You have no idea how old I am or what experience I have. I’ll just leave it at I am extremely well educated, knowledgeable, and experienced in the political, legal, and economic spheres. Not armchair analysis bullshit. Real world understanding and experience of how this whole system works. With multiple degrees and the resume to back it up.

    And the only thing I am saying is do not trust current federal leadership to do anything except keep their big donors happy. That’s the system we’re in. Is one party better than the other? Absolutely. Has that party actually made progress in the fight for the people? Fuck no.

    If you’re won over by a “but they haven’t had 60 seats!” argument and don’t think we need change that’s more than the current leaders or system offers, that’s pretty short sighted. You should be furious that these leaders aren’t doing more to help.

    Jaysyn, (edited )
    Jaysyn avatar

    And what I'm saying is quit fucking spreading talking points.

    We already know the democrats are a big tent. We already know they should be three separate parties. We also understand math, game theory & how what you want doesn't fucking work at all with First Past the Post voting.

    The is outlawing other voting methods for that reason.

    Pick and support a fucking side, or everyone else.

    Changetheview,

    You don’t think I can criticize my government? Because someone on the other team says the same thing?

    I am absolutely pissed that democratic leaders have done jack shit when they have held so much power since 2008. And I’ll shout that from the top of any mountain.

    Absolutely nowhere am I saying R leaders are better. I’m saying we can and should be pissed about this fact of D leaders. You are the one sewing discourse against someone that is calling for progress. Not me.

    pjhenry1216,

    Pretending one party isn't much more behind that kind of economy than the other is disingenuous as well. Dems at least try to put in benefits to support workers who aren't paid a lot or in some cases have even tried to raise wages (which by itself is only a half step). Republicans are against benefits and against supporting wages.

    So you can say one is misguided because they're trying to support both corporate and individual interests. But ignoring that half of the equation is not helpful.

    You can't just say both are equally bad as that simply justifies not voting or equating voting for either is bad. Yes, both parties are not "good" but one would be much easier to "fix" than the other.

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    Furthermore, establishing that the economy is strong is a necessary counterpoint to inevitable GOP talking points of "Of COURSE the rich can't pay you more; the economy, she is vewwy sick right now".

    Society is busted - but Biden trying to get the messaging out ahead of the GOP isn't the sinister plot the OP seems to think it is.

    justdoit,

    While I don’t necessarily disagree with you, it’s important to note that a centerpiece of Biden’s reelection campaign is “Bidenomics”. HE’S the one trying to link the current/future economic trajectory to his presidency here, not us.

    That’s just one of the many reasons this message feels so tone-deaf. It reminds me of those ridiculous “I did that!” stickers that people were putting on gas pumps. Only now, it’s the Biden campaign that’s basically saying “yup, we really did do that” but for the entire economy.

    KevonLooney,

    Do you know what’s in the “Inflation Reduction Act” that Biden and the Democrats passed? This dude kicked pharma companies in the nuts and it sounds like you have no idea.

    meat_popsicle,

    Did they now? When will the Pharma part take effect? Are court cases heading to the Supreme Court to overturn that function?

    Personally, I don’t think the IRA means anything for Pharma companies. SCOTUS will get their backs and block anything that cuts their profits as unconstitutional. It’s 6-3 and they love love love Pharma companies.

    KevonLooney,

    Do you know anything about the act? Are you “just asking questions”?

    Why don’t you look up the answers so you can contribute informed opinions.

    justdoit,

    Ah yes, as everyone knows, the economy is made up entirely of our interactions with pharma companies.

    US Census data definitely hasn’t recorded a yet another year of decline for real median household income. Supplemental Poverty definitely didn’t see its first overall rise in the last year in over a decade.. Child Supplemental Poverty definitely didn’t double last year after maintaining a historic low due to the expiration of child tax credits. The Gini Index certainly isn’t maintaining its 50 year high.. Personal savings as a percentage of disposable income definitely didn’t decrease by 13% in three years. And in conjunction with all this, the ticking time bomb of the household debt service ratio is certainly not recently tending upwards and is projected to continue due to high interest rates

    But yeah, totally, us stupid ungrateful American workers who went a couple years without wage growth and are further squeezed out of the possibility of homeownership probably just haven’t read the IRA. Otherwise we’d join all you very well-read geniuses celebrating an inflation-locked price increase specifically for a portion of Medicare Part B and D biologics which lack generics and which doesn’t limit launch prices at all. Oh, and whose non-interference exceptions don’t take effect for another two years and are contingent on a good-faith agreement from a presidential cabinet position which has a very real chance of falling into Republican control. Specifically, the Republican who has already made overtures towards getting rid of drug rebates.

    Crazy that some of us are not more excited about the economy. Probably just in our imagination, huh?

    RooRLoord420,

    And to add to this it’s not only the strength of the economy, but also the effect that the strong economy is having on workers as a plank of his campaign is my biggest gripe. For a good number of people in my region gross wages rose over the last year or two, but nowhere near enough to meet inflation. The base rent alone on non-subsidized units have more than doubled since the pandemic with an anemic response in wages or public assistance. In fact, the wage increases a lot of service sector jobs are seeing has had an unintended consequence of driving people off of public assistance because they’re now over the federal guidelines despite below AMI.

    PugJesus, in All tankies are trash, tbqh
    PugJesus avatar

    No, believing capitalism must fall, even by revolutionary means, does not make you a tankie.

    No, believing that the left is hamstrung and baited by the powers that be does not make you a tankie.

    No, opposing US imperialism does not make you a tankie.

    No, believing in a planned economy does not make you a tankie.

    What makes you a tankie is supporting authoritarian regimes crushing everything a leftist is supposed to stand for, because 'West bad' or 'Critical support for Comrade Xi's concentration camps!'

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Fuck socialism, but fuck US imperialism too (can’t keep markets free if you get invaded by the US when you refuse to eat their shit)

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    What've you got against socialism in general? It's a very broad term.

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    I definitely am not against unions and the defence of worker’s rights (Specially for the USA, you fuckers have like 19th century working conditions) but there are quite some things in Marxist theory that I disagree with

    Like, that part where it’s the amount of work done that adds value to goods. Like, I could literally pick up a diamond meteorite that just fell on my yard and it would be extremely valuable. Scarcity is definitely a bigger factor than work put into goods. There’s also this thing of having no real incentives to be more efficient, but that might be more command economy specific

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    We could have a long conversation about this, but I think the easiest way would simply be to say that:

    1. Marxism is not the only form of socialism

    2. Command economy is very, VERY specific to the style of Marxism-Leninism that was exported by the Soviet Union. You might find interest in anarcho-syndicalism, mutualism, and market socialism. Not because I think you'll necessarily agree with them, but because they posit very different ideas about how a socialist economy should work.

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t assume I didn’t know about those ideas. And don’t assume either that I’d like them. I mentioned Marxism as Marx is considered to be the “father of scientific socialism”

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    I didn't say that you'd like them, I only brought them up because you included a specific criticism of command economies when asked for your issue with socialism.

    bane_killgrind,

    You don't like anarcho-syndicalism?

    SCB,

    Dude any “ism” that begins with “anarcho-” is just waiting for a smart person to become a dictator.

    If you don’t realize that, it’s just proof you’re not the smart person who would take over, not that it wouldn’t happen

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Anarchism is a childish fantasy

    BROOT,

    Diamonds are literally one of the most artificially inflated gemstone values in existence. They’re also the most abundant. Just pointing that out for when you try to argue your point again.

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    And yet it would have a high value despite it having gone through no worker’s hands.

    Yes, the economy is crazy in quite a lot of cases, yes, sometimes things are overvalued and that further proves Marx’s stance wrong

    BROOT,

    Oh, yeah, I’m not disagreeing. I guess diamonds work for that, I’m just saying it’s not rare at all.

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Well, I specified that it fell from the sky, that definitely is a plus

    BROOT,

    True. Just for clarity, I think the Marxist socio-economic platform is absolute horseshit and doesn’t survive contact at all with the Information Age, because it necessitates an industrial/agrarian society.

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod, (edited )
    Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

    That diamond would be worth a lot more if you put in the labor to cut and polish it. Almost like labor adds value to resources.

    Also: Who says you own what falls on the ground?

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    I own it because I took it while nobody else claimed it

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
    Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

    How do you plan on enforcing that claim?

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Simple: as nobody else claimed it I just take it and leave it in my home

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
    Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

    And what happens when an angry mob or lawyers or jackbooted thugs come and take it?

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s why the state must protect private property. In the case of the lawyers, if the claims are unfounded then I would get to keep it

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
    Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

    That's why the state must protect private property

    Oh, so you get special thugs that are allowed to use violence. That doesn't seem fair.

    Also: Now you see the violence inherent in the system.

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, we get special thugs that protect what’s of each person.

    Sure, it’s probably even more violent than a literal mob trying to steal my stuff just because they want to. Well, it was that way in the Neolithic (raiding settlements) and that’s why its inhabitants decided to have some kind of protection by and for the settlement.

    It’s literally not that hard to understand: you use force to prevent people from raiding your settlement, then the settlement grows with more safety and that’s literally how we stopped being either nomadic raiders or afraid and impoverished farmers.

    Anarchism would be just going to that step

    dangblingus,

    Tell me you don’t know the definition of political terms. There’s no such thing as free markets anywhere on Earth. Government regulation exists even in wartorn developing nations.

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    In truth, markets cannot exist at all without government intervention.

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Never said otherwise. Markets do need some entity to back them, specially countries

    Diprount_Tomato,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Setting up some rules to prevent corpos from taking more power than the state is not the same as a fucking command economy where all means of production are nationalised

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    Whew!

    The kmer Rouge thing is crazy, and I just had my first encounter with it in the wild.

    Lately I’ve been feeling alienated from both liberals and the extreme “left”.

    The liberals boot lick two party politics and shill for corporations. “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good” while letting good enough be the enemy of better.

    The tankies boot lick shitty individuals and put mere men on pedestals, murdering in the name of “progress”.

    Can’t win I tell ya! 💁

    HelixDab2,

    Lately I’ve been feeling alienated from both liberals and the extreme “left".

    Political ideology isn’t a straight line spectrum though. At the extreme far left, you have people that oppose any form of authoritarian control, people that are in favor of absolute authoritarian control, and people that think that some authoritarian control is necessary for society to function. None of these views are inherently wrong per se, but people that are in favor of one flavor or another are going to see champions of there version as being above criticism. Tankies are generally in favor of state-control, and so they take criticisms of Lenin and Stalin as personal attacks on them.

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    I should have said tankies instead of extreme left tbh. I consider myself extreme left.

    SCB,

    All of the above does make you dumb tho

    “At least I’m not a tankie” is like, the lowest possible bar to clear

    Bondrewd,

    Indeed. It just very strongly implies being a tankie though.

    If I asked them to describe implementing such a thing, Im pretty sure they would describe just about the way every murderous communist regime began.

    Every economy is planned. There is a framework in which entities function. That is called capitalism. A sandbox where rules are made to make it geared towards growth.

    Even if someone went through with the grandiose plan of setting up a communist regime, they would eventually start simulating capitalism.

    FrowingFostek, in It's that time again...

    Too soon, the reductionist take isn’t going to be funny if trump gets to do a fascism.

    Clent,

    That is the point of these. There is a high chance these posters are foreign propaganda.

    It’s interesting how there is no philosophical difference between certain foreign nations and the American right. They are both threatened by American democracy.

    snek,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Ah yes god forbid people want to say “my vote is worth something, you can’t use it for genocide”.

    LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    That’s the reason this guy is here, he’s either a Russian or a right winger posing as a concerned progressive trying to bleed away support for Biden. He’s a blatantly obvious bad faith actor, just check his post history.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    This same “they’re Russian!” or “it’s a Republican!” line has been used since the 2016 election on me on Reddit. Nothing new and I roll my eyes every time. You’re not allowed to criticize a Republican-lite Dem without being accused of being Russian. I’m actually a leftist gay man in the Los Angeles area but ok…

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
    Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

    Yeah, there’s absolutely no reason for anyone to be upset and if they say so they’re Russkies. /s

    GrammatonCleric,
    @GrammatonCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

  • Loading...
  • LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I don’t know if you’re a Russian or a Republican, but you’re definitely actively pushing for a Trump win, and you’re definitely a liar.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    The hilarious thing is I’m actually telling the truth. I don’t know why some people can’t comprehend that somebody is critical of do nothing politicians.

    LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Sounds like something a liar would say.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Go check my post history on Reddit before I came to Lemmy…

    www.reddit.com/u/return2ozma

    Nero,

    2mil karma

    Holy shit, have you done anything in the last decade besides post on reddit?

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    It was easy for me to reach the frontpage when I was on there before leaving for Lemmy. I left in protest about the API crap.

    LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    So you’ve been a Russian/Republican plant since before coming to Lemmy, so fucking what?

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    You can either continue being delusional or find out why Biden’s polling numbers have slipped to record lows. And then canvas, call, volunteer to help the Biden campaign.

    LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I’m not interested in advice from a Trump shill, thanks.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Here, you can work for the Biden campaign. If the selection is so detrimental then you must do everything possible to get Biden reelected.

    joebiden.com/work-with-us/

    I looked everywhere for a volunteer page but they only want donations and official workers.

    LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I’m not interested in advice from a Trump shill, thanks.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Blue MAGA gonna Blue MAGA. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    LopensLeftArm,
    @LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Go shill for fascism somewhere else troll

    lgstarn,

    If you are living in California (DOUBT), then you have room to be an idiot with your vote since it's not going to go R unless the world is ending anyway. But if you are a Angeleno (DOUBT - what's your favorite donut shop??) then keep your nonsense contained within that state for the rest of us please and thank you.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Born and raised in California. I’m in Long Beach and donut shop is Simone’s. Next question?

    lgstarn,

    Simone's is good enough for me that I'll just ask you to keep your counterproductive-to-reality narrative to California. Long Beach is a long, long way from the rest of the country. If you manage to convince 10 or 100 people in California to have a protest vote it will probably be fine, but if we end up with Trump because you convinced even one person in a purple state to stay home, I will come to Simone's and bitch you out endlessly.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t blame the voters blame the candidate for not building enough trust with the voters.

    RedditWanderer,

    People keep making these memes and telling people not to vote like there isn’t a fucking maniac with a much worse plan for the U.S than anything Biden could ever do.

    We should keep voting-in democrats and force them to present younger candidates. Letting Trump win is definitely not going to get you what you want, and the democrats aren’t “learning” anything when you don’t vote.

    People need to protest after electing these idiots. There has to be a name for how tame America is at protesting things like healthcare and corruption, while instead fighting each other of BLM and other acronyms.

    bdonvr,

    Yeah, voting en masse for the shit they put up every four years is definitely gonna “force them to present younger candidates.”

    Nah I think making them realize they’ll never win unless they ACTUALLY move left is probably more effective a strategy

    RedditWanderer,

    So their too dumb to inact good policies and you think you’ll “make them realize”. Ypi won’t have a democracy left. You force them by protesting while in office, not by whining from your keyboard.

    bdonvr,

    You call this democracy?

    RedditWanderer,

    He says, sitting inside a democracy having never been out of his little “most powerful nation on earth”.

    Icalasari,

    Big issue is that right now, if the GoP wins, they are going to do everything in their power to make any election always go their way

    Really the proper solution is guillotines, but that's a bit hard in this day and age, leaving, "Democrats until the GoP is no longer a fascist dictatorial danger" as the only realistic solution

    Which the Dems know and is why they won't move left - Because they KNOW that, for now, the option is "A beating or getting your limbs gnawed off by a rat"

    bdonvr,

    but that’s a bit hard in this day and age

    It is with that attitude!

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    no one is saying don’t vote

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve been adding to this meme since the 3rd mugshot. It’s still humorous in a dystopian way.

    Nero,

    It’s not.

    DahGangalang,

    Naw, it definitely is.

    Altofaltception,

    democrats aren’t “learning” anything when you don’t vote.

    The Democrats will learn that people will vote them in regardless of whether they run a wet sock of a candidate or a true progressive because the alternative is worse.

    TheGrandNagus,

    Nah. If they don’t vote, Democrats will think “oh, that demographic doesn’t vote. They can be ignored, like the youth” and would drift further right in order to attract votes from people who actually vote.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    The Vote Blue No Matter Who crowd was very vocal about “Just get Biden elected and then we’ll help push him Left”. Then we got Biden into the White House and the pushing him Left went silent.

    SatansMaggotyCumFart,

    Can you explain to me what Blue MAGA is?

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Blue MAGA suggests that certain political sects on the left can be just as blindly faithful to their political leaders as some people on the right.

    SatansMaggotyCumFart,

    Why is it called Blue MAGA?

    Who called it that?

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar
    SatansMaggotyCumFart,

    So you can’t explain to me what it is, you need to get someone else to.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    I told you what it is already. The Dem party loyalists that bend over backwards and think any critique of the Dems is wrong.

    SatansMaggotyCumFart,

    But you didn’t answer my questions.

    I find people who can’t explain concepts on their own and just link other people’s words have no understanding of the subject or they’re just wasting people’s time with no interior have a good faith discussion.

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Meh, believe what you want. I believe I’ve already explained it multiple times. Not sure what else you want.

    superduperenigma,

    And the MAGA crowd is very vocal about “just get Trump into the white house, by election or by force, and then we’ll help him replace democracy with a fascist dictatorship.” Then they got Trump into the White House and once his term ended they attempted a fucking coup to prevent the peaceful transition of power.

    But hey, I guess that’s preferable to a boring, run of the mill president who isn’t quite as left as I’d prefer???

    return2ozma,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Better get off Lemmy then and start canvassing and calling people threatening them to vote for Biden or else.

    mozz,
    @mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

    Earlier in this thread you defended yourself by saying you were "actually telling the truth."

    This person isn't "threatening" anything. They are simply stating the reality, the truth.

    betterdeadthanreddit,

    Reality is a threat to some.

    snek,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    run of the mill president

    not as quite left as I’d prefer

    https://i.imgflip.com/8enb08.jpg

    Grebes, in Critique

    Hubris may have lead to Clinton’s loss but Trump voters made him win. If the powers that be didn’t fully understand the hostility of voters that lead to Trump’s victory then maybe they are not as smart as they think they are but not actively malicious. Trump is actively malicious and surrounds himself with the same. The Democratic Party may have tipped the scales a bit for Hillary but they also must have thought she would get the most votes and was one of the most qualified candidates from either party. I’m not going to defend the two party system but only one is pushing for ranked choice voting, electing by popular vote, and reducing voting restrictions. Not voting or third party isn’t going to make this any better

    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    The issue here is that Bernie was leading polling (among dems,) and killed the NH primary’s popular vote by a landslide and Iowa caucus was the closest margin in Iowa dem history.

    Despite this, the NH superdelegates pledged for Hilary. This performance was in spite of the DNC actively taking steps to harm Bernie’s campaign (cutting access to voter databases; fucking around with debate scheduled).

    To be blunt, the DNC fucked America by not nominating the best possible candidate in ‘16.

    And they’re doing it again. Biden has all the same weaknesses that Hilary has- and some extra besides. Meanwhile Trump has had 4 years to spin and retcon his bullshit to his base; the memories of his term are less fresh.

    He’s weak with the millennial vote (and gen z.)

    He’s soft on the black vote: (he opposed busing for desegregation in the 70’s, said he didn’t want his kids going to a racial zoo- or however he said it,); and then there’s the condescending bullshit he dropped “if you vote for Trump ya ain’t black”.

    Soft on Latino votes; because his border policies also suck. His first two years he could have had motion but now he’s fucked on it.

    Soft in Palestinian and Muslim votes. “Genocide Joe” is a far more apt nickname than anything else Trump has called him.

    Biden has consistently opposed abortion (flip flopped in his ‘19 campaign for president. historically voting for restrictions on abortions, and voted to block federal funding for abortion providers.), and let’s be honest, if he wanted RvW as law; he could easily have gotten that done in his first two years.)

    Biden is historically soft on LGBTQ rights- voting to ban gay marriage.

    While improved from Trump; Biden’s economy still objectively sucks for the vast majority of Americans, 60% of whom are living pay check to pay check. (Which is actually up from Trump’s term; even if it is trumps fault, mostly.)

    Inflation is still fucking most Americans; who are consistently being told it’s our fault (asking for wages) despite record-setting profits for corporations.

    If you’re being honest with yourself, you’d understand a rapist insurrectionist who has proudly declared he wants to be a dictator is the only candidate that Biden could realistically defeat.

    SnotFlickerman,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Not voting or third party isn’t going to make this any better

    I made this post because of bullshit ass assumptions like this. I voted for fucking Clinton with gritted teeth and the same for fucking Biden. I know the fucking stakes, I vote for fucking Democrats, but even in the response to this meme I’ve got chucklefucks assuming they know what’s on my mind or what I’m arguing here.

    What do you assholes want from us, a pound of fucking flesh? You already have our fucking votes!

    AnonTwo,

    Really? I voted for Jill Stein, and none of the discussion on Reddit leading up to it was deterring me from doing that.

    Seeing the results of the 2016 election, which again ended in an insurrection, is specifically why I won't be voting third party for this one.

    SnotFlickerman,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I’m an old, I’d been aware of Trump for a long time. I wasn’t willing to risk him trying to become a dictator, the guy had been a suck-up to dictators long before his run in 2016.

    Being willing to critique the party for failing to match the wits of a fucking orange idiot didn’t set well with a lot of folks.

    The conversations weren’t changing my opinions either, they were just frustrating and eye-rolling, just as they are now.

    cogman, in A reminder to all you far left and far right nutjobs that think Joe Biden has done nothing significant in office

    Are people on the left saying this?

    The 2 things I’ve really not liked about biden is he

    1. Continued trump era boarder policies significantly harming refugees.
    2. Has doggedly supported israel in their current genocide campaign.

    Other wise his admin has ranged from pretty good to business as usual. 1000% better than trump, but also with some glaring problems.

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    Are people on the left saying this?

    A few. A small, but very loud group online. They're larger on the Fediverse than most places.

    GuyDudeman,
    @GuyDudeman@lemmy.world avatar

    They’re called “Blue MAGA”.

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    Usually, that's the accusation leveled towards "Vote Blue no matter who" types, not the far-left types who deny that Democrats have ever done anything that has improved anyone's life.

    jackalope,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    No, and I don't know where I suggested they would be?

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    it’s in the meme

    GuyDudeman,
    @GuyDudeman@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh, I meant the people saying all the stuff that SpongeBob is showing Patrick.

    Blue MAGA are vociferous that Biden is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

    somethingsnappy,

    That’s… not a thing. I can walk outside and find a MAGA, I would have to troll online depths to find anyone that thinks Biden is great.

    GuyDudeman,
    @GuyDudeman@lemmy.world avatar

    You haven’t been on reddit’s politics subreddit, or on BlueSky enough then.

    somethingsnappy,

    Correct. Why would I go to either place?

    protist,

    I have never, ever come across this person, but I will totally vote blue no matter who when the opposition is today’s average Republican

    NoIWontPickaName,

    And that’s why they’ll never change

    protist,

    I vote in the primaries too

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    democrats went to court to defend their right to ignore primary voters.

    EndlessApollo,

    I can’t find anything about this, what are you referring to?

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar
    protist,

    The DNC completely restructured their convention process after this happened. Sanders and his supporters fought hard for this change, at least try to pay attention:

    Adoption of superdelegate reform (2018)

    On August 25, 2018, the DNC approved a plan to reduce the influence of superdelegates by barring them from voting on the first ballot at the Democratic National Convention, allowing them to vote only in a contested convention (i.e., if a Democratic National Convention did not choose the nominee on the first ballot, because no candidate received an absolute majority (more than 50%) of the pledged delegates elected from the outcome of primaries and caucuses). This does not preclude superdelegates from publicly endorsing a candidate of their choosing before the convention.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    at least try to pay attention

    don’t condescend to me