@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

I find it mildly infuriating that people still buy on Amazon 😅


This does not affect you at all. Let others be.


While I will exhaust all local alternatives first, Amazon is my pinch hitter when I can’t find The Thing anyplace else.

@tallwookie@lemmy.world avatar

why? it’s super convenient. I do all of my grocery shopping via Amazon Fresh. cheaper than a brick & mortar store


Convenience and cost, means amazon isn’t going anywhere. You can spend more time, and more money avoiding them if you want, but don’t be upset others aren’t willing.

SuiXi3D avatar

Fine, then I’ll be upset at people continuing to support a company that systematically abuses its workforce.

QHC avatar

Are you referring to the concept of capitalism?

DessertStorms avatar

Fuck Amazon, but - show me one that doesn't?

BraveSirZaphod avatar

I'd love to see the list of companies that produced all the various products in your house.

@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

Nothing’s perfect. But that doesn’t mean we should accept the worse.


Amazon is hardly the worst, just the biggest

BraveSirZaphod avatar

But of course, and I'm not saying that. But I do think it's perhaps a little bold to actively criticize a stranger for having the audacity to do business with Amazon as if they aren't, for instance, using AWS-backed websites literally every day.

I'm not saying Amazon is good, but rather that hypocritically trying to call out people for failing purity tests that you yourself almost certainly don't pass isn't a particularly productive or positive use of one's time.

zloubida, (edited )
@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

That’s exactly why climate change is going to kill us all.

Edit : you can downvote me, but if you systematically go for the easiest and cheapest solution, and can do otherwise (and generally, you do), you’re a big part of the problem.

@tallwookie@lemmy.world avatar

not everyone has the ability to drive 50+ miles to get to the le creuset outlet store

DessertStorms avatar

No, climate change is going to kill us because we live in a system where many people don't have a choice, and you blaming those with no choice instead of those who are taking the choice away and benefitting from it too, is not productive.


On Kbin, we see the # of upvotes and # of downvote separately, is that not the case here?

Also, the goal should maybe be turning the systematically easiest and cheapest solution into one that's also green. Definitely some steps to get there though


Plus, even when you do find what you’re looking for elsewhere, are Walmart, Target, and Home Depot really so benevolent? The odds of me finding what I need from a small locally owned business (at least in my area) are pretty slim.


Then I decide I want to try and support a small business. So, I find a website for one that looks legit enough. So far so good. Find the product. Yep! Go to check out… $10+ delivery fee. I know that’s not their fault. I do. But I’m not spending $20 on a $10 item that’s just not reasonable. Sometimes it’s fine to eat that cost if it’s like a cart full of stuff with just the one fee but for a bunch of individual things that I can’t get locally it doesn’t work.


I know that feeling all too well. The small local grocery store is, at minimum, 2 to 3 times more expensive than Walmart, or even the Dollar General a block away. The local hardware stores aren’t much better.

@sqw@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

the big boxes can operate at a loss until they choke out the local guys. after that they have a monopoly and can do whatever they want.


This is also my experience. Recent example, I can buy a 1.9L container of mayonnaise for $8.99 at Costco to make homemade potato salad for my grandmother’s 95th birthday party. But I forgot to prepare until the last minute and realized I had no mayo, and so I went to the local place who charged $7.99 for 443mL of mayonnaise from the same brand.

Amazon sells 3.78L of mayonnaise (dear God who needs that much mayo?) for $18.70, making them not quite as competitive as Costco in terms of price per mL, but pretty damn close, and moreover still way better than the local place.


Mayo for the whole year, if it doesnt expire before you use it up

  • Turkey sandwiches with mayo!
  • Mayo Surprise
  • Boston Cremayo donuts
  • Turkey sandwiches with mayo
  • Fruit salad
  • Turkey sandwiches, with mayo
  • Mayo sundaes for the kids
  • Mayo Mondays
  • Turkey sandwiches with mayo
  • Mayo lattes
  • Mayo sandwiches, with turkey
  • Ham and mayo on whole wheat
  • Apples and mayo oatmeal
  • Turkey sandwiches with mayo

Increasingly I can’t be confident what the quality level of products will be at those places. Amazon has huge counterfeit item and poor quality item problems that they don’t care to fix. I know Target will have reasonable quality, I know if I buy a brand name product l, I’m getting that product. I know if I buy Walmart brand, the quality is lower, but not pure garbage. I currently get none of those guarantees on Amazon, even Amazon basics aren’t safe from these problems.


Definitely had issues with quality and/or damage, haven’t gotten a true counterfeit yet to my knowledge, but I can at least partially attribute that to the fact that I almost never buy things that aren’t shipped/sold by either Amazon or the manufacturer.

When I shop I usually search for something on Amazon, check if the manufacturer has a website & it is comparably priced, check if the local stores (Target, etc.) stock it at a fair price, and if all else fails I buy through Amazon (after checking CamelCamelCamel to verify I’m getting a good deal).


To my knowledge the worst offers for counterfeits are tech items like cables, chargers, and drives. I’ve also learned some designer board games are commonly counterfeits. Amazon comingles stock so it doesn’t matter who you buy from, if someone puts counterfeit product X into the system you have a chance to get it.

XTornado, (edited )

Although I agree that might happen I think they have improved on it and at the end except for time lost that you cannot recover, the customer support is so good that you always get your money back or s replacement without issues.

Sarsaparilla avatar

If you're buying a branded product and it is shipped by the official brand store on Amazon, then you can be assured it is not counterfeit. If you buy a branded product that is shipped by Amazon it could be co-mingled with counterfeit stock.


It’s easy 🤷‍♂️


Why tho. Their shipping is amazing. And they have pretty much anything you could want.


Yeah, and warehouse workers piss into bottles and cannot unionize.


As an ex-warehouse employee, I will go out of my way of I have to get something just to not buy something online. The conditions of most warehouses I’ve seen, especially in this heat, should be illegal.

Sarsaparilla avatar

SDA is the union that represents Amazon workers in Australia.


No one’s forcing them to work there 🤷‍♂️. Start your own amazon.


Their social situation probably does. If you are a good for nothing, or they won’t hire you anywhere else, what would you rather? Being homeless or working for Amazon?


So it’s amazons fault for giving “good for nothings” a place to work? Sounds like they are helping the situation

Sarsaparilla avatar

Well my social situation means I have to take a bargain where it becomes available to me. Not just hypothetically, I've actually been homeless in the past so I don't want to end up there again because I was spending more than I need to of my meager income in some desperate attempt to support people who own brick and mortar businesses. That's a lot more than I've ever had.


yeah, minimum wage worker, just beat one the biggest companies of human history


People said the same thing about Walmart but the great Jeff bezos worked hard and did it.


People here are saying they want to pay Amazon’s competitors, and your argument is that they shouldn’t do that because the workers should be starting their own Amazon competitors…




As long as you weren’t buying empty bottles, that’s probably OK.

And I thought it was the drivers that have to piss in bottles.


They can’t do this in Europe, plus they actually have decent refund policies where normal stores shit on you after purchase. Getting groceries from them is also a great convenience for the same reasons. Part of the order got missing? Free refund or same day delivery. Plus, some local stores charge even more for products without delivering them to your door.

So at least in Europe, where they can unionize and can and do protest for their rights, I don’t see them as any worse than many other multinational chains that do the same. And if they had to stop operations in my country, there aren’t going to be a proportional number of stores that are going to start opening up. If the number of their employees does increase, it’s going to be for worse paying jobs.

zzz, (edited )

So at least in Europe, where they can unionize and can and do protest for their rights, I don’t see them as any worse than many other multinational chains that do the same.

Do you happen to know whether they actually are unionized in EU countries though, or just could? Genuine question, as I couldn’t tell you (as a German citizen)

Aside from that though, even if warehouse and delivery workers’ conditions were absolutely fine, their monopolistic tendencies are still somewhat of an issue. I’ll try not to turn this into a full essay, because this topic can get real philosophical REAL fast (we’re about 3 winded sentences away, I’d guesstimate).

But: AWS aka Amazon’s cloud business prints SO incredibly much money that they can perhaps unfairly undercut a grocery competitor like Kroger’s, Aldi, and whatnot are their names, that they can start to have a really, really good advantage quite quickly (as hinted to by OP’s order above: not plastics, not electronics, not household goods – food). In case any reader isn’t aware, grocery chains’ margins are absurdly, comically low.

The firm policies/microeconomics philosophy comes in here: how much cross-subsidizing should an undertaking actually be allowed to do? In other words, when is a company expanding too much – even though expansion is something that you could argue to be a core, if not the integral part of what defines a business? Europeans will perhaps see this a bit more strictly, whereas Americans might be inclined to answer close to unlimited here, but keep in mind, this can lead to Mega-everything-corp faster than you realize or like.

I didn’t make all of this up on the spot just now, BTW (some first further “readings”). This has been a somewhat well known issue for some years now, and people knew there could be a day coming where we as a (global) society have to ask ourselves: How many areas can a company dominate in before it becomes too dangerous?



Here’s some more info about unions in Europe.

Amazon may be monopolistic, but I have access to more products through from different brand names than I do through the rest of the local multinational chains. I see your point, but it’s also pretty hard to address without favoring other potential mega-corporations nowadays. The core problem is that there is one country that can realistic regulate it, and it is profit driven. Individually, each country can try to compete by subsidizing the competition in the areas those companies succeed in, by say putting decent refund and customer care into the law, subsidizing insurance to that extent, and making distribution networks accessible to small business. Once those standards are in place, it becomes easier to prosecute Amazon for anti-competitive monopolistic practices if they don’t stick to them. The problem is, each country usually has their own interests that don’t care for that either, and it wouldn’t be international.

Amazon should be divided into different businesses, but if US telecoms have proved anything, it’s that they usually end up working themselves back into the same group. But I see that as a separate more overarching issue than the rights of the workers it employs and the quality of their employment in their distribution warehouses.


Amazon may be monopolistic, but I have access to more products through from different brand names than I do through the rest of the local multinational chains.

That’s the core issue, I think.

Amazon might be the first major case of monopolistic tendencies where the firm’s behavior hasn’t been obviously disadvantageous (or obvious it will be in the not so distant future) to the consumers from the getgo. So you’d effectively be regulating and banning towards a worse consumer experience, as of now…


A good analogue might be the taxi industry, which has fostered an industry accustomed to misleading its clients through a number of means because of an outdated means of charging for fares. In some countries, they require special licenses, and they’ve forced restrictions on companies like Uber and who can work for them. It’s a case of new industries versus the old ones, and once Uber made it through, they also paved the way for their alternatives.

It’s sort of the same with Amazon and e-commerce, except Amazon has much more cash flow available due to the reasons you’ve discussed. Traditional multinational chains say they are threatened, but maybe they should be and should consider innovating and letting the consumer experience they should expect be put into law.


And you will have no recourse wheb the product you buy is (a) not what you thought you were getting, (b) going to break in a month or two or © set your house on fire if you leave it plugged in.


If you know exactly what you’re looking for and you know the seller, Amazon can be alright. I just bought an album CD there from MusicMagpie who’s set up shop on Amazon.

But if what you want is vague, be prepared to be bombarded with a bunch of Chinese sellers with weird brand names going through shittier couriers than Amazon themselves. It’s getting worse than AliExpress at this point.


You mean you don’t want the Zhrmgdtech USB C Charger Cable 2M 2Pack Type C Charger Fast Charging 3A Lead Nylon Braided for Samsung Galaxy S21 S20 S10 S9 S8 A12 A20e A21s A40 A51 A70,Huawei P30 P20 P40,Google Pixel,Xiaomi,Sony Xperia,Switch?



It’s a catch 22 because if you already know the seller but are opting for their Amazon vendor e-commerce channel you’re undercutting their business by taking Amazon’s promo discount on shipping today and forcing the seller to make up the difference in vendor fees. Then when your favorite reasonable merchants that balance price and quality get squeezed out of business by cheap knockoffs competing on the same platform in 1-5 years you’ll wonder why you can’t find quality products of that type anymore except from niche boutique merchants who have to charge even more to ship quality to your door than they used to.


Really cuz I have returned tons of stuff without even being questioned. Amazon doesn’t make most the products they sell?

My house isn’t on fire.


Oh thabks for clarifying I guess since the problem hasn’t happened to you in particular its not actually a problem. /s


I’ve returned so much stuff to Amazon without query, just a refund. I’d be surprised if you got any pushback as the process is 100% automated.


Not exactly true for Australian consumer laws. The retailer has to resolve a and b. C manufacturers and sellers need to adhere to standards but Amazon would be liable for selling dangerous products. Also get insurance.


Tyranny of convenience 😬


It’s also so much more expensive to buy from small, local businesses. Not everyone can afford to do that, no matter how much they hate buying from Amazon or Walmart.


I can order from amazon, or spend an hour in the car to go to a store and pay a higher price.

I'm buying from amazon.


Preach lol


Genuine question, what better alternative is there? I put a lot of effort into buying from small businesses with good morals, but I have no idea how to do this for the things I would buy online. If I don’t buy from amazon, i’m buying from target, Walmart, or some other supermarket. I don’t see how those are better.


Dumb question incoming; do these companies not offer delivery via postal services or the like? Where are you located?


Many companies do, I always try to purchase from the source if possible. Unfortunately some only deliver via other retailers like amazon and Walmart.


The difference that there is at least some choice. The choices may all be bad, but still better than Amazon. They have no realy big competition. The fact that it is so hard not to order on Amazon is very concerning.


eBay is ok for a good portion of what Amazon sells, but it’s not a perfect replacement. It’s not all auctions now. There are lots of things you purchase outright and they ship very quickly. Watch out for people who resell Amazon items at a mark up though. It too is not all that much better than Walmart, Amazon, etc, but at least you keep anyone from dominating.

Otherwise, sometimes there are small sellers you can find for niche products.

@dan@upvote.au avatar

eBay is ok for a good portion of what Amazon sells

How is eBay better than Amazon though?


colorful logo


It too is not all that much better than Walmart, Amazon, etc, but at least you keep anyone from dominating.


We’ve shifted the grocery past of our shopping to Thrive Market.


Damn. Someone should open a store in your area. They would make a killing.


It’s been a last resort shop for me for the last year or so

If a place can’t get me something in time, isn’t available, or ultra expensive, I’ll get it at Amazon


I’m in the process of manually transferring my wishlists for ebooks and physical books to Kobo and B&N atm. Then I’ll be transferring my other wishlists to Notebook.

After all that I’ll just use Amazon like a search engine.


Easy to find stuff


What other option is there, Aliexpress?

@bossito@lemmy.world avatar

Assuming the person lives in a normal town or village, you always have plenty of options. Groceries by post is totally absurd.


I would believe amazon ships fresh food via whole foods. If you live by a whole foods, its almost guaranteed that there is an alternative nearby.


They’re not shipping groceries from an Amazon warehouse lol. It’s usually just whole foods. Basically the same as doing a doordash or Instacart etc. It actually used to be pretty sweet because if you had prime they didn’t add the delivery fee so it would save me a trip. Sadly, they got rid of the free delivery. I believe there is or was a class action about them charging the delivery fee now


Not if you’re being green by not owning a car.

smigao, (edited )

Dude I live in a village - this is redic


It is faster to have 20 slaves in 20 different parts of the warehouse stuff 20 different envelopes than it is to have 1 single slave go to 20 different locations in a warehouse and stuff a box.

Their obligation is just to get the product from their facilities to your door. They don’t give a shit HOW it gets there.

Sarsaparilla avatar

I mean, if it were 20 different items I could probably put it down to that but there were six packets of each of the flavours and types. You'd think all the Alfredo's could go in one package, for example, not each in their own padded envelope. Does pasta even need padding? It was just ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a disgruntled worker engaged in a bit of malicious compliance!


I used to work in a shipping depot that delivered to Amazon, among others.

And whenever a shipment went out to Amazon, we had to take packages of 20 items, like they’d be delivered to retailers, and rip them open to put each item into packaging carton individually, before it was even delivered into an Amazon warehouse.

In our case, it was parasols, so it could be different for smaller items or just items that are more likely to be ordered in bulk, but yeah, I imagine, Amazon just does not want to deal with the packaging in their warehouse, if possible.


It shouldn’t be on the individual consumers to avoid monopolies; we need antitrust enforcement; we need to break up Amazon.

@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

It shouldn’t be indeed, but unfortunately it is. We can’t just hide our personal responsibility behind the State when the State is deficient.


There are certain things I can’t get anywhere near me from anyone other than Amazon, and I live in a city of 6 million people. Sadly I need to use Amazon about once a month. Getting groceries from them is ridiculous though.


Nah you’re just bad at online shopping.


Nah, some shit would take weeks to get to me from the few other alternate vendors, and I;m not waiting that long.


I think you just proved their point lol.


Hey, if anyone else or any store can get me the things I need within the week I 100% go there. but no one else is stocking specific temperature controllers anywhere near me. I can’t get 3D printer resin anywhere that isn’t a 40 minute drive away. Specific wiring I need, AliExpress is the only other company with it. Amazon stocks a lot of niche things that no one else is carrying.


I wish RadioShack survived


Same. I also used to have a great store near me that carried random electronic parts, motors, hobby shit, bits of hardware. Any time I needed to fix something, or wanted to make a little device I could go there for supplies. RIP Active Surplus.


I really wish I had a store like that near me. I hate being in the middle of a project and having to wait 2+ days to finish it if I end up needing something. There’s a microcenter location that’s supposed to open near me within a few years, which will be nice


Aren’t there any online shopping alternatives to amazon? Are they really the only online vendor who is allowed to mail stuff to your 6 million people city?


Not ones that can get me the things I need within the month.


Our personal responsibility is to make the State not deficient though, not a boycott of amazon.com or whatever you’re suggesting. A boycott of even their digital and physical storefronts probably wouldn’t even change much, since Amazon makes most of their profit via AWS. Something like 33% of all internet traffic goes through AWS in some fashion, so boycotting that is even harder. The only real option I can see is to make the State regulate them in some manner because all the people in the world can’t fight a trillion dollar company themselves.


Why not both? I’m happy to avoid buying Amazon (do I really need to avoid walking to the store?) while advocating for crackdowns on them.


Unfortunately, organizing on the scale necessary to defeat Amazon is damn near impossible. I think doing so politically is our best bet.


It’s not just about the monopoly though. Their site is rife with counterfeits and is basically Wish now. Want a GE lightbulb? There’s a 50/50 chance you’re getting a counterfeit that isn’t UL tested so you don’t know it’s safe, and that’s if you can even find the product at all hidden between the random name generator company listings for random garbage that’s slightly similar to the search term you entered.


Don’t even get me started on phone chargers. Good fucking luck. The cheap knockoffs are such a fire hazard too I stg




That’s actually my go to a lot of the time now lol


Same. I use their chargers, cords, ear buds, and speakers and all have worked great with no issues.

@dan@upvote.au avatar

As with all electronics, just look for products with UL or ETL certification and you should be OK.


Thanks I’ll keep that in mind for the future


And if there was a competitor that sold only legit products without having to compete with AmazonBasics (who just steals designs and sells them for a cheaper price) or from JSOIY (who also steals designs, and yes, I made up that name), people would use them instead of Amazon.

A monopoly enables this behavior, since there are no other options.


Ok fair point.


Hate these bubble envelopes! They cannot go into paper recycling because of the plastic liner, and cannot go into plastic film recycling because of the paper wrapping. The two are glued inseparably together and can only go IN THE TRASH!

Sarsaparilla avatar

This is also what upset me. I can cut down cardboard boxes and put them in the recycling, but this shit is just rubbish! It's more packaging than the packaging of the groceries themselves! I tried to pull the bubble off the paper but it didn't work. They are a horrible design.

@dan@upvote.au avatar

They have something like “recycle me like a cardboard box” printed on them, and I’ve been putting the in my recycling :/ are they lying?

Sarsaparilla avatar

I just checked and these bags have no such thing written anywhere on them.

@dan@upvote.au avatar

I just got one today and it has this printed on it:


Sarsaparilla avatar

Yes. I got a package from Amazon US a week or so after this post and it had that written on it. I pulled it apart to investigate but the padding was not plastic bubbles like the ones in my OP photo. So it must be some sort of corn stuff that can be recycled, but unfortunately I've never had Australian Amazon packages in that recyclable padded packaging. We have a stiff cardboard bag that can be recycled but it's only single layer. My groceries did not even require padded packaging though!


I’ve seen padding made of something like cellulose foam, that the manufacturer claims dissolves harmlessly during the paper recycling process, and therefore they put the “recycle as cardboard” on the package. Those are rare though.


It honestly depends on your local municipality. Where I live they don’t take anything but straight up hard plastic that is cleaned, and clean cardboard, cleaned tin cans. Anything else they don’t process. And even then they’re probably throwing out the whole truck of recyclables cause one dingus didn’t clean out a can and it got tomato soup on everything else. Recycling is honestly a scam in America, especially once China stopped buying our waste years ago.


they did it out of spite, to get you to stop ordering groceries from the internet, lol

Sarsaparilla avatar

There was like 12 packet pastas @ 85 grams each, 12 cans of spaghetti and baked beans. A couple of other odds and ends. All piled on my front porch when I arrived home from work today. The postman must've been livid.


Kinda sorta...while it's a lot to take to the door, it knocks off most of the packages off our list in one stop. I'm more upset when people order cat litter.

Sarsaparilla avatar

I put the packages in this box to bring them in, so I can imagine it would've been pretty frustrating going back and forth to the truck with handfuls of packages. I sure hope he forgives me. lol.
But anyway, why cat litter? Because it's heavy, or spills? I'm in Australia so online cat litter offerings are not a cost effective option, but I'll keep your protest in mind for the future.


Cat litter weighs a ton and must always be brought to the door. Really, anything heavy and bulky is just a pain. I'd rather take the 20+ little parcels to the door.

Sarsaparilla avatar

Oh no! I don't drive, so heavy and bulky is why I need most things delivered. 😅


Are you a kind little old lady that makes Christmas cookies as a tip every year? I don't mind doing it in that case. Everyone else can stub their toe on a coffee table every day for the rest of their lives as far as I'm concerned.

Sarsaparilla avatar

❤️ Last year I gave the postie a six pack of beer, the year before I gave him a box of Favourites (popular box of mixed chocolates). The postie is delivering rain, hail, or shine. He's usually already dropped off my delivery while I'm still in bed! It's a tough job and they don't get enough praise.


I personally don't like beer, but you're ok...

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