xor,

the strawman is “vote blue no matter who”

no, it’s vote blue whenever “red” is a literal dictator, who promises to be a dictator when elected, who tried a coup once already, who leads a fascist gop splinter group…
vote any fucking color against that shit, not no matter who.
there’s bad, and there’s barely distinguishable from hitler bad…
stop lying

krolden,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

no u

xor,

i haven’t seen a single “vote blue no matter who” since hillary…
yet i keep seeing it over and over again on lemmy, as an intentional misrepresentation of people who just want to stop drumpf…
well, mostly from hexbeer

ConsciousLochNess,

Love my Hexbears heart-sickle 💋

MonkderZweite,

Is this from a Ghibly movie?

Aikawa,

No, it’s from Taiyou no Yuusha Fighbird, a mecha anime from the 90s.

keepcarrot,

In order to counter the Trump bot accusations going on this thread:

The Trump appointed Supreme Justices are conservative stooges that are clearly just trying to ram through as much conservative stuff into the justice system as they can. The cagey abortion rights the US enjoyed (though sometimes not in practicality) were abolished, which is bad. There were in fact a lot of posts about this on hexbear at the time it was happening. You can now search this if you so desire.

Trump escalated sanctions against Cuba. This comes up from time to time, but he’s obviously not in a position to directly affect this at this precise moment, though the cudgel of “swing state” Florida Cubans is used to avoid any de-escalation.

Trump-supporting state legislatures are escalating attacks against trans people, both as a practical threat (bigots can attack trans people under the assumption that their state’s law enforcement won’t do anything about it) and as a legal escalation to remove any federal protections for trans people. This is also bad. Trump is also partly running on this. This comes up frequently on hexbear.

Trump didn’t succeed in the wall (which itself has had varied response amongst his supporters), but he did increase funding for ICE, expanded detention camps etc. This comes up when it’s in the news, but Trump specific policies don’t tend to be news regarding this right now for some reason.

Trump’s tax cuts for certain sectors and the ultra-wealthy. idk why you’d think hexbear would support this?

and so on

I’m not sure why I’m doing this. I’m not sure why people are surprised that a news aggregation and commentary site tends to talk about things that are currently happening as opposed to things that happened three years ago.

ebenixo,

Correct. Fake progressives who are in effect right wingers because they vote as a block continually for war and Wal street over working class people. They’re experts at gas lighting as well.

n3m37h, (edited )

Anarchy and Communism are not the fucking same, what a retarded meme

To anyone offended, Go watch “The Ringer

PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS,
@PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net avatar

Stay classy with the slurs friendo

n3m37h,

When the fuck did a word to describe a state of someone’s mental capacity or therefore lack of become a fucking slur? Pure humbug

PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS,
@PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net avatar

Why are you talking like Ebenezer Scrooge

n3m37h,

I’m bringing back slurs from the 1800’s

yokhai,

Let’s not bring back any slurs, even if you’re poorly attempting to recreate a joke from Clerks 2.

n3m37h,

That was a joke in Clerks 2? Shit son, I gotta rewatch all 3 meow

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Good luck teaching that difference to the typical 'murican

SmokinStalin,
@SmokinStalin@hexbear.net avatar

Let’s get to work sweat

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

There is still overlap in the societal aspects, just not the governmental aspects. Mostly because anarchy has no government. That’s the point. People can still choose to work together and basically create a communist society, without any enforcement from a government. Unlikely, but it’s not impossible.

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

They have the same basic endgoal. Also stop using the r word.

n3m37h,

It’s a word describing a lack of mental capacity, get over it ya. You views are pure humbug

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

Hey did you notice the “autism” in my name? Maybe I have more perspective to speak on what words are and aren’t slurs against my group than you do fuckass.

n3m37h,

8m autistic too, what’s your fucking point?

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

Language evolves. “Mental removedation” is not longer recognized as as medical term, its use in modern times is generally regarded as a slur by the disability community and is treated as such in pretty much all communities that actively try to include neurodiverse people are oppose ableism.

So to answer the question of “ince wshen”. The answer is “for at least a couple decades now”. I was actually hit by my friend with a severely disabled brother for using it back in like 2006.

I am active in the disability rights movement and pretty much all of us that are agree the word is a slur and there is no excuse to be using it. Its not a “word for mental capacity” anymore and hasn’t been in a long time. Plus, insinuating that mental disability is a BAD thing is ableist on its face.

n3m37h,

Jesus fuck, people need to grow a spine. There are much more pressing matters to cry about. Half the fucking planet is on fire but no, let’s cry about a word.

I grew up on the obese side, was made fun of for it my entire childhood. Do I get offended when I am called fat? No I laugh it off, because it’s true. At some point it’s better to not be offended all day

AcidSmiley,

I have internalized my own abuse to the point where i sound like a reactionary redditor and so should you

n3m37h,

No, I realized they are only words and when you make fun of the thing they are making fun of you for, that thing stops being fun. It’s called psychology

nekahat,

I disagree. Not everyone has to be like you and people don’t necessarily have to put up with harassment just because you would be ok with it yourself. I was also a fat kid and was made fun of. Do you think this would give me a free pass to publicly mock fat people, targeted or not? Also why would I be motivated to do so knowing it could possibly hurt someone?

n3m37h,

And I disagree with you. You think Internet peeps are going to change my speech? I don’t make fun of people because I know how it feels. I was making fun of a meme for being wholly incorrect. The only person who should take offence to my comment is the dummy who made the meme

And now you’re pointing out that me letting someone know their work is incorrect as harassment? Seriously?

Seems like everyone in this thread is making a mountain out of a damn mole hill

n3m37h,

I wasn’t harassing anyone. I called the fucking meme retarded. If your offended by the word, use a word blocker. I’m not censoring myself because you want to be offended. I am offended that people take offence to words. Your offense is what gives the word power. Humbug used to be a slur, guess what it isn’t anymore because ITS A FUCKING WORD.

aaaaaaadjsf,
@aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net avatar

It’s pretty clear the user autism dragon has a spine, that’s why they’re telling you to back off instead of accepting you using a term they find hurtful

Gelamzer,

being spineless is when stand up for yourself galaxy-brain

n3m37h,

That isn’t standing up for one’s self, that is being a Karen. If you want the internet censored use a word blocker yourself. Till then every last one of y’all can fuck off

n3m37h,

You call being a full Karen having a spine? Lmfao

ShimmeringKoi,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Just stop being a weird hostile fuck when someone takes away your comfort slur shrug-outta-hecks

n3m37h,

Not a comfort, just how I talk. I grew up with retard meaning to be mentally slow or a stupid action. The offence y’all are taking is fucking retarded

take_five_seconds,
@take_five_seconds@hexbear.net avatar

multiple things can matter at once

UlyssesT,

Caring a whole lot about not caring and making sure no one cares too much is the definition of maturity for “nothing offends me” reddit-logo types.

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

We can can care about more than one thing at a time lol. Do you also think black people should just “get over” the n word because global warming exists? Or gay people with the f slur? Do you think that women should stop complaining about sexual harassment in the workplace because global warming exists? Those are often “just words” after all. I care deeply about global warming and want to do things about it, probably more than you do, but that doesn’t mean I have to be ok with words meant to insult and attack me and people like me.

Idk if this rhetoric will work with you because you probably do think those things, at least about the slurs.

n3m37h,

This wasn’t about you till you made it about you, you were not the target of a slur. Now fuck off as we would prolly never get along and arguing about something stupid is pointless.

UlyssesT, (edited )

You’re arguing with a militant apathy enthusiast that wants to say edgy South Park tier shit and get no pushback from it, because they’re allowed to be offended at others getting offended and that’s the only offense allowed according to “nothing offends me” reddit-logo types.

n3m37h,

Think y’all got me figured out eh? I just think getting offended by words is pointless. Esp when shit isn’t directed towards you…

UlyssesT,

people need to grow a spine

You first.

Stop being a crybully because your edgy slurs aren’t welcome here.

At some point it’s better to not be offended all day

Except you are right in that post because you’re not getting praised for your stale edgy slurs. Do you have any fucking self awareness at all, you reddit-logo brained crybully?

n3m37h,

I’m not the one crying over a word that was not directed at anyone in particular. The meme is technically wrong and is stupid

That’s part of my autism I don’t have filters.

Thanks for being the bully in this transaction

ElChapoDeChapo,
@ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net avatar
n3m37h,

I sure hope a 3 year old drew that and not you. I’d be embarrassed to post such an idiotic thing

UlyssesT,

You just scratched a liberal! Comrade Amogus is on the case! sus-soviet

maniacal_gaff,

Well to be clear, the “joke” is that the blue hat doesn’t know the difference.

infuziSporg,
@infuziSporg@hexbear.net avatar

As an anarchist-communist, to me they’re pretty darn close.

Abolish capitalism, smash the State.

n3m37h,

That’s like calling all meat eaters cannibals

anachronist,

There is overlap especially when you don’t confuse communism as the broader framework with state communism or even worse soviet communism.

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

Have you read “On Authority” by Engels?

DivineChaos100,
@DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

I have, its a terrible “rebuttal” of anarchist criticism of marxism, conflating self-defence with authority.

anachronist,

And the fact that Engels wrote it proves that there were people in the movement even in those early days who disagreed.

ThereRisesARedStar,

That is the thing though, until you abolish class contradictions states are the most effective way of protecting the revolution and suppressing the bourgeoisie. So authority does equal self defense in a real, meaningful way.

DivineChaos100,
@DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

No, since states can get couped. The most effective way of protecting the revolution is gathering the masses which can happen without the state, indeed, it has happened multiple time throughout history.

ThereRisesARedStar,

The most effective way of protecting the revolution is gathering the masses which can happen without the state, indeed, it has happened multiple time throughout history.

Could you point to examples?

DivineChaos100,
@DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

Anarchists in civil war in spain (until some of them decided to fuck off), I would say the makhnovshchina defended itself pretty well with the scarce resources they had, greek anarchists with their decades old squats, bolivian grassroots movements who helped Evo Morales get in power in Bolivia, etc.

infuziSporg,
@infuziSporg@hexbear.net avatar

I have an idea of what a state is, but what’s a “soviet”? That’s not an English word.

What does “soviet” mean in Russian?

anachronist, (edited )

I know you’re being cute but “soviet” is indeed a word in English: dict.org/bin/Dict


<span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  Soviet
</span><span style="color:#323232;">      adj 1: of or relating to or characteristic of the former Soviet
</span><span style="color:#323232;">             Union or its people; "Soviet leaders"
</span><span style="color:#323232;">      n 1: an elected governmental council in a communist country
</span><span style="color:#323232;">           (especially one that is a member of the Union of Soviet
</span><span style="color:#323232;">           Socialist Republics)
</span>

And it means what I intended it to mean, the official state ideology of the USSR: en.wikipedia.org/…/Ideology_of_the_Communist_Part…

infuziSporg,
@infuziSporg@hexbear.net avatar

That sounds bland, I like the idea of council communism better.

How do you say “council communism” in Russian?

ebenixo,

The meme isn’t stating that they are.

BigNote,

Yeah, it’s so strange that people confuse you with a Kremlin bot when you repeatedly spew the same fucking bullshit talking points as the bots themselves.

Flaps,

Bruh Idk how you got convinced there are so many bots around. Like, sure, if you write off everything that differs from the nato line of thought as bots, then sure, believe what you want. But ti me that’s just absurd. I assume that people I interact with are actual humans, even if their opinions suck ass. But to be so far up your own ass, as to not even acknowledge that people can think other things than you without them being some evil, heinous bot is just fuckin stupid

LeateWonceslace,

Bot Detected.

JamesConeZone,
@JamesConeZone@hexbear.net avatar
BigNote,

I didn’t get “convinced there are so many bots around,” you absolute idiot. My point was only that if and when idiots like you use talking points that are identical to those coming out of Putin’s Kremlin, people can be forgiven for mistaking you for a bot.

What part about this do you not understand? How can I dumb it down enough for you?

Flaps,

You sound mad bot boy

ReakDuck, (edited )

Meanwhile, there are literally bots that easily replace humans.

Its weird that someones life is only dedicated to be negative about one thing. And especially because Russia and China love to manipulate and do everything to convince people that what they are doing is great, its not unlikely they are bots. Especially with LLM its very easy to create a realistic bot.

Thinking that they are bots is more likely than not because of these facts.

Well, I guess I shall stop my propaganda and just accept that there are literal communities that are hardcore china or russia fans because of the leftism.

There are reasons why Elon Musk doesn’t feel alone while having no gf. /j

ElChapoDeChapo,
@ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net avatar
Neopergoss,

Everyone is a bot everywhere. There are no people anymore!

NailBunny, (edited )

You know, I’ve read exactly one comment from you, ReakDuck, and It would be a bit silly if I assumed from this single comment that your entire life to this point has been paranoid whingeing about Russian bots.

“Russia and China love to manipulate and do everything to convince people that what they are doing is great”

If it’s a matter of propaganda, I hope you understand that America is perfectly capable of churning out plenty of absolute pig shit on its own. All large nations with their own media ecosystems employ propaganda as a means of placation, diversion, and general control. Do you worry about the people who agree with you being bots, too? Aren’t your online peers just as likely to be bots? Do you think your particular party or associates don’t employ the same trickery as everyone else? How have they stayed competitive?

Furthermore, what proof would you require to know I’m not a bot? No amount of personal information is beyond manufacturing. I could even send you a social security number and valid identification and you could say I stole it. Do you see where I’m going with this? That rationale of yours is a catch-all justification of complete dismissal. One can protect themselves from any dissenting opinions if they can convince themselves that the other person writing to them is a bot. There’s nothing they can say or do to prove such an assertion wrong short of showing up at your house and shitting on your lawn.

I believe you should challenge the rhetoric being presented to you instead of protecting your own through frivolous dismissals, but I don’t know why I’ve wasted all my time writing this response to a lib bot.

ReakDuck,

I just read a few lines and just instantly rethought everything. America, China and Russia fans are bots to spread propaganda /j

No you are absolute right, I was just way too used to reddit. Especially because there were many weird bots with bad patterns for Karma farming.

NailBunny, (edited )

I’m pleasantly surprised by your response, honestly. I understand the temptation to make such arguments, and I’d be lying if I told you that astroturfing and shit like that didn’t happen, but hard leftists like us are small in number in American spaces and that level of bullshittery generally requires some alignment with corporate interests to find the resources. We’re just a bunch of regular people from many different corners who are really passionate about our opinions for a variety of reasons. Hope I wasn’t too aggro with my comment, and hope the rest of your day is a nice one

Flaps,

I’m happy to see you’ve accepted we’re not bots or something, but

that there are literal communities that are hardcore china or russia fans because of the leftism.

Is just a wrong assumption. The point is to never stop the critique. It’s just that we a) accept the nuance in and the reality of the Ukrainian conflict rather than repeat the lines NATO feeds the west through established media (doesn’t mean we’re fans of putin, but since the start of the conflict any nuance has been labeled as ‘Russia apologia’. Russia is a neoliberal, capitalist state and nowhere does this align with my ideals, doesn’t mean ima start referring to Russian people as ‘orcs’). And b) yeah while china absolutely has its shortcomings (like the disparity between rural and urban China), it is doing some pretty cool stuff too, you should read up about it. This all is of course combined with the knowledge that the west is the primary purpetrator of imperialism, death, desease, hunger, poverty and instability in the global south, while not even being able to channel the stolen wealth to its citizens in order to make some billionairs even richer.

ReakDuck,

I see people less being hardcore and instead just see them here as people with different opinions. (some are hardcore leftist, but on the other hand reddit you see often hardcore american fans or karens)

You don’t know my hate about america, I definetly hate this system and especially as a German guy who just loves free Open Source Software hate the idea that my school forces pupils to use their bad and unprofessional products compared to free open source ones because they are partners and MC wants money hard as fuck.

But whats tempting me is when I hear how gay people were seen as an illness. Many things that I heard just heard about camps where people with wrong religions are put there which aligns to the German Hitlers conzentration camps. Some things are definetly nice and a good approach from China but youtube debunkers show many opposite truths and gaslights. Democracy like EU is trying to and forces everyone to have the same rights for every human, is what is missing in China. I guess each country can decide by themselves if they are left or right, its just about this ground rules that should not be broken because one president wants to become evil.

Flaps,

You don’t believe people have equal rights here in the west, do you?

ReakDuck,

Well, only in europe at least. But elswehre. Actually no

Flaps,

I absolutely do not agree that people in Europe have equal rights. You just need to look at how migrants or refugees are treated, and that’s just one example. Recent protests in France also didn’t start because they were treated so equally. Hell, the working class is losing rights left right and center as we speak.

sharedburdens,

kremlin vocaloid reporting in

spoilercommiku

BigNote,

Unfortunately I’m too old to know what that means.

What’s a “vocaloid”?

sharedburdens,

Vocaloid is voice synthesizer software. They’ve actually been around for a while, there’s a lot of artists who will sample them for vocals and mix that into original music.

BigNote,

OK, and your point is? I still don’t get it.

sharedburdens,

you seem pleasant

PZK,

If you really think that bots are this effective, then why don’t liberals create their own bots?

If you think they don’t work then what is your problem with them?

BigNote,

That’s not at all what I said though, is it?

All I said was that people can be forgiven for being confused when so many Russian apologists are echoing Kremlin talking points.

How are they supposed to know the difference between an apologist vs a Kremlin bot?

Please do tell?

PZK,

They can’t. I guess the game is over.

What are liberals supposed to do if they can’t just label something to dismiss it?

vegai,

Cynically mass influencing opinion is immoral. Using automated software to do that is doubly immoral.

The fact that Russians are doing this is not controversial, it is widely documented. Whether they’re doing it here is perhaps questionable, but then again, Lemmy and its APIs are free to use so why wouldn’t they.

RoundSparrow,

When it comes to media attraction, what they call themselves (labels) don’t really matter that much. It’s the praise of strong men, authority, that crosses all mythological media systems. Be it bowing down to a burning bush story, Fox News, or Kremlin.

ShimmeringKoi,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Yes, any ideology that relies on a theory of great men, a great man theory, is suspect in it’s analysis.

kristina,

its really wild that the russians are programming transgender communist robots, maybe they need some critical support now, maybe theyll make real catgirls next

oregoncom,
@oregoncom@hexbear.net avatar

Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot. They are a bot because they disagree with me. I am very enlightened and rational.

pigpoop

SovietyWoomy,

Sounds like something a CIA bot would say thinkin-lenin

BigNote,

K

AntiOutsideAktion,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

How are you supposed to tell the difference?

honore_de_ishida,

It’s a hard knock life for we bots

Noughmad,

Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Trump isn’t in power, no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion and knew exactly how it would play out. Trying to claim they are defending their right to sovereignty, which is bullshit.

Noughmad,

no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion

That has to be the shortest contradiction.

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Its not a contradiction, several politicians, Biden included, spoke of what would happen if the US threatened NATO expansion into Ukraine. Obama, McCain, Kerry, Nuland, and now Biden set the stage for Ukraine to get invaded. Claiming it was to protect democracy which is bullshit. If the US cared about democracy and sovereignty they wouldn’t have orchestrated a coup with the Pakistanian PM.

This war is 100% about decimating Ukraine so capitalists can go in and divide the spoils.

Ya_Boy_Skinny_Penis,

Sure buddy. NATO was responsible for countries wanting to join NATO to forestall Russian invasions.

NATO was also responsible for all of Russia’s other post-USSR invasions, I bet.

Life must be interesting when you don’t understand history or politics.

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Straight from the horses mouth

theconversation.com/ukraine-war-follows-decades-o…

Must be interesting when you are completely fucking clueless outside the official narrative.

Lightor,

I mean, you’d know lol, with an unbiased source like theconservative.com lol. The people who are defending Russia. And you’re just eating it up.

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

I’m betting you made a judgment based on what you thought the website was. The website was theCONVERSATION.com. But go ahead and stick to your echo chamber and stay ignorant

Lightor,

That’s a really round about way to show you’re defending the very things you said no one was lol.

Lightor,

No one is defending Russia or Putin? They sure as shit are trying to smoke screen it hard.

rollingstone.com/…/these-are-the-american-right-w…

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

The person I replied to was talking about leftists. The only one talking about right wingers is you

Lightor,

The comment was about defending Russia and Putin. You said no one was, you were wrong. Right wingers are the ones doing that, so I showed receipts, to prove you are wrong. Sorry reality upsets you.

Also you literally linked a source to theconservative.com, you can’t make this stuff up.

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

I linked to theCONVERSATION.com. Your echo chamber reactionary thinking has you seeing things that are not there.

So yes, you CAN just make things up

Lightor,

Lol ok bud, ignore everything said and focus on one small thing and yell about it. You’ve convinced me lol.

K1nsey6,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not one small thing, it’s lots of big things

Lightor,

Sure bud.

SigloPseudoMundo,

You forgot the genocide denial as well. I don’t understand why they worship Russia like the ussr is still around.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Anarchists didn’t like the fucking USSR either.

SmokinStalin,
@SmokinStalin@hexbear.net avatar

Oop im feeling it, gotta worship Russia now. stalin-smokin. Wanna hit?

Gelamzer,

Who are these "leftists"that criticize Biden but not Trump

g_g,
@g_g@hexbear.net avatar

are the pro-Trump leftists in the room with us right now?

Noughmad,
Gelamzer,

Pretty sure lemmygrad is not pro trump

Noughmad,

That’s what I thought too, but somehow there is a “600 page report on the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop” on their front page.

Like I said, they call themselves leftists, but everything there is only anti-Biden, anti-NATO and anti-Ukraine. Nothing about republicans pushing for child labor, for example, which should be the most important priority for a pro-workers group.

GarbageShoot,

Nothing about republicans pushing for child labor,

There are articles about this regularly on Hexbear and, I must assume, on Lemmygrad as well.

People like the Hunter story because it’s funny and there is genuine corruption going on, but I don’t think any of them think it’s actually important.

420LetPobedy,

Posts about the ongoing child labour in the US appear on hexbear and lemmygrad frequently…

Trump isn’t president, It’s not weird for leftists to criticise those in power more often, nor an offensive organisation responsible from bombing innocent working people or a banderite state for that matter

Noughmad,

nor an offensive organisation responsible from bombing innocent working people

Weird that you mention this. I assume you mean NATO, because there is another organization responsible for bombing innocent working people right now, as well as taking the working people of their own country and sending them to die. Why is criticism reserved only for the one that did not start the current war?

banderite state

Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?

Thordros,

Why is criticism reserved only for the one that did not start the current war?

Probably because none of us live in Russia, so criticizing them is a waste of time. Of course they suck, but there’s nothing we can do about it. Nobody in Russia is ever going to read our criticism.

We do, however, mostly live in NATO-aligned countries. We CAN affect change in our own countries. That is a productive conversation to have.

Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?

Nobody is claiming that. You’re having an argument with a guy you made up.

GarbageShoot,

Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?

I hate the Russian government for being cynical liberal mafiosos who use reactionary rhetoric similar to if Republicans were transposed there (“our enemies are exporting homosexuality to us to weaken us” etc). That is still substantially different from making your #1 national hero a Holocaust perpetrator, which Ukraine has done.

Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

Liberals arguing in bad faith and ignorance? Couldn’t happen.

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

“600 page report on the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop”

Idk about Lemmygrad, I can’t speak for them (I also couldnt find this post when I went to check, and I doubt its slipped off the first two pages in the five hours since you posted this?)

But on Hexbear we think the Hunter Biden story is funny and dont take it seriously. We post about it to mock it.

Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

Supporting Trump is when you show interest in (admittedly boring and inconsequential) ongoing news issues.

Biden is a right wing monster who literally wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that has caused over a generation of misery, horror, and suffering. Not going to get in to the other ones because we literally have several pinned posts on the matter and I’m sick of re-iterating them to ideological brick walls.

DivineChaos100,
@DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

Literally posted 3 articles yesterday criticising trump but go off.

CloutAtlas,

Posting about Trump or Putin being bad would be akin to making posts about ISIS being bad: it goes without saying.

Like 99% of people on this platform already agrees with you, it’s really not a contentious issue. There’s no significant MAGA or Russian nationalist instance federated. None of their supporters would see it, it would be a completely moot point.

GoodEye8,

While it should go as without saying I think it’s pretty hard to take it that way when the following statements get made a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts (like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government) but ultimately warped into something that can’t definitely be proven true or false. Thus whoever spreads those talking points wants to believe those statements as true, which begs the question of why to believe they’re true.

Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t think I could ever make you believe that we came to these conclusions based on an analysis of world history, economics, and the current geopolitical reality and didn’t need any help from Yuri at the FSB.

You literally don’t understand how we analyze geopolitics.

“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”

rosa-shining

GoodEye8,

Of course you can’t, because there’s nothing you can provide except your belief that it is the way you want to believe.

Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

That’s nice.

GoodEye8,

Feel free to provide proof.

ThereRisesARedStar,

a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts

So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?

This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.

(like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government)

Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.

GoodEye8,

So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?

As if to prove my point… I said they’re statements made around certain known fact, facts that don’t really prove the statement. Like the “coup”. Fact is that there was a discussion between Nuland and Pyatt, which proves US was in talks with the opposition. But the fact doesn’t shine a light on the extent of their talks, including if they were plotting a coup or how much Ukrainians listened to them. To claim it was a coup you have to believe it was one topic of the discussions and the Ukrainians listened.

This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.

I don’t have problem understanding that things are biased. It’s just odd how western narrative get criticism but Russian narrative is seemingly taken without question.

Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.

You just said the question is how factual things are, so factual proof that nazis were brought in? Because from the leak they were actually talking to keep ultranationalists like Tyahnybok out.

ThereRisesARedStar,

Fact is that there was a discussion between Nuland and Pyatt, which proves US was in talks with the opposition.

Talking about who should be in government and those people “coincidentally” being installed is plotting to install a puppet government.

But the fact doesn’t shine a light on the extent of their talks, including if they were plotting a coup or how much Ukrainians listened to them. To claim it was a coup you have to believe it was one topic of the discussions and the Ukrainians listened.

Or were forced to. The point is we know they were successful at installing their people and keeping others out, and “it was just a coincidence” seems improbable given how popular Klitsch was.

It’s just odd how western narrative get criticism but Russian narrative is seemingly taken without question.

The western narrative deserves criticism. And hexbear is very critical of the Russian narrative, just not the things that they say that are supported by evidence.

You just said the question is how factual things are, so factual proof that nazis were brought in? Because from the leak they were actually talking to keep ultranationalists like Tyahnybok out.

The thing is Tyahnybok was a nobody politically, they went with the more well known Yats as prime Minister. You’ll note that Yats is the leader of the “Fatherland” party

They also say about the defacto leader of the movement Klitsch and the other moderate democrats:

I guess… in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I’m just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together.

I want to ask the reader something, what is being said here? Does this come off as innocent?

No, exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it. And again the fact that this is out there right now, I’m still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych (garbled) that. In the meantime there’s a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now and I’m sure there’s a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But anyway we could land jelly side up on this one if we move fast. So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep… we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing. The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.

Because to me this reads as plotting to install certain leaders within Ukraines new government.

GoodEye8,

You’re literally proving my point. You’ve added nothing to factually prove the coup, you’re adding assumptions to make the fact fit the narrative. Also Yats is not the leader of the Fatherland party, he used to be there but moved to People’s front in 2014.

ThereRisesARedStar,

You’re literally proving my point. You’ve added nothing to factually prove the coup

I dont need to add more stuff. What they said makes it obvious they’re talking about a soft or hard coup. You’re being shown a red balloon and asking for more proof it’s a red balloon.

What would you accept as proof, if not the senior US officials there talking about who should be in government and about moving to make it happen?

Also Yats is not the leader of the Fatherland party, he used to be there but moved to People’s front in 2014.

Oh, cool, the people’s front! Let’s learn more about them:

The Ukrainian People’s Party (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Партія; Ukrains’ka Narodna Partiya) is a political party in Ukraine, registered on Old Year’s Day 1999 as the Ukrainian National Movement

Oh. Cool. A nationalist pseudo populist organization. Where have I seen those before?

GoodEye8,

Russian politicians were also talking how Russia should nuke Nevada test site, so I guess Russia has nuked America because the only thing required to make it true is someone talking about it.

The Ukrainian People’s Party (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Партія; Ukrains’ka Narodna Partiya) is a political party in Ukraine, registered on Old Year’s Day 1999 as the Ukrainian National Movement

For fuck sake, at the very least search for the right thing. not this, but this.

ThereRisesARedStar, (edited )

Russian politicians were also talking how Russia should nuke Nevada test site, so I guess Russia has nuked America because the only thing required to make it true is someone talking about it.

Did a nuke go off at the Nevada test site in a way that wasn’t connected to US nuclear testing? If so, it would be reasonable to assume the Russians who talked about doing it did it if it furthered their geopolitical objectives.

For fuck sake, at the very least search for the right thing. not this, but this.

Oh, sorry. But still, theyre described as a conservative nationalist party and split from the “Fatherland” party. Also the leader of Azov Battalion was on their military council. Hrmm.

GoodEye8,

it would be reasonable to assume the Russians who talked about doing it did it if it furthered their geopolitical objectives.

Now you’re word for word proving what I originally claimed. If something happened and another factual event happened, that may or may not be related, and you believe they’re related then it’s okay to make the assumption that asserts your belief.

But still, theyre described as a conservative nationalist party and split from the “Fatherland” party.

Conservative doesn’t mean neonazi and maybe they split to be less radical?

Also the leader of Azov Battalion was on their military council. Hrmm.

I’m tired of constantly correcting you so I’m just going say wrong

ThereRisesARedStar,

Now you’re word for word proving what I originally claimed. If something happened and another factual event happened, that may or may not be related, and you believe they’re related then it’s okay to make the assumption that asserts your belief.

Yes, it is extremely reasonable.

If John Smith talked about killing Jake Jones and was recorded, and then Jake Jones showed up killed as John Smith described he would be, then it would be reasonable to assume that John Smith killed Jake Jones. Jake Jones’ head could have just done that spontaneously, but it is unlikely.

Do you have an alternate explanation for them saying “we’re going to install the people we want and keep out the people we dont” and then that happening?

Conservative doesn’t mean neonazi and maybe they split to be less radical?

Okay but there are neonazis in the Wikipedia article you linked about them

Begin article quote

The military council is a special body of People’s Front. It develops proposals for strengthening of the defence system of Ukraine.

The council was created on 10 September 2014 together with the political and coordinating councils of the party. It was formed by the party congress which also approved the council’s composition. It included the Chief of Staff of the party and Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Oleksandr Turchynov, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, coordinator of the “Information Resistance” blog, Lt. Col. Dmytro Tymchuk, former acting Head of the Presidential Administration and co-founder of the revived National Guard Serhiy Pashynskiy and former secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, Euromaidan commandant and organizer of the Maidan self-defense units Andriy Parubiy.

The council is made up of leading commanders of the territorial defense battalions: Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion, Yuriy Bereza, commander of the Dnipro Battalion, Kostyantyn Mateichenko, commander of the Artemivsk battalion, Roman Pytski, commander of the Chernihiv battalion, Andriy Teteruk, commander of the Myrotvorets battalion, Yevhen Deydey, commander of the Kyiv-1 battalion, Mykola Shvalya, commander of the Zoloti Vorota battalion, Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion Serhiy Sydoryn, vice-battalion commander of the National Guard and Mykhailo Havryluk, a soldier of the Kyivska Rus battalion.

End article quote

I’m tired of constantly correcting you so I’m just going say wrong

Begin article quote

The council is made up of leading commanders of the territorial defense battalions: Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion, Yuriy Bereza, commander of the Dnipro Battalion, Kostyantyn Mateichenko, commander of the Artemivsk battalion, Roman Pytski, commander of the Chernihiv battalion, Andriy Teteruk, commander of the Myrotvorets battalion, Yevhen Deydey, commander of the Kyiv-1 battalion, Mykola Shvalya, commander of the Zoloti Vorota battalion, Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion Serhiy Sydoryn, vice-battalion commander of the National Guard and Mykhailo Havryluk, a soldier of the Kyivska Rus battalion.

GoodEye8,

Yes, it is extremely reasonable.

If John Smith talked about killing Jake Jones and was recorded, and then Jake Jones showed up killed as John Smith described he would be, then it would be reasonable to assume that John Smith killed Jake Jones. Jake Jones’ head could have just done that spontaneously, but it is unlikely.

It’s how 4chan and Reddit decided Sunil Tripathi was the Boston marathon bomber. A bombing happened, someone knew Sunil had gone missing, images kinda looked similar, people wanted to find a connection so they made whatever connection they could find. He wasn’t the bomber but people still started a witchhunt based on assumptions they thought were reasonable. So no, I don’t think blindly taking assumptions as factuals is extremely reasonable.

Do you have an alternate explanation for them saying “we’re going to install the people we want and keep out the people we dont” and then that happening?

Without any further information I’d say they’re just discussing ideas (in this case who should be in the government) to present to Yatseniuk with the goal of making sure Russia doesn’t sabotage the movement. Nothing about it implies planning a coup.

Okay but there are neonazis in the Wikipedia article you linked about them

I’m going to need more specifics than an information dump. Outside of the Azov being in the military council (which I admit was my mistake for not noticing, and I’ll get to why that’s not proof) and Andriy Parubiy (who I wouldn’t consider a Nazi because he been a target of that kind of disinformation campaign by pro-russian media) nobody else catches my eye.

As for the addition of Azov in that list. The council is not made up of territorial defense battalions, it’s made up of leaders of volunteer battalions. Azov was at that moment a volunteer battalion which is why they were included, along with the other leaders of the volunteer battalions. He wasn’t picked because he was neo-nazi, he was picked because he was leading one of the biggest volunteer battalions. The idea that the government is a neo-nazi government because the biggest political party in that government created a special body and that special body has one known neo-nazi is just bewildering. Look at how many hoops you have to jump through just to have some connection between neo-nazis and the 2014 Ukrainian parliament, and then tell me that is reasonable.

ThereRisesARedStar,

It’s how 4chan and Reddit decided Sunil Tripathi was the Boston marathon bomber. A bombing happened, someone knew Sunil had gone missing, images kinda looked similar, people wanted to find a connection so they made whatever connection they could find. He wasn’t the bomber but people still started a witchhunt based on assumptions they thought were reasonable. So no, I don’t think blindly taking assumptions as factuals is extremely reasonable.

Okay, are you saying that this is a case of mistaken identity? I dont get what you’re trying to claim.

I treat the assumption as fact within my internal worldview because it is the only explanation I can think of for what happened and it has strong supporting evidence. We have records of them plotting, so they probably carried out their plot as it seems that what happened mirrored what their plot wanted.

Again, I would love an alternative explanation for what they said they wanted and were doing lining up with what happened.

As for the addition of Azov in that list. The council is not made up of territorial defense battalions, it’s made up of leaders of volunteer battalions. Azov was at that moment a volunteer battalion which is why they were included, along with the other leaders of the volunteer battalions. He wasn’t picked because he was neo-nazi, he was picked because he was leading one of the biggest volunteer battalions. The idea that the government is a neo-nazi government because the biggest political party in that government created a special body and that special body has one known neo-nazi is just bewildering. Look at how many hoops you have to jump through just to have some connection between neo-nazis and the 2014 Ukrainian parliament, and then tell me that is reasonable.

Wait, did you not go over the list and look at the political history of everyone involved? It’s much more than one nazi.

Do your research and then take a second attempt at replying.

GoodEye8,

Okay, are you saying that this is a case of mistaken identity? I dont get what you’re trying to claim.

I’m saying they took two factual things and then reasoned themselves to believe those things are connected. Which is exactly what you’re doing here.

I treat the assumption as fact within my internal worldview because it is the only explanation I can think of for what happened and it has strong supporting evidence. We have records of them plotting, so they probably carried out their plot as it seems that what happened mirrored what their plot wanted.

You’ve taken two factual things and then assumed based on your beliefs that they must be connected. There’s no evidence of them actually plotting a coup. I even gave you an alternative that very much suits what the leaked discussion was about.

Wait, did you not go over the list and look at the political history of everyone involved? It’s much more than one nazi.

Do your research and then take a second attempt at replying.

I’m not here to do your work lazyass. You said there are more, find your own proof and be more specific. Wikipedia dumps are not proof.

ThereRisesARedStar,

I’m saying they took two factual things and then reasoned themselves to believe those things are connected. Which is exactly what you’re doing here.

Okay, yes. And it is reasonable. Do you have any other explanation for what happened?

Edit: lol lmao, this is your explanation

Without any further information I’d say they’re just discussing ideas (in this case who should be in the government) to present to Yatseniuk with the goal of making sure Russia doesn’t sabotage the movement. Nothing about it implies planning a coup.

That’s just straight up counterfactual to what they actually say lmao

End edit

You’ve taken two factual things and then assumed based on your beliefs that they must be connected. There’s no evidence of them actually plotting a coup. I even gave you an alternative that very much suits what the leaked discussion was about.

They’re literally talking about who should be in and out of government and moving to make it happen.

I’m not here to do your work lazyass. You said there are more, find your own proof and be more specific. Wikipedia dumps are not proof.

You’re literally the one being lazy.

I’m done, you’re more than entitled to your willfully ignorant, arrogant bullshit.

Noughmad, (edited )

Oh how I wish that was true. Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many people support Russia in this war, both offline and online, including here.

Maybe I’m wrong about hexbear, I certainly hope that I am, but on lemmygrad I saw long posts with many upvotes explaining how this war is a good thing and Putin is a hero that is fighting against the capitalists etc.

Edit: and now lemmygrad had Hunter’s laptop on the front page. Could they be any more obvious?

Edit2: lol, you almost had me believing that I was wrong and just too paranoid. Then in this very thread I got two people from hexbear telling me how NATO and Ukraine are evil, heavily upvoted. Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin. Thanks.

anachronist,

Hunter Biden’s laptop is big news though. Why would it not be on the front page?

Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

It’s not though? We got tired of riffing on that literally years ago.

CloutAtlas,

Right, but if you made a post about how Putin is a great leader or Republicans have better policies and child labour, homophobia and lower taxes on the rich are good on Hexbear you’re going to get shat on in the comments if not outright banned.

Criticizing NATO is more pressing because online discourse is extremely pro-NATO. Reddit, for example, loves NATO expansion and loved when Finland joined. None of the disdain for NATO is praise for Putin being a corrupt nationalist.

Also anything involving Hunter Biden is funny. He’s just an obscenely offbeat person. While the Trump children (except Tiffany and for now Barron) are just slimy sycophants trying to gain daddy’s approval while swindling money out of MAGA morons, Hunter is doing cocaine and sleeping with prostitutes. Its never really in our discourse for anti-Biden posts to criticize Hunter, he’s become a micro celebrity in his own right. If anything we literally like Hunter better than Joe

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin.

Its because we don’t have to convince y’all that Trump and Putin are bad because you already think that. We’d just be spitting into an echo chamber, preaching to the choir. There’s no point. To be clear we dunk on Trump all the time. We do not like him.

Why do you think that leftists have to say “but also btw Trump is also bad” every time we criticize Biden? That would make no sense.

infuziSporg,
@infuziSporg@hexbear.net avatar

We had a user who would uncritically support Russia and Operation Z. A “Z poster”, if you will. They were banned on several accounts and no one really missed them.

Some of us tepidly support the CPRF, which is largely controlled opposition. We recognize that counting since 2014, there’s a lot of propaganda, civilian strikes, and land mines coming from both sides. Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC that follows pretty closely a “dividing line” for the plurality ethnicity as evidenced by the past 30 years of linguistic, electoral, and poling data. And we favor quick peace as opposed to continued hostility that likely will go nowhere.

It sucks that Ukraine’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Russia. It sucks that Luhansk’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Ukraine. It sucks that there’s a geopolitical standoff between the two strongest military powers that overlays this. It sucks that the only imaginable ruling party in Russia is a reactionary capitalist one that was ushered in by Clinton’s intervention. And it sucks that they’re all probably just going to die in a field to resolve it, and make the situation in Bosnia look like a vacation resort in comparison.

There is a silver lining in that we are seeing a great power struggle to subjugate its neighbor, and also in that the wearing down of NATO and Russia allows the less belligerent, more progressive, emerging superpower to have more sway in the world. Some might say that makes it “worth it” but I certainly don’t.

Noughmad,

Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC

This is uncritically supporting the Z operation. It rewards the attacker and gives them absolutely no reason to not try again in 10 years (either in the same country or in another one). It’s also what happened in 2014 and you see the results of that now.

Would you favor an immediate armistice with the Nazis in 1943? I surely hope not, but that would be a quick peace, very much like what the advocate for now.

nohaybanda,

I’m not sure you know the meaning of the word uncritical but go off.

Also, just so we’re on the same page, what do you believe happened in 2014 and what has happened since then until Feb 2022? What political and demographic conditions do you believe set the stage for the conflict that has been going on since then?

Your comparison to WW2 in 1943 is also wildly off. For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust. For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.

Noughmad,

For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust.

I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?

For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.

USSR was just as stalled in early 1943, bleeding manpower and materiel, getting massive war supplies from the USA, and the West was insisting that fighting continues to the last Russian. Sounds familiar?

SmokinStalin,
@SmokinStalin@hexbear.net avatar

Nazis fighting Nazis

ThereRisesARedStar,

I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?

Okay but can you actually name institutional promotion of nazism? For example publishing celebrations of Bandera, putting the OUN trident on old soviet monuments, funding neonazi run youth camps, etc?

I’m guessing you can’t because while there are certainly Nazi Russians they’ve also tried to suppress any sort of Nazi organizing within Russia. The state is hostile to organized Nazism unlike Ukraine.

To be clear, theyre still a right wing neoliberal hellscape, but it is a low bar to clear and one clears it.

Gnubyte,

Honestly it’s exhausting to the whole lemmy experience that every time something gets even slightly political, there’s an extreme communist in the comments pushing their agenda.

I can literally say “hey man they all suck yo fuck politics am I right?” And in comes a guy who tells me I’m a Republican or Democrat or fuck America, whatever. I can even agree that the news is biased in America, and I’ll still get the same response.

It makes conversations for the average consumer on the platform unproductive at best, unsettling in its worst form.

bric,

For me it’s just the fact that people have delved so deep into their echo chambers that they’ve lost all sense of what regular people think. Like I’m fine with someone being an extreme communist, they can have that opinion, but it seems like a lot of people on here talk to other extreme communists so much that they think more nuanced communists are somehow right wing. It doesn’t matter how much you try to concede to acknowledge their viewpoint, their personal Overton windows have shifted so far that they exclude everyone but people exactly like them, and it just makes conversations impossible.

krolden,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

We spell it X-treme communism

LeateWonceslace,

I’m convinced everyone from h*xbear is a bot. (censored b/c I don’t want any of those fuckers noticing).

Strawberry,

You have a very generous opinion of computer scientists

atomicfox,

I love watching the left fight amongst themselves. Maybe they should try focusing on beating the other party.

trudge,

Agreed. There is too much leftist infighting and splintering. We need to focus on defeating the liberal party.

Darth_Reagan,

Classic American chauvinism. Not everyone is an America, both parties are imperialist.

Chapo0114,

The Dems are capitalists they have much more in common with Republicans than they do with my beliefs

SmokinStalin,
@SmokinStalin@hexbear.net avatar
Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt — until recently … and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties.”

  • Gore Vidal

This is out of date, of course. Now the left wing of the Property Party is completely unable and uninterested in wielding power, while the right wing of the Property has descended in to Christian Fascism. But it conveys the essential reality of the situation.

FakeNewsForDogs,
@FakeNewsForDogs@hexbear.net avatar

“The other party” implies that there is a party representing the left/workers. I assume you are talking about American politics, and are specifically implying that party is the Democratic Party. To which all I can say, if you are actually serious, is LOL.

zShxck,
Mindfury,
@Mindfury@hexbear.net avatar

good one, lib

autismdragon,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

How is this even relevant to the thread lmao.

ElChapoDeChapo,
@ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net avatar
McCainRBGcreampie,
Frank,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

When was this I haven’t really been paying attention to the circus?