Madison on why she quit

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Some updates I got from threadreaderapp:

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Link to the thread provided by @lbj.

MystikIncarnate,

I’ll start with: I believe Madison.

I honestly did not even know that she had left, so all of this is news to me. I assumed that she went into a role that suited what she wanted to do (like production or editing or something with no significant on camera time), and was still there. I usually avoid following anything so closely that I’m aware of whatever drama they get into. Which isn’t to imply that Madison’s experience is mere drama, because it’s not. This is an egregious HR violation on all fronts, and bluntly, if Madison still has any evidence of any of this, a lawyer would do well to pick up her case at no cost to Madison; as far as I’m concerned, with any level of evidence, especially right now with the PR nightmare they’re currently weathering, they’ll want to settle quickly (if they have any sense left in their heads whatsoever)… And Madison can walk away with a very reasonable pay off for all this mental anguish.

Of course, money doesn’t un-do the fact that it happened.

On the surface, to me, this looks like LMG hired Madison to appease the masses, partly evidenced by the fact that he announced that he had done so before she was even made aware that they were interested in bringing her on board, which seems to be a trend with Linus now - saying things have happened when he simply rubber stamps the approval to go ahead and start the process… Then “allowed” her to appear on camera enough to show that yes, she does work here… Then as the hype from fans died down and stopped being a benefit to the company, slowly berated her into leaving quietly so schmucks like me (anyone that’s not so dedicated that they read the LTT forums daily), are unaware, and they don’t lose viewers.

The workload described, at first didn’t sound too bad, busy, sure, but not bad. Some Twitter posts, FB posts, a few tiktoks daily… Yeah ok. That’s a fairly reasonable bar to set, a little high IMO, but ok… Then she went on. And on… And on… What the fuck? I get the idea that it’s “only social media” so some think it’s “not really like working” (which I don’t agree with, I just understand why people think that), since managing your own social media is fairly trivial, but when managing it for someone else, you have to constantly check yourself and consider “is this me saying it? Or is this the right tone and perspective for what the company would say?” Because if you say the wrong thing, you’re reprimanded, or fired. That kind of mental gymnastics is rough; and having to do that for a dozen posts a day is a lot of work to accomplish alone, and you’re probably going to make some mistakes unless you can bounce the posts off of someone like a long term employee or manager to make sure that the message isn’t straying from the brand you represent.

I’ve personally been in plenty of scenarios where I’ve been over worked. It happens. When being overworked is basically your job duties, that’s unreasonable in every way.

On top of that the dismissive and demeaning treatment isn’t going to help. I’m not surprised that Madison noped the fuck out, and it’s sad that happened, and more sad that she felt that she shouldn’t even say anything. It’s unsurprising that she left and that she had such a major impact to her mental health by being there… Honestly, it’s almost surprising that she stayed as long as she did… And this isn’t even addressing the sexual misconduct. I know for me, when I think “sexual assault” I’m thinking the worst case scenario, and bluntly, some of the comments that she relays (like “you’ve never gotten drunk with us”) makes me think that could have happened… But it’s not exclusive to that. This is sexual assault. She was sexually harassed and sexually assaulted by staff and bluntly, I hope she names and shames those who were involved. This is unacceptable in any and every way in the workplace and everywhere else. Madison’s gender, sexual orientation, preferences, history, everything, is entirely personal, and discussions of such things in a workplace is completely unacceptable. If she wanted to offer up such information of her own volition, sure, but berating her about it, and harassing or demeaning her about it is completely unwelcome both socially, and legally.

IMO, Madison has a legal case if she ever chooses to pursue it… I think she should but I understand why she hasn’t, and isn’t.

As for LTT and LMG, I’m extremely disappointed that Madison was set up to fail like this. I get that it’s a bit of a boys locker room, where most of the staff are “one of the guys” regardless of who they are or what gender they are, and ribbing is part of that. Clearly this was above and beyond it and from what people said to Madison after she left, her treatment was worse than most… Well beyond a good ribbing, and others could tell. Anyone who participates in ribbing among friends can recognise when they’ve gone too far. IMO, it was clear that they had, and they just kept doing it. No part of that is ok. The staff then took it further and further into sexual harassment and assault, and the management team was complacent. This is wholly unacceptable on LMG’s side. Their behaviour is reprehensible.

I hope Madison is doing better. I’ll probably track down her twitch and throw her a sub, because she deserves it, and never deserved to be treated the way she was. I don’t know what she’s doing now, but I wish her all the success in the world.

7heo,
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

if Madison still has any evidence of any of this, a lawyer would do well to pick up her case at no cost to Madison

That’s what I’m hoping for. The described behavior is unacceptable.

Of course, money doesn’t un-do the fact that it happened.

Getting public acknowledgement that it happened would be a very good start to healing.

slowly berated her into leaving quietly so schmucks like me (anyone that’s not so dedicated that they read the LTT forums daily), are unaware

Madison herself wrote that they were going to announce it on the WAN show, and decided to omit it when she demanded they would include the fact that she quit.

The workload described, at first didn’t sound too bad, busy, sure, but not bad.

I thought about this. I agree with what you wrote, but I would like to add something: if you go for “stupid” tweets (like “behind the scene” goofy content), hipster-style instagram posts, and boring tiktok videos showing someone walking down a corridor, yeah it can be a chill job. I don’t think it would be your job for long, but it would be chill. One the other hand, if you are (like she was) clearly starstruck, and want to do justice to your idol, the tweets/instagram posts/tiktok videos alone are going to take your entire day, at the very best. This is without considering that it also was her responsibility to somehow find people available for floatplane exclusives, and manage other stuff on the top of that…

bluntly, I hope she names and shames those who were involved.

Absolutely. With written proof or screenshots if at all possible, to make it irrefutable.

JohnDClay,

Linus and most people ar lmg seen go be workaholics, so it makes sense (though not okay) that they’d work people way past their limits. Similarly, since the team is mostly guys, sexism and assault could go less noticed as well. They need to hire a really good HR, and fast, and slow down to fix their culture issues before the whole company cracks apart.

landsharkkidd,
@landsharkkidd@aussie.zone avatar

I look after the Twitter account of an online news site as one of my jobs, and even doing just the Twitter alone is so stressful and daunting. Because you have to use the right photos, make the text of the tweet interesting, use the right hashtags and tag the companies we’re talking about.

It is a lot. Even though “it’s just twitter” like… it still takes a toll out of you. So seeing her workload sounded like hell to me. Like Twitter and Facebook are easy enough. But I’ve made some tiktoks here and there on my personal one and it takes a lot of my time.

bruce_willass,

I think the issues and harassment she faced were very real, and are all very serious complaints.

But calling a job stressful where you had to make six social media posts a day and two fluff videos a week? I mean…

nudnyekscentryk,
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

So the situation is getting even crazier now. Someone pointed out this particular part in Madison’s thread:

After I came forward about being assaulted, Someone accused Linus of inappropriate conduct on twitter.

He came over to my corner and started BERATING HER. Calling her insane, mentally ill, an attention seeker, and just digging into this poor woman who had felt wronged by him.

Apparently this correlates with the Naomi Wu a.k.a “Sexy Cyborg” case. When visiting China in 2018, Linus was supposed to work on a project with her. He wanted to discuss her joining Floatplane as a content creator and offered meeting in a hotel one of them was staying at. A misunderstanding came upon, where he intended to meet her to talk in the lobby, and she thought he was talking about a hotel room, that is her sleeping with him to get the contract. She told her how uncomfortable he made her feel and the misunderstanding was immediately cleared.

In 2021 she yet again accused him of “back then just wanting a blowjob for the contract” and also of removing Yvonne from the cc thread to hide infidelity. Linus was furious and this is what Madison is referring to. Linus then proved his version of the story by releasing the correspondence that the misunderstanding was temporary and not only that, but also that Yvonne was on the e-mail chain all along and this was a lie as well.

Again, the hotel misunderstanding took place in 2018, was immediately resolved, but was falsely brought up again in 2021 and now, another 2 years later Madison seems to be ignoring the facts she must have been aware of, even if not at the moment the “berating” she refers to took place, but definitely learned Naomi’s accusations were false at some point between 2021 and her releasing the Twitter statement last week. I would argue this does shine a new light on her accusations and perhaps we shouldn’t have taken these at face value until the investigation (“”““investigation””“”) concludes and perhaps authorities get involved.

In other news, a four months-old Billet Labs’ in-house benchmark surfaced, which confirmed Linus’ original conclusion of the review. Again, this does not prove they did nothing wrong in the process, but perhaps his decision to not re-test the monoblock thing was not a mood after all, and actually an informed guess from someone who knows what they are doing.

I feel like an old lady following celebrity gossip but I now understand why they love the drama. Or bumfights rather

99nights,

Been out of the loop last few weeks but damn, all of a sudden LTT has been getting so much hate lately almost everywhere I look.

Why9,

As they should.

Linus has come out to be manipulative, extremely thin skinned, and the epicentre of most of what’s wrong with LTT right now.

From rejecting content creators’ pleas to redo shoots due to errors, belittling people for complaints both in the company and out in the community (including product partners), to being a source of the misogyny and maltreatment of women, it’s clear that he himself has lost sight of what LTT was.

99nights,

I’ve always thought something suss of him since he started becoming a bigger content creator. He just seems off as a person in general. His arrogance bleeds through his stupid face.

AOCapitulator,
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

Im very much ootl and not a techie, but I do remember hearing a long while back about linus getting cancelled, and then strangely that he was uncancelled a month or so later.

mfw he was 'uncanceled'fry

side note, being drunk and high as I am right now, and as ootl as I am, and not paying attention to where in the lemmyverse I was poooostin, I assumed LTT was some monolithic media corporation until I was like halfway through the screenshots 😬

MargotRobbie,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

What a terrible ordeal for anyone to go through.

Ultimately, it just comes down to the fact that they’ve never respected her, not just as a woman, but as a human being, to be useful when convenient and ignored when not.

I choose to believe her, because it’s something that is all too common in this world, but I don’t think the world has to be this way.

hackitfast,
@hackitfast@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve always got bad vibes from LTT. He seemed like he always had a “bigger than you” attitude about everything. The things mentioned here exceeded my already existing opinions about him.

HiddenLayer5,

Such is life at any content farm. You’re the cattle being milked for content. Reminder that they’re pretty much all like this and it’s an epidemic within the internet video industry.

drlecompte,

He has a grating loud attitude that works well on YouTube and has served him well, and I never found his videos to be obnoxious. But his talents obviously do not include running a 100-person team, that much is certain. I hope he turns it around and makes amends, but given his recent comments and his general attitude, I doubt it.

hackitfast,
@hackitfast@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah he obviously didn’t want this to happen, but he clearly lacks fundamental leadership skills, and lacks any sorts of emotional intelligence in how to even react to the situation.

He’s reached a point where he couldn’t handle the growth, and he’s now ruined the image he built for himself over the years. I don’t see him saving face especially with this sad excuse of an apology video and like you said, his general reactions and recent comments.

LemmyWinks666,

Can’t wait to watch Linus fumble over the explanation of this one. I’m sure it’ll just be a lot of deflection and not-so-subtle victim blaming, but at this point he needs to squirm. Can’t pawn it off on “the new CEO.”

Melatonin,

Posting because I can’t figure out how to save on this client yet and I want to read this thread. feel free to ignore or download as you wish.

Jnxl,

Doing the same

null,

Thanks, I’ve downloaded your comment for safekeeping. Let me know if you need it later.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

expired

3ntranced,

Well, time to go write several long winded emails to all of LTTs current/former/prospective sponsors about how to avoid them like the plague.

shadowspirit,

I swear I tried. I got ten screenshots/links in and then killed myself. I’m posting from the grave. Long live Lemmy. Infinite Twitter screenshot support was my dying wish for the fedi-verse. Bless you.

MooseBoys,

I’m really glad I didn’t purchase that stupid screwdriver now.

ThePac,

This all dropped the day I got mine. :(

Shame, too. It’s a really nice screwdriver.

mirisgaiss,

I got the backpack, and sadly I really like it for carrying around the stuff I use daily. can’t understand the insane hype around a damn screwdriver though…

RandomLegend,
@RandomLegend@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

A few days before this whole shitshow i bought the flannel and their swacket…gotta put some stickers on the logo now i guess

cooopsspace,

Everyone should be leaving this the fuck alone, let the alleged victims, lawyers.and LTT sort it out.

The timing and mental health problems make this whole story incredibly suspect.

PeoplesRepublicOfNewEngland,

Because she is explicitly choosing to share that this asshole and his company destroyed her mental health you don’t believe her?

Go to hell

cooopsspace,

It’s one person’s voice against another.

Speculating on Reddit or Lemmy does fuck all.

Leave it for the lawyers to sort out if Madison can produce even a shred of evidence, which shouldn’t be hard because she isn’t the first LMG employee to just up and leave.

But yeah, intentionally cutting your leg open to go to the ER is totally what a rational balanced individual would do sure.

PeoplesRepublicOfNewEngland,

If it’s the only way to take time off it absolutely could be. Though in such an instance really it’s your hero Linus who is responsible for cutting her leg open.

cooopsspace,

It’s fucking Canada, just tip your hat and say sorry and the progressive employment laws will take care of you.

Nobody was chained to a desk, doing anything except walking the fuck out of there is doing yourself a disservice but you absolutely need not injur yourself.

7heo,
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

You clearly haven’t worked in a challenging environment with poor management. Self harm isn’t a joke. Post removed.

PeoplesRepublicOfNewEngland,

Oh yeah?

Someone’s obviously never experienced the faintest hint of worry about finding employment or keeping a roof over their head. Because I guess no one has ever had such problems in Canada

Maybe someday it will happen to you and you will finally grow up and stop being a colossal douche

7heo,
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

You clearly haven’t worked in a challenging environment with poor management. Self harm isn’t a joke. Post removed.

Tankiedesantski,

When it comes to a worker and a multi-million dollar corporation, “let the lawyers sort it out” effectively means the same thing as “do nothing and let the corporation bury the worker in legal fees until they give up.”

Not that speculating on Lemmy is really doing all that much, but if enough people start unsubscribing or saying they’ll stop watching LTT over this, it creates an incentive for LTT to give her a better settlement.

Incidentally, shit like this is also another good reason to join or start a union.

cooopsspace,

You’re right but if she had anything concrete she still should have lawyered up.

Fuck in Canada they even have lawyers that’ll take you on for free.

And I’m all for unions.

Tankiedesantski,

Lawyers who work on contingency (no win - no fee) have a lot of caveats.

  1. They usually work on easy, open and shut cases. The more likely they are to win the more likely they are to get paid.
  2. They usually take a much bigger chunk of the plaintiff’s winnings if they do win, so even a win is much less of a win than otherwise.
  3. Even if they work for a larger firm, most lawyers who work on contingency don’t have the resources, or can’t justify using firm resources, on a risky case that entails a lot of work. This might result in incomplete discovery, or the other side buying a one-person operation in paper.
  4. I mean this in the nicest possible way, and this is a generalization, but most lawyers choose not to work on contingency if they have other work. This often means (and of course there are exceptions) that contingency lawyers are not the cream of the crop, especially compared to whatever big firm lawyers a company can retain.
cooopsspace,

TLDR if Madison had a shred of evidence she might have a case, but instead she probably has squat and is just shy of defamatory online when the spotlight isn’t on her to try and do damage.

silent_water,
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

tldr review the posting policy bulletin

jwagner7813,

Hindsight is 2020 and all, but I did always feel like something was a bit off with his demeanor (Linus). First I thought it was just his camera voice/personality, but now I’m thinking it’s just him turned up (or down) a notch…

meejle,
@meejle@lemmy.world avatar

It’s very clear once you’ve watched a few episodes of The Wan Show that he’s basically a massive asshole and a liability, surrounded by people desperately trying to rein him in.

Particularly more recently, I think? Like, I eventually stopped watching because the first 40 minutes of every episode was Linus trying to defend himself for the latest bullshit thing he’d done. 🙄

tias,

One guy even said in their latest excuse video that it was his job “to stop Linus from driving off a cliff.”

3laws,

Which is such a pity, because you can tell his personal friendship has always been pretty much just like that.

drlecompte,

tbf, you don’t know that. Linus is probably also the guy you can call at 3AM in an emergency, and he’ll be there for you. Which might explain the loyalty he gets from early hires.

3laws,

Tbf, yes we know that, 15 years of hearing and watching Luke vent on WAN, interviews and public spaces. And Linus confirming it all. As well as stories from Jake and Ivonne in the same vein.

3AM in an emergency, and he’ll be there for you

Both things can be true.

jwagner7813,

Yeah seems like he has that overboard personality. Everything needs to be max effort, 100% of the time. And it probably got him where he’s at, up until recently. But not everyone or everything operates that way. Things eventually break down or have issues, and I think we’re starting to see some of that now.

Unfortunately, he went from a small, buddy buddy business to a now large, corporate business still trying to hang onto the way they used to do things. Kind of like closing a deal with a handshake. Things don’t operate like that anymore. People need to be held accountable, documents need to be signed and filed away…

drlecompte,

The personality traits that made Linus a very successful YouTuber are probably the exact same personality traits that make him unable to deal with this kind of backlash in a healthy way, or to run a 100-person team for that matter.

SirHery,

I must say i wass always appalled how he snapped at employees in the “haha I’m kidding” tone. It always felt off to me.

Twelve20two,

I’ve only seen a small handful of their older videos. Is this something they’d include?

3laws,

Yes, for “comedic” purposes.

meejle,
@meejle@lemmy.world avatar

I used to watch The Wan Show which I guess is more of an unfiltered look than the edited videos. But yeah, kinda.

There were numerous times when he’d openly criticise a colleague, or just like… undermine them? And then realise he was looking like an asshole and awkwardly laugh to try to pass it off as a joke.

Twelve20two,

Wow. Gross

drlecompte,

Yeah, but from those videos it’s unclear whether that’s an act or real. Iirc there have been Reddit AMAs about ‘what it’s like to work for LTT’ and the tone there was always ‘It’s intense’ and ‘His YouTube persona is not an act’ but never anything really damning. The ex-employees there seemed to respect him, but did see it as a place with a harsh work culture and little space for a personal/family life.

I think the fast growth accelerated some bad tendencies in the culture, and now it’s all a complete mess that got away from them. The CEO change in hindsight seems quite ominous, now.

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