Meuzzin,

I honestly don’t care what people are into, but this game is a bit intense, sexually. I’m just trying to get my RPG fix, and all the characters constantly wanna bang my ass, when all I want is to be their Homie…

Gooey0210,

It’s good I have eternity client for Lemmy and it shows me my subscribed topics in the main tab

And I don’t need to see people shouting at other people so often

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Everything has to be gay, EVERYTHING! Because that reflects reality, where the vast majority of people are gay and ABCDEFG12345QQ++*.,-?XYZ.

In fact being gay is the most noble thing to be, and it has to be the main point of every single conversation forever. Who you like to fuck is THAT important to everyone around you, you’re the main character after all.

SweatyFireBalls,

I suppose the irony of trying to make it less lGbtq and instead making it lgbTq goes unnoticed by the bigoted creator?

Exusia,
@Exusia@lemmy.world avatar

Something something respect the creators vision when I agree with it?

Zima,
Zima avatar

I would hope that a similar mod that gives options to disable certain types of romances would have been better suited. So long as it doesn’t single out the types of romances he dislikes.

mindbleach,

Nexus consistently refuses to be a platform for bigotry.

That should not be controversial, at all, in any context.

If this asshat wants to publish it elsewhere - he’s free to. Nobody’s stopping him. It’s just a file. He has every moral right to modify software however he sees fit, and he has every practical right to be a homophobe online with fellow homophobes.

But I don’t want anything to do with him. I don’t want to use any website that’s cool with bigots spreading bigotry. If the people who run the website don’t want to deal with that shit either… tough shit, guy. Find another bar. This one’s not for Nazis. Warn all your Nazi friends.

ShaggySnacks,

bUt MuH FrEeDoM oF sPeEch!

SpookySnek, (edited )

You lost me at Nazis lmao

Please don’t water down the word

mindbleach,

We’re not.

This is how stupid the actual Nazis were, before all the murder.

saze,

So you’re saying everyone I disagree with is not in fact a Nazi? Interesting stuff but it sounds exactly like something a Nazi would say.

mindbleach,

Shut up, troll. We’re talking about overt bigots targeting racial and sexual minorities.

saze,

OK snowflake 😁

mindbleach,

Says jackass pretending everyone’s just calling names, when the modder explicitly stated their bigoted intent. ‘Everyone’s such a meanie and calls names, waaah!’ No: we’re specifically talking about Nazis who proudly say ‘why yes we are Nazis, thank you for asking.’

But your kind doesn’t care what words mean, so you’re just gonna performatively roll your eyes some more.

saze,

OK snowflake

mindbleach,

Sadly predictable.

saze,

And likewise.

Landsharkgun,

First Nazi book burning was in front of a Berlin center for transgender research.

Just saying.

trackcharlie, (edited )

Apparently you’ve never modded skyrim.

Nexus mods is a host to ‘underage marriage’ mods.

You’re clueless as fuck dog, the trash admins at nexus are virtue signaling to make themselves look better while also avoiding people looking too heavily into the wide variety of truly horrific mods that are on the site.

None of which I really care whether someone uses or not because I’m not a grade schooler and can make the differentiation between reality and a fucking video game, but pretending they have any moral high ground indicates you have no clue what you’re talking about.

mindbleach,

‘You must never have done a thing you’ve done a bunch, because this site hosts weird shit that’s unrelated to anything you said.’

Porn isn’t bigotry. Fuck off.

trackcharlie,

Says the illiterate pedophile

Azzu,

Just to be clear for everyone here, the mod author effectively stated the goal was to reduce diversity.

There are other mods that change gender of characters that state no such thing, which are still up. It’s really only the intent here that mattered.

EtherealMoon,
@EtherealMoon@lemmy.world avatar

It’s mildly interesting to consider that just stating the intent is the key difference. Not so much banning the mod as the modder, I guess.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

That’s the key part about this and the other times it’s made the news I dislike. They don’t actually care about the content in the mod, which is why 90% of these hateful mods remain up; those mod authors didn’t put the same hate into the description, or the forum, or anywhere other than in the mod which would have to be downloaded and verified by someone to actually know it’s a hateful piece of shit. And then when it makes the news when one jackass decides to spout racist/sexist/homo/transphobic shit in the description and get their mod removed, people point out all the other hateful mods that didn’t get taken down and wonder why this one is being singled out.

Just remove all of them.

Azzu,

“Remove all of them” implies a good question: what is “all” of them? All mods changing the models of characters? Changing the models of characters to make them more conventionally attractive? Less conventionally attractive? Changing the gender of characters? Changing men to women? Changing women to men? All mods that change skin color? Changing white skin to black skin? Changing black skin to white skin? All mods changing sexual orientation? Straight to queer? Queer to straight?

I think you should just allow everything, as long as it isn’t associated with hate speech or discrimination. Which is exactly what’s happening here.

Gooey0210,

No mods ever allowed, no modifications to any licensed content, in any kind, only vanilla play through, and only one time

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

All of them meaning all of the mods that clearly do things out of bigotry like turning black characters white, erasing gay characters, erasing trans issues, etc.

This isn’t a particularly hard moral or ethical question to anyone who isn’t trying to allow hateful content to spread.

Azzu,

Just checking, so if a mod was released that made a straight character gay, that would be fine, but one that made a gay character straight wouldn’t be? Or would both be fine? Assuming no description for either, nothing but content.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

The big difference is that when mods remove a single gay character, it’s always the only gay character in the game.

If the mod adding gay characters turns all the straight characters gay, that’s erasure. If the new gay character has dialogue that is hateful toward straight people, it’s still bigotry.

Adding representation to a game that has none is fine. Removing representation entirely isn’t.

VaultBoyNewVegas,

I love how you explained what you meant by all of them and got the typical gotcha question in response.

Azzu,

So what if there are 3 gay characters, and there are 3 separate mods that each make one of the characters straight. Each single one does not remove representation, but having all 3 installed together would. Do you ban these 3 mods?

I don’t know, I just feel like this is such an arbitrary choice. If you reduce the number to 2 gay characters in a game, with 2 different mods, is that still okay or should both be banned again?

Is it really a difference if you reduce the number of gay characters to 1? What if you split the mod up into two parts, one just removing all sexual remarks (effectively with the intention of making the char asexual), and another simply also adding hetero (so effectively making the char bi) remarks, and you then combine these two mods again to effectively make the 1 character hetero (official gay remarks removed, hetero remarks added)?

Sure, representation is great and I’m all for it, but I’m also for people being able to change whatever they want in their own game. In the end, it’s only affecting them and no one else, which should be the prime directive of tolerance.

Bluescluestoothpaste,

Yes.

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

And nothing of value has been lost. Eff that mod.

ThunderclapSasquatch,

I should have snagged it, the model swap was actually pretty good. Oh well, not worth dealing with the drama

ShaunaTheDead,
ShaunaTheDead avatar

To those that are saying they don't see a problem with this mod. Let me put it to you this way. Instead of a mod that turned one gay woman into a straight man what if it turned one black character into a white character?

There literally was a mod like that in Stardew Valley that turned Demetrius into a white character, and it was rightfully deleted from Nexus mods. If someone has that much of a problem with a character being a different race, sex, gender, or sexual identity then they're clearly bigoted no matter what they say to the contrary.

It's gay erasure, and it's bigotry, plain and simple.

Obonga,

I would say so too but my problem was not my best buddies being gay in general or even flirting with me but the awkwardness of having to straight up reject them. It is not bad to have this as a second hand experience in a game but i can see how people do not like it. I suffered through the awkward feeling of telling Gale off but i wish there was a more clear friendship route to begin with. Again, i dont mind flirting or my friend being homosexual and attracted to me. I just wish i could give hints that this is one sided like i would irl. Not sure in what way the mod did it and i see why it might be taken down but also its not like this mod will vanish because of it.

colforge,

It’s funny how much this comment mirrors the experience of LGBT people left and right. Do you think it’s not awkward for a lesbian to “have to straight up reject” their male “friends” who come on to them? Or gay men and their female “friends”, or asexuals and literally anyone.

Obonga,

I sure cant judge whether rejection by the same sex is worse but that has little to do with that i dont like to have to reject people so why would i lile it when a game i enjoy, with characters that i care about simulate these unpleasent parts of life. Its like saying a game that induces diarreah is just simulating real life (i know this is a very bad comparrison). I dont care about the sex of the person i reject, i simply hate letting people i care about down. And i dont like this part about the game, shame on me.

colforge,

I certainly don’t mean to shame you for what seems to be a desire to play the game without being propositioned for sex at all. That seems to me to be a completely different thing than wanting to remove a particular sexuality from the game but leaving others intact.

ShaunaTheDead,
ShaunaTheDead avatar

Maybe having to go through that hardship of rejecting someone because you're just not into something fundamental and unchangeable about them such as their gender representation will make you have empathy and understanding for queer people and the struggle they face daily where only about 1 in 10 people they're attracted to will be attracted back.

Exposure to queer media helps build understanding and empathy. Erasing it erodes that understanding and empathy.

BraveSirZaphod,
BraveSirZaphod avatar

If you're looking for games that have nothing that might make you uncomfortable, those games do exist, but Baldur's Gate is not one of them.

For a lot of people, directly tackling elements of life that are uncomfortable or actively unpleasant is what can make a game, movie, or whatever else high quality art. Schindler's List is explicitly about one of the most horrendous chapters in all of human history, and it's also one of the greatest movies ever made. Being uncomfortable isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Zima,
Zima avatar

I don’t disagree at all. It would be great to have a mod that could let you choose to remove the romances the player doesn’t want to deal with.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

I suffered through the awkward feeling of telling Gale off

This happens in real life too, though.

And the dialog gives you the options to turn him down, just like in real like you'd have a "dialog option" to turn down a gay person who hits on you. And in real life, it's awkward just like it is in game.

All sorts of uncomfortable things happen in the game. Friends die. Children get murdered. Girls get kidnapped and used as baby incubators. Gnomes are forced into slavery. A hobgoblin fucks a ogre in a barn. As much as people don't want to experience those things in real life, you don't see mods deleting them. Yet people can't seem to figure out that making a special case for the gayness is quite actually gay erasure. They're fine with countless uncomfortable things, buy a bisexual character giving them eyes is too icky to handle??

People need to grow up and stop making excuses for homophobia that they wouldn't make for anything else.

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

A hobgoblin fucks an ogre in a barn.

…I was legit trying to forget that ever
happened. There are some things I never knew I never wanted to see until I saw it, and that was definitely at the top of that list.

Obonga,

Ok, yes i wrote that not in a good way but it seems you missed my point. My point was that me being friendly was taken as me wanting to bang. That happens irl and it happens in this game. Just because this happens irl does not mean i have to enjoy them ingame. I simply hate awkward situations and while i might be able to dodge them irl i can dodge them in my games which would not make me an anyphobe. There were 4 Characters that hit on me and only one romance i was interested in. Indeed i have felt the same level of awkwardness no matter the sex of the character i rejected.

wildginger,

If you cant handle awkward social interactions in the “fantasy social interactions simulator” youre probably playing the wrong game

SquirtleHermit, (edited )

I dunno Yogi, seems hypocritical to champion inclusively in gaming on one hand and tell folks they are probably playing the wrong game for wanting to avoid a specific feature in it.

I fully agree that mod sites should not tolerate bigoted mods. But saying someone should avoid playing a game they enjoy just because there is a specifically uncomfortable social interaction for them, when it could be modded out had the same energy as the folks saying the Sekiro easy mode mod shouldn’t exist.

Should they remove the “feminist Nerevarine” mod from Morrowind as well because there is sexism in the game, just because some folks still want to play it but not be forced to personally engage in sexist behavior? Should they remove the “Spiders are Wolves” mod in Skyrim? Should people not play games they only enjoy modded? If so, Bethesda is in big trouble…

ShaunaTheDead,
ShaunaTheDead avatar

This issue isn't really about equality, it's about exposure and building empathy. The more people are exposed to the plight that queer people face every day, the more likely they are to build an empathetic connection to them, to care about queer issues, to see it through their eyes, and to understand and support them through it.

SquirtleHermit, (edited )

I am all for exposure, and building empathy. I do think representation is extremely important. And I greatly appreciate you sharing your point of view with me. I hadn’t considered that to the extent I should have. And I whole heartedly agree that greater exposure to the situations being discussed would lead to a more ideal society.

My only point was that if they want to mod out the awkward conversations where they have to turn down their friends advances, regardless of the characters sex, gender, or orientation, and that is the only road bump preventing them from fully enjoying one of the best RPG’s, then I think it’s okay that they get to enjoy their game. They didn’t strike me as being bigoted, they didn’t ask for LGBTQ+ representation to be removed from the game, they just felt bad about hurting their friends feelings. That to me already shows a fair amount of empathy.

And if such a mod (again, not the bigoted mod the post is about, but the hypothetical mod being discussed in this comment thread that “allows you to have less awkward methods of not engaging in relationships with characters you are not romantically interested in so as to avoid feeling bad about turning down your friends”) is the difference between them playing the game or not, then wouldn’t also be fair to say they are getting more exposure just by being able to play the game?

If you feel that wanting to avoid hurting your friends feelings in a game through mods would cause a significant blow to society developing empathy for and getting exposure to LGBTQ+ issues, while we do have a difference of opinion on that line, I still respect the battle you are choosing to champion and say more power to you. Good luck fighting the good fight.

wildginger,

Eeey Boo Boo, if you complain about sword combat in dark souls, it was-a probably not dark souls’ fault and you should-a probably find a different game

I could mod the combat out of dark souls too. But if youre doing that, you should just go play a game that has the things you want in it and doesnt have the things youre not looking for.

Its a dnd simulation, and dnd is a lot of social roleplay of awkward moments and scenes. I totally get if thats not your bag, but typically when half of a game isnt your bag you just pass on it.

Feathercrown,

That’s really not my experience with D&D. It’s fairly common to play in games without too many awkward interactions.

SquirtleHermit,

lol. Don’t get me wrong, I see your point (fwiw, I did not mod sword combat out of Dark Souls, or difficult role playing decisions out of my RPG’s). But I just don’t think someone else doing so in a non-bigoted way is that big of a deal. Especially when they made it clear that they just don’t want to hurt their in game friends feelings, regardless of their sex, gender, or orientation. And if that is the only little road bump to them enjoying what is one of the best RPG’s I’ve ever played, then I say I would rather have them not miss the game.

wildginger,

Where did I say it was a big deal? I said they should probs not play a game thats 50% the things they hate

The social decisions is why its the best rpg youve played. The romance and party interactions is all bg3 players talk about. If youre modding that out? You probably are playing it cause its popular, and should just go play something you dont need to cut in half to have fun with.

SquirtleHermit, (edited )

You didn’t say it was a big deal, I said I didn’t think it was a big deal. Even if someone wanted to remove all of the dialogue from the game because they just loved the combat, classes, skill, etc, I wouldn’t think its a big deal. I love the RPG elements in BG3 (frankly, awkward social interaction simulators are some of my favorite games), but I don’t really mind if someone plays something just because it’s popular and they want to see what the buzz is about. Nor do I mind if they have specific anxieties that they don’t want to be subjected to (no different from turning the giant spiders into bears in Skyrim imho). Nor if they just want to be on a power trip in a world that they like the design and lore of. And if they can have fun doing so, I really don’t see why they should avoid that just because they might have to experience the fun of modding as well.

Maybe I misread your comment, but you saying:

If you cant handle awkward social interactions in the “fantasy social interactions simulator” youre probably playing the wrong game

In response to their comment:

My point was that me being friendly was taken as me wanting to bang. That happens irl and it happens in this game. Just because this happens irl does not mean i have to enjoy them ingame. I simply hate awkward situations and while i might be able to dodge them irl i can dodge them in my games which would not make me an anyphobe. There were 4 Characters that hit on me and only one romance i was interested in. Indeed i have felt the same level of awkwardness no matter the sex of the character i rejected.

Made it seem like you believed @Obonga wanted to remove 50% of the game, as opposed to the single situation they said they wanted to avoid. I can see how you might have assumed their statement that they “hate awkward social interactions” meant all possible interactions that could be construed as awkward. But when I read their comment, it seemed to me like they meant a specific interaction they personally find awkward, and to me that one interaction does not constitute 50% of the game. Rather it is just 1% of that 50%.

Guess I just choose the “people should be allowed to enjoy the games they want the way the want” hill to die on today. Gatekeeping fun has never sat right with me.

wildginger,

They didnt want to avoid a single situation, they said they wanted to avoid all awkward conversations with npcs. Have you played bg3? Thats a very large portion of the non combat. They were fairly clear that it wasnt just the romance turn downs, but the awkwardness of the npcs specifically. Thats a lot of this game.

I dunno how its gatekeeping to tell someone they dont sound like they enjoy the game theyre talking about, and would probably have more fun playing something without it. Seems explicitly the opposite of that, actually. But if you want to make sure you die on this hill you can go right ahead with that take

SquirtleHermit, (edited )

Could you point out where they were “fairly clear” that they wanted to avoid all awkward social interactions, and could you explain how you are so confident you know what interactions they deem awkward? Because it seems to me like you are making a lot of assumptions.

They were specifically talking about the awkwardness they feel when turning down romantic advances. They did say they “hate awkward social interactions”, but seeing as they also are talking about turning down romantic advances detracting from their enjoyment, it’s fair to assume they found that specific event awkward. They very well could have (and indeed seemed to me to have) meant that they don’t like personally rejecting the advancements of people they are close with. That does not mean that they find the same awkwardness in any of the other role-playing events.

Also, since they were saying removing those specific interactions would enhance their enjoyment, it’s fair to assume they were enjoying the game.

In regards to “how it was gatekeeping”, you might have missed that I indicated I could have misunderstood your intent. But telling someone that they shouldn’t play a game they want to and it sounds like they enjoy, just because it has an aspect they don’t enjoy that could be modded out, is gatekeeping. I get that you believe they hate all of the interactions that could possibly be seen as awkward, and that under that impression you made what I’ll assume to be an honest attempt to steer them away from playing a game they might not enjoy. But frankly, we disagree on how much of the game they found to be awkward, and just as you seem to have missed my point, and I believe you missed their point, I guess it was just very easy to misinterpret your “friendly recommendation” as telling them if they don’t like every aspect of a game you like out of the box, they should stop playing it, when they could very well just mod it to be even more fun for them.

If I took advice like yours, even in it’s best intent, I would have missed out on some of my very favorite games. Daggerfall, couldn’t get into it at all, Daggerfall Unity, amazing. New Vegas at launch on the PS3, frustrated me to no end, modded a decade later, top 5 games of my life. Warcraft 3 (hell any RTS), can’t stand em. DOTA, lost countless hours to (and that one they gutted 90% of the game). Sometimes, being willing to make your game your own is the path to enjoyment.

wildginger,

Ill be honest dude, Im not interested in nitpicking the comments of a completely unrelated persons comment. Thats a waste of time.

Real sorry that me reccomending someone try a different game that they would enjoy more upset you so bad bud, enjoy the hill

SquirtleHermit,

When did I ask you to nitpick? You said something that didn’t make sense to me, and I asked for clarification. If you didn’t have any reason to believe they were referring to all NPC interactions in the first place, why were you so confident that they weren’t enjoying the game? And how is the point of view we were discussing unrelated? Why when they mentioned a single thing they would like changed did you feel it would be helpful to tell them to stop playing the game entirely?

I get the feeling that you were arguing just for the sake of arguing and at this point have noticed you were kinda just wrong about your assumptions and have decided to abandon ship and pretend this whole thing was beneath you all along…

Honestly, I tried to make your arguments make sense, but they really only do if I assume you ignored most of what was said and cherrypicked the information you wanted to argue against.

Speaking of which, you recommending someone try a different game that they would enjoy more in good faith didn’t upset me. I even acknowledged that I possibly misinterpreted your meaning on that front. I also explained why I interpreted it the way I did. I just think even if your assumptions were correct, it was still bad advice. Not upsetting advice, just bad.

Anyway, I suppose it’s bad form of me to bother someone after they said they don’t feel like engaging anymore. So sorry to take up your time and have a good one. Cheers.

wildginger,

I wont lie dude, if my arguments didnt make sense to you, you should have asked for clarification rather than going by your feelings. Cause your feelings missed the mark by miles.

Ciao

SquirtleHermit, (edited )

Buddy, you have literally misrepresented what I have said multiple times, and what @Obonga said, and now you are saying I’m going by my feelings? I did ask for clarification…

Could you point out where they were “fairly clear” that they wanted to avoid all awkward social interactions, and could you explain how you are so confident you know what interactions they deem awkward?

You told me it wasn’t worth your time to “nitpick”.

And I don’t believe I missed the mark at all. You either misunderstood or misrepresented what they wanted, just to tell them that they should go play something else, as opposed to possibly just letting them enjoy the game in their own way. Even though they clearly enjoyed it enough to get through aspects they didn’t like.

When pressed on this, you exaggerated the extent of their issue to fit your original viewpoint. And when asked for clarification, you said I should have asked for clarification… Do you honestly just skim everything you read or?

wildginger,

Damn, youve been told goodbye twice and youre still badgering me. Its not even a hint, I was pretty fucking clear.

Missed marks left and right

Also a real dick move to keep pinging someone else not really involved in this anymore.

SquirtleHermit,

You ignored my goodbye, you ignored most of what I said frankly, you are under no obligation to read or respond, and I’m under no obligation to not respond. Sorry if my ability to respond is so offensive to you.

SaltySalamander,
SaltySalamander avatar

Some people will be offended by literally anything.

Obonga,

Actual thanks btw because yesterday was a pretty shitty day and being labeled as a homophobe really was just the cherry on the shit cake. Seeing that atleast some people understand what i meant puts me at ease.

SaltySalamander,
SaltySalamander avatar

I can safely say in my ~30 years of playing DnD I've never once been propositioned for gay sex.

ShaunaTheDead,
ShaunaTheDead avatar

There have been multiple times that I've been friendly with women and they'll randomly blurt out "I have a boyfriend/husband/partner". This is a universal feeling, and it makes the game all the more realistic that it includes that. Unfortunately it had to happen with a gay character so people are able to toe the line of homophobia and say that they just didn't like the rejection.

I would be fine with a mod that simply removed the harsh rejection. It's not great for queer exposure and empathy building, but I wouldn't call that outright homophobia. It's lightyears ahead of turning the gay woman into a man.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

No, I understood what you said. The point I was making was that while many people are perfectly ok shrugging off women they don't want to partner with, they get all icky and upset when it comes to shrugging off a man they don't want to partner with.

Like in your post you specifically singled out Gale. Yet here you are kind of ret-conning that to "4 characters that hit on you." But when you commented your initial complaint it was just Gale. It was just the gay one.

That's what I'm talking about when I say subconscious prejudice/homophobia. I'm not putting you on the same level as the mod maker or some rabid homophobe who's out there trying to take rights away. But I am asking you to examine your reaction and consider if maybe there was something more to it then just "I don't wanna bang this person." Why specifically the sympathy for people who don't like Gale coming on to them vs people who don't want space-lizard-with-tits or daddy's princess coming on to them? That's all.

deweydecibel, (edited )

I don’t see how this is any different than when straight characters in a game hit on you and you have to reject them. Why does the sexuality or gender of the person change anything when it comes to rejection? You’re either into them or you aren’t. Make a mod that eliminates awkward rejection moments across the board.

It’s a matter of targeting. There are ways to address the change you’d like to see that aren’t this focused, give granular control, and permit players to form an experience of their own. It’s not just about the mod they made, it’s about the mod they could have made but didn’t, and that reveals a prejudice.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

Because it actually is 100% homophobia, even when it's unintentional. A bit of introspection as to why it bothers people or why they defend it with "I can see why some people..." would do wonders to highlight peoples' subconscious prejudices.

Obonga,

Sure. Somehow i only had to reject one of my female companions and that felt shitty too even though i wasnt that big of a friend. Must be my homophobia kicking in.

Roflmasterbigpimp,
@Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world avatar

The point the others are trying to make is that you (and others) don’t feel the need to have a mod to deactivate females coming on to you. But you (and others) do need one for males coming on to you? This is the entire point. That two equal people doing the same thing but the reactions are so harshly different that people need to change the Game, just because one person is male and the other female.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

The other commenter has it 100% right. You had to reject the female companion too, but you only complained about the male one. It wasn't a problem when you had to reject a girl coming after you, but when you had to reject a guy coming after you, you wished for some game mechanism to disable that kind of interaction. So yes, it's a form of subconscious homophobia. Look, I'm not calling you a bigot or anything like that, but I am calling you out on having some subconscious prejudice. We all have it somewhere or another. The key is that when you're called out on it you should recognize it and correct it, rather than get defensive about it.

Obonga,

Ohh yes a mod that eliminates all awkward rejection moments would have been exactly what i want. In the end i want to say that this game has been nothing but awesome even though it forced me to disappoint my companions from time to time.

ShaunaTheDead,
ShaunaTheDead avatar

Having to go through that hardship of rejecting someone because you're just not into something fundamental and unchangeable about them such as their gender representation will make people learn to have empathy and understanding for queer people and the struggle they face daily where only about 1 in 10 people they're attracted to will be attracted back.

Exposure to queer media helps build understanding and empathy. Erasing it erodes that understanding and empathy.

You still have the privilege of hitting on 90% of people you're attracted to IRL or in games reciprocating your advances, so it's not really that big a deal to have 1 interaction end in rejection.

muse,
muse avatar

The creator of the mod actually wanted to do just that. He wanted to turn Wyll white, erase all LGBT references, and make Mizhena a trans person who regretted their decision and detransitioned.

gravitas_deficiency,

Eesh. Bet we all can guess who that modder voted for :(

Honytawk,

Geert Wilders?

gravitas_deficiency,

If they’re Dutch: likely.

prole,

Imagine being that insecure

captainlezbian,

Wow. Also like that last one is just why, you can pretend we don’t exist without this shit

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I have no problem with a mod that changes someone’s sexual orientation, someone’s race, someone’s species, or just plain removes or adds new characters. Why would I care how someone else is playing a game?

deweydecibel, (edited )

You don’t have to care. No one does. No one is blocking this from working.

It’s just not being listed on Nexus.

Moreover this mod wasn’t giving options to players to choose how they wanted to play, it was changing very specific things and advertising it. Nexus doesn’t care to let them use their platform to advertise a mod made for a very specific audience of really shitty people.

EatATaco,

No one does.

This is patently false because if no one cares, it wouldn’t have been removed. It was only removed because enough people cared and spoke up about it. Even just reading this thread makes it clear that plenty of people care about it.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

This comment would mean anything if they had said “no one cares,” but what they said was “no one has to care”

EatATaco,

I’m an idiot who can’t read. Potentially… I see they edited their post.

reverendsteveii,

I feel like there’s a smidge of ambiguity in the phrase

You don’t have to care. No one does.

Which could parse to

You don’t have to care. No one has to care.

or

You don’t have to care. No one cares.

EatATaco,

Yeah I already admitted I’m an idiot that can’t read, assuming they didn’t edit this part of their post.

Omegamanthethird,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

I actually don’t think it is ambiguous. “You don’t have to care” implies that some might, but it doesn’t matter. “No one does” is clearly reinforcing that point, rather than making a new point which contradicts the first part of the first point.

Goldmage263,
@Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works avatar

Not if you read cardfully, but it is easy to gloss over. I’d give them a pass, especially since changing your opinion when presented with different information isn’t nearly common enough.

TopRamenBinLaden,

Literally the only care that mattered in this situation is the admin(s) at Nexus mods, and they didn’t have to even care that much. The thing could be removed with about 5 minutes of work, if that. Nexus has shown that they will not platform bigotry, and this is them following through on that once again. Other people’s opinions didn’t even matter.

Cornpop,

Right? Like who gives a fuck lol it’s their game. If they aren’t comfortable with gay characters because they are still in the closet or some shit they should be able to play a game without it if they want.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

And they can, and if Nexus has a problem with hosting homophobic mods, they should be able to not host them

Cornpop, (edited )

Yep. I just don’t get the outrage I guess. It’s like people are surprised racists and bigots exist.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

I can absolutely understand these people being outraged when someone releases a mod that exists solely to erase them the same way they’d been erased from western media since western media was a thing.

Cornpop,

I mean this is nothing new. Racism exists and it’s only natural that it spills over to mods. Just skip it and move on and fuck the haters. My point is that it’s better to just ignore than to give it attention. The attention is what the bigots are really after. Giving it to them is what they want. The mod creator that built this is absolutely loving how things are going here.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Ignoring it makes it seem like it’s okay. Calling out bigotry is how we show people that it isn’t acceptable.

Goldmage263,
@Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m tired of being quiet about hateful content. I’ll call it out and hope they get their nexus account banned if they keep it up. I’d rather review bomb it in force to show the public opinion.

Leg,

Ignoring racism and bigotry has literally never worked, outside of maintaining personal delusions. The more comfortable people are in their hatred, the more bold they become in acting on it. Slavery and genocide happen for a reason, and it’s in part because people don’t take that shit seriously until it’s too late.

affiliate,

rugged individualism is not the path to a functioning society. in any society worth living in there are certain views that cannot be tolerated. the kind of bigotry expressed by the mod creator is one of those views that cannot be tolerated.

Draedron,

Because their target is to reduce diversity

SkyeStarfall,

Neither do they have a right to a platform, hence, deleted off of the platform.

SasquatchBanana,

Exactly this. Play the game you want, but that shit shouldn’t be platformed.

VaultBoyNewVegas,

It’s honestly surprising to me the bigots haven’t set up their own mod hosting site. They’ve done it for everything else when they’ve been told that they’re asshats.

pory,
@pory@lemmy.world avatar

It’s free to host a mod on github. Mods like this and the pride flag remover for Spooderman are just trolls seeking attention and outrage, so they have to make sure to be very visible and find-able. Nexus has no obligation to host those files and if the modders actually wanted to play the game with the changes (and enable others to do so) it’s totally possible to do that without Nexus. They upload to Nexus (which has a clear policy against this) so that they get exposure when “journalism” reports their mod being deleted (since talking about this is free Engagement™)

Mango,

Right? This is entirely opt-in. Who cares how other people are playing out their fantasies at home? I literally don’t care if someone else is racist or homophobic as long as they’re not pushing that shit on kids, employment prospects, housing decision, or whatever.

Honytawk,

Nobody is preventing them to play their games how they want.

Nexus just doesn’t want to have those mods on their platform.

They can just find some other platform to host those mods if they want. Or keep them to themselves.

Mango,

My point isn’t about them. My point is about you and media companies deciding who gets a platform and then acting like the people you silence are the ones oppressing and censoring. I’m not a Republican. I’m gay AF. I simply loathe double standards and hate seeing Facebook decide who gets heard.

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

So private platform and private parties shouldn’t have the right to moderate and regulate their own spaces?

Mango,

Major media outlets and companies should not be considered private platforms. Anyone can sign up and post while they use their money and influence to decide who gets heard. This is a problem, and I’m pretty ticked off about how people don’t seem to mind when it’s in their favor. Double standards are bad, no matter which side.

Do you think Facebook should get to control which posts rise up and which fall with their analytics around election time? Me neither. Sometimes you gotta put up with some ugly if you don’t want people silenced for their perspective. I don’t want an echo chamber.

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

Major media outlets and companies should not be considered private platforms.

Really? Now I’m curious, how do you imagine that?

I assume the company still pays for the platform, hosting, development, etc. Since it’s public, are they now subsidised by taxes?

Who moderates the platforms then? Are is it all just unmoderated?

Will companies get compansated for lost revenue?

I genuinely curious how you imagine this working.

Anyone can sign up and post while they use their money and influence to decide who gets heard.

Yeah, because it’s theirs. They own it.

If I let everyone into my house for a party, doesn’t mean I lose the right to kick people out.

Sometimes you gotta put up with some ugly if you don’t want people silenced for their perspective. I don’t want an echo chamber.

I’m okay with an echo chamber if it means I don’t have to put up with CP and jihadi execution footage in my cute cat feed.

I assume it would be no problem for you.

Mango,

I’m only coming from the standpoint of how dangerous it is for a mass media outlet to control who has a voice. I don’t know how we can articulate this fairly and would like help for that, but I’m not gonna find help in a sea of people who just wanna take sides and ignore the means.

Why should anyone get to own the only effective avenues of communication? Communication is what determines how the world works.

CP is illegal obviously, and jihad doesn’t make sense in the cute cats category the way ‘straight only game mod’ makes sense in the ‘game mod’ category.

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

Why should anyone get to own the only effective avenues of communication? Communication is what determines how the world works.

Who currently owns the “only effective avenues of communication”?

CP is illegal obviously, and jihad doesn’t make sense in the cute cats category the way ‘straight only game mod’ makes sense in the ‘game mod’ category.

“Sometimes you gotta put up with some ugly if you don’t want people silenced for their perspective.” Seems there’s a limit to the ugly you’re willing to put up with, and you’re quite willing to silence perspectives yourself.

You cleaely still want people to moderate social networks. I assume you’d want these people to outside the company?

Mango,

The line should be drawn at actual harm of course. That can also be indirect.

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

Ah, so you’re pro moderation when you personally find the contect to be even indirectly harmful.

“Double standards are bad, no matter which side.”

VaultBoyNewVegas,

Hell, we’re on a site where you can literally filter what content you see. No one is so pro communication that they’ll happily chat away to someone that they don’t want to be around.

CancerMancer,

Platforms with near-monopoly level control of public discussion should be considered part of the public forum. This weird libertarianism from “lefties” deeply concerns me.

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

A public forum, I assume paid for and maintained by the taxes of the public?

CancerMancer,

Nobody made you open up a social space to the public, and nobody is making you keep it open. Also I want you to explain how you can reconcile being on the left but also supporting corporate rights over those of individual humans?

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

You didn’t answer my question.

Who would pay for the platform, and who would moderate it? Or do you just want even more hate speech to spread?

CancerMancer,

I see, you cannot reconcile being on the left with supporting corporations over people. Not surprised but thank you for confirming.

SuddenlyBlowGreen,

Sorry, life got in the way. I’m not surprised you’re not familiar with such matters.

I am surprised how much you support spreading hate speech by removing the ability of moderation.

zaphodb2002,

This is a stupid take. You’re tired of the people who own and use a platform controlling that platform to represent their morals? If you want a platform to host bigotry, you should make one. They often do so well. Just because someone has something to stupid say doesn’t mean others have to tolerate it in their home or place of business.

Mango,

Nexus mods is doing the bigotry through their removal here. Look in the mirror. Companies are not people.

Have fun with the political landscape being controlled by billionaires. If it’s ok for us, it’s ok for them. Nobody is gonna stop them with hypocrisy and less money.

Fluke,

Nexusmods are doing what they believe is the right thing to attain the highest profit, it’s no more complex than that.

The people in charge voted on where the line in the sand should be (to simplify the corporate process somewhat) and homophobia, they decided, should be on the wrong side. They figure that inclusivity, rather than bigotry, is the way to more customers. (I mean, duh.)

They are entitled to do just that, as the modder is to mod the game how he sees fit.

It is not bigotry to be intolerant of the intolerant, that pathetic argument has been dead since before you were born.

Mango,

Truth and fairness take a back seat to profits. Got it.

It’s not intolerant to offer an alternative game experience for those who might choose it. You’re so lost in the juice that you’re ok with doing things the wrong way so long as it supports your side.

My problem here is that the same mechanism that entities Nexus mods to do this is the one that lets Facebook give Trump a win. You’re all blind to that though because you think this random guy is hurting gays or whatever with a game option that’s not imposed on anyone.

You can’t see the forest for the trees.

EnderofGames,

Truth and fairness take a back seat to profits. Got it.

I see you are incapable of reading, so I’ll just restate this to make it simple for you:

It is not bigotry to be intolerant of the intolerant, that pathetic argument has been dead since before you were born.

Mango,

Modding a game to suit what you wanna play isn’t intolerant. Making your way the only option is. Making it only be their way seems to be what Nexus mods is doing.

Fluke, (edited )

There’s nothing stopping the modder hosting it somewhere that is tolerant or even supportive of their ignorant beliefs.

No-one is making any way be the only option.

Nexusmods isn’t the only place it could be, just to state that again, in simple enough terms it might make a dent.

Once more, just to be sure; Nexusmods has no control over other file hosting services, ergo they cannot “make it their way”. They can only choose what to have on their own site, nowhere else.

Did that penetrate your tin foil hat?

Also:

Modding a game to suit what you wanna play isn’t intolerant.

It is when it’s stated aim is to erase the existence of a specific subset of individuals based on a protected characteristic.

It is, in fact, almost the very fucking definition of intolerance.

You’re either completely ignorant and arguing for the sake of it, or you support, and are arguing for, sowing more of this kind of pointless culture wars shite.

(Which was created by the rich, solely to distract us all from the long overdue class war. Kill the fucking rich, not the other poor bastards in the same boat as you. 👍)

CancerMancer,

It’s fascinating watching how quickly my side has forgotten the state and corporate censorship of the 2000s. I don’t enjoy defending rightoids but I remember being on the losing side and I’d rather be principled now than on the backfoot again when the pendulum swings back.

affiliate,

i don’t care if someone is racist or homophobic unless it affects me

this is a libertarian fever dream. the nature of prejudice is that it does affect other people.

Mango,

Did you literally just use quote notation except change my words? Go fuck yourself.

TopRamenBinLaden,

You should want to make racists uncomfortable when they do a racism, and bigots uncomfortable when they do a bigotry. It’s part of the hidden contract to living in a nice society. Stand up for others who are affected even if you are not. Shit is not cool, and you should care that your brothers and sisters are being marginalized.

captainlezbian,

It really depends, but in general if you feel that lgbt characters or black characters hinder your enjoyment of the game enough to bother modding them away or different then it speaks about who you are in a way that tells me that I dislike you

Schadrach,

To those that are saying they don’t see a problem with this mod. Let me put it to you this way. Instead of a mod that turned one gay woman into a straight man what if it turned one black character into a white character?

There literally was a mod like that in Stardew Valley that turned Demetrius into a white character, and it was rightfully deleted from Nexus mods. If someone has that much of a problem with a character being a different race, sex, gender, or sexual identity then they’re clearly bigoted no matter what they say to the contrary.

It’s gay erasure, and it’s bigotry, plain and simple.

The best thing about mods is that they only effect the person playing with them. I really don’t get the upset over it. Oh, no, someone else might play a version of this game with less gay (or whatever else offends you). I just can’t bring myself to have the energy to be angry about how other people have modded their game when it only effects them.

ReluctantMuskrat,

So if it made all the good guys white and all the bad guys black we shouldn’t be concerned? And if it replaced the dialogue to include racial slurs, no big deal? Why should anyone have an issue with hateful content circulating online?

GBU_28,

Nexus should not host such mods.

But It’s a single player game and anyone who installs such a thing already feels that way.

ShaunaTheDead,
ShaunaTheDead avatar

Because rejecting hateful content and making it fringe and inaccessible is for the good of everyone. Exposure to race, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation based issues makes everyone more aware and empathetic of the issues that other people face, and that's a good thing.

And yes, both of those mod ideas you proposed would be just as bad or worse than this one and should also be deleted from Nexus mods.

ReluctantMuskrat,

Of course we agree. I think you meant your reply for someone else.

Schadrach,

So if it made all the good guys white and all the bad guys black we shouldn’t be concerned?

…and what if it did the reverse? Or eliminated all members of a given race or sex from the game/changed them to a different sex or race?

I’m just going to stand by my original position - someone creating and using a mod only effects themselves and others choosing to use the mod. The fact that other people are using a mod you don’t approve of has no impact on you, and if this mod existing hadn’t got a Vice article most of the folks in this thread upset about it would simply have never known it existed at all, because they’re unlikely to go looking for such a mod.

wizardbeard,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No need for what ifs. Stardew Valley has a very popular and well done mod called Diverse Stardew Valley. Changes nearly all (or all maybe, I’m not sure) the population to minorities or otherwise generally marginalized types.

StorminNorman,

No, they effect everyone. By publishing the mod, the creator told the world exactly how they feel about this subject. If it were the case as you put it, then they’d just create the mod and use it solely for themselves and not tell anyone. It’s still despicable, but at least they aren’t going to hurt anyone as no-one can stumble across it. Instead, they made a choice and the backlash they’ve received is a consequence of that choice.

SkyeStarfall,

Also it’s very tiring for minorities to constantly exist in a hostile world. Imagine knowing that every place you go to has at least someone outright decrying your existence.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Cis straight people generally can’t fathom how it actually feels to exist in a place where the idea that you shouldn’t exist is a popular one. Some douchebag is gonna act like some psycho on the internet saying “kill all straights” is somehow equivalent to one of the major political parties literally platforming on your nonexistence.

VaultBoyNewVegas,

I’m queer and I actually thought lemmy was better than reddit up until now. It’s almost impossible to find a fucking site where I’m not going to have to see assholes who want me shot, silenced or hurt in some other way. It’s exhausting seeing the same shit all the time. It happened when spider man had a mod removed for removing pride flags, it happens when every time a game has a single background gay character, it happened when two women kissed in the last jedi. The same fucking screeching over and over because a minority of the population isn’t straight and exists.

Roflmasterbigpimp,
@Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world avatar

You can still play the mod! It’s not outlawed or anything. It’s just that Nexus didn’t want it on their website. He can easily distribute that Mod elsewhere. It was Nexus’s choise and they choose to get rid of it.

glitches_brew,

As they have every right to do.

Sure, you have freedom of speech, but no, you don’t have the right to use my megaphone to say stupid shit.

Mango,

Which is kind of unfair tbh. It’s the same issue with how Facebook and other social media is controlling exposure to influence politics. I pretty well loathe how some platforms are essentially the only avenue for their purpose, like YouTube.

It doesn’t seem like people really consider the fallout of removing the opposition’s voice either. If we can’t hear the stupid people screaming, we’re not gonna know how stupid they are.

glitches_brew,

How about you make a popular website and then we can decide how valid your opinion that websites should be a soapbox for vocal minorities really is.

Mango,

I can think of a few minorities you wouldn’t speak of the same way.

glitches_brew,

🤡

Mango,

Suit yourself. You won’t beat the big money people at their own game with the same tactics and less resources. You’re gonna have to figure out how communications outlets need to be regulated or they’ll be used against all of us to control image.

glitches_brew,

Oh yeah, the big money people over at nexus mods are surely going to sway geopolitics climates for sure.

Don’t worry bud, mom will bring some nuggets down to the basement soon and so her lil neckbeard won’t be so cranky anymore. 🤡

Roflmasterbigpimp,
@Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world avatar

There are plenty platforms to host mods. You can even just set one up yourself. You don’t have a right to be hosted on exactly the one you want.

Mango,

I’ve never heard of other mod platforms aside from Nexus and Steam.

My only point is that people should have equal voice volume so that huge companies like YouTube aren’t playing nanny with the population.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

No matter how much stupid people scream about being silenced, we never fucking stop hearing them

Mango,

If you don’t hear them, how are you supposed to know they’re stupid? Monitor your own filter list rather than letting Facebook decide what you see.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

But Facebook is the one deciding I should see my conservative relatives bitch about being silenced. If I had my way I would never hear my uncle’s take on whether trans women are women, an issue which he apparently holds so close to his heart that he can’t go ten seconds without posting about it

Mango,

It’s ok if you block them for you. It’s not ok if Facebook blocks them for you without your input. It’s especially not ok when they do that in mass to control the political landscape.

I very strongly believe that filters should not be imposed on people, but rather be privately curated.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s also not okay if the president shoots people in broad daylight. Seems weird to complain about how they could potentially that when they ain’t doing that

Mango,

Nexus mods is doing that. Facebook is doing that. Reddit is doing that. They’re all deciding which arguments you’re allowed to see and which ones are strawman. You’re all tribalistic and only see sides instead of methods.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Nexus mods might be doing that, but I think they’re well within their rights to say “no abject homophobia.” Reddit and Facebook are super not doing that, hence my constant seeing people whine about it even though it isn’t happening

Mango,

Facebook just paid Harvard 500 million dollars to silence people who were investigating how Facebook is doing harm by controlling the narrative with their analytics.

www.google.com/search?q=Harvard+500m+donation+Fac…

Google Link because I have no idea which journalists to trust anymore.

I know Reddit is doing it because they did it with me when I moderated a huge sub and tripped their analytics.

Everyone is trying to control everyone else because they think it makes them safer. The means they use cause harm. Censoring like this is wrong, whether it’s their right or not. Don’t use Nazi tactics to get rid of Nazis.

SaltySalamander,
SaltySalamander avatar

Reddit and Facebook are super not doing that

God DAMN how deep is your head buried in that sand?

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

I guess the sand is full of my conservative family members screaming incessantly about the things they’re supposedly being silenced about

SaltySalamander,
SaltySalamander avatar

You can, quite easily, unsub from your uncle so he doesn't show up in your feed. He'll still be your Facebook friend and won't even know you aren't seeing his drivel anymore. You can do this. Facebook doesn't need to be the arbiter of morality.

BraveSirZaphod,
BraveSirZaphod avatar

Forcing people to host speech they don't want to is far more draconian than not doing so.

You'd probably be more than a little annoyed if I put a swastika sign on your front yard and then told you that you were infringing on my right to free speech when you went to go remove it.

Mango,

Companies are not people and private homes are not platforms for mass communication.

BraveSirZaphod,
BraveSirZaphod avatar

I don't think the government views video game mod hosts as so fundamental to a healthy society that they require strong limitations on their own freedom of speech, but you're welcome to call up your representative and start a campaign for the ability to force Nexus to host Nazis if it's truly important to you.

Mango,

I quit playing League of Legends when they made Groovy Zilean look like a crackhead because the CCP hates drug culture. Every form of media is training your kids.

EnderofGames,

Your “freeze peach” only has to do with your government. You keep pointing out corporations aren’t people as if that had anything to do with this topic, but until you start paying taxes and owning land through Facebook, it’s a non-sequitur.

Mango,

I’m not claiming that the law governs this under free speech. I simply think that free speech is worthless if it’s only in places that go ignored.

If a company is thousands of people, what is private about it? A thousand people can’t keep your secrets. FFS, Facebook is overtly selling access to them. The only ownership of Facebook is through stocks which just means the rich get to decide and the poor don’t.

People actually sell houses and shit on Facebook though. Not sure if that can be used as a reason to regulate them or not. For one, it’s a pretty easy way to discriminate against minorities without directly implicating themselves.

EnderofGames,

I’m not claiming that the law governs this under free speech. I simply think that free speech is worthless if it’s only in places that go ignored.

So why are you forcing Nexus Mods to host this content? What does this have to do with “corporations aren’t people”? Why even bring that comment up?

If a company is thousands of people, what is private about it?

This is just more non-sequiturs. First off, private in this context is privately owned. It doesn’t matter how many people work for them, nor how “secret” a “secret” is if you tell it to everyone (which isn’t a “secret” to begin with). Second off, Nexus Mod’s work force, including community management, is thirteen people.

What you think your free speech should mean, and what you think your country should do with mass media/popular social media has no basis in this conversation.

Mango,

Oh damn. I thought Nexus mods was so much bigger than that!

mindbleach,

Reasons matter.

So much ‘both sides’ nonsense disappears, when you figure out reasons come first.

Nexus blocking bigotry is good, because fuck bigotry. Facebook promoting bigotry is bad, because… fuck bigotry. The fact both actions involve the same mechanism does not matter. If you can’t comprehend a judgement of intent and outcomes, and have to grapple with events in terms of blind actions devoid of context, ask one of your fellow space aliens to explain how humans work.

EatATaco,

If there were a mod that replaced the sex of a straight character you make them gay, would you consider someone definitely a bigot for using it?