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I personally prefer the Franciscan view, which is that Christ as the Second Person of the Trinity would have come to earth even if man had never fallen.

God does not do anything because He is “forced” to do so, and He does not react to events in the same way humans do. It was always His divine plan that the universe and everything in it was made for Christ and His kingdom.

If man had never sinned, Christ would still come to us to welcome us into the fullness of the Divine Life because that is what we were made for, beings in the likeness and image of God who receive His love and in turn pour it back out towards Him and those around us.

Even the act of the Fall and Adam and Eve’s sin did nothing to dictate God’s plans to Himself, or to limit Him by forcing Him to alter His plans. When Christ came to earth, it was to accomplish what He had set out to accomplish since the very first moment of Creation, and because of our failings, that included redemption from sin and death.

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A beautiful testimony from “Jane,” and my biggest respect to the Bishops of England for allowing these women to make their stories heard, in their own voices and their own words. These accounts need to be spread far and wide, because at a time when the secular world refuses to hear the Church on the issue of abortion, I believe God is using these women to reach it instead.

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Pray that the people will maintain their due respect and assent to their proper ecclesiastical authorities, including the Pope during this time of change. May the end result be a further unification between laity and clergy, exhorting the faithful to attend the liturgy with all devotion to Christ and His Church.

Seeing the state of how divisive liturgy can be in the US among some groups, I hope this isn’t a trend we continue to see elsewhere in the world. We all must learn to let go of our own personal preferences, and instead worship God in the way that He desires, revealed through the liturgical traditions of all the churches in communion with Rome.

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I fully agree. Children are the future of the Church and the world, and no measure or restriction is too harsh when it comes to protecting them from abusers and those who seek the power of the Church only to manipulate and exploit others.

I say anyone who is proven to be protecting men like this need to be held just as accountable as the abusers themselves, this the only way to rid ourselves of this disgusting scourge inflicting the Church.

In a somewhat related note, I had a priest friend of mine observe that the crimes that have come to light from the 70’s onward happened after the Church stopped celebrating Ember Days and having the laity praying for the clergy who were being ordained.

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I haven’t put an overly heavy amount of thought on it before, but at least to me, on its face it would make sense for Mary to be spared an earthly death.

Death itself is a consequence of sin, so Mary, having been given the grace of the Immaculate Conception, would have not shared in original sin, so she would not have experienced death at least in the way normal people think. This is just my opinion of course, and I’m happy to be given other viewpoints to think about!

As an aside, the Immaculate Conception is also why some Church Fathers argued that Mary did not experience any labor pains during the birth of Christ.

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Sure, this paper that I just found on the topic is actually very interesting!

Also check out Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Munifecentissimus Deus where he originally declared the Assumption to be dogma.

In that encyclical, he makes several references to old liturgies that reference the fact that before her bodily Assumption it was an ancient tradition to hold that Mary “fell asleep,” for a time. Now as I said before, this isn’t an ordinary sinful human’s death. Mary experienced no pain or suffering, nor fear at the time of her repose, because she remained sinless.

However, this doesn’t mean Catholics can’t hold to an earthly death of the Virgin Mary, as the Eastern Catholic Churches who celebrate the Feast of the Dormition show.

What’s intriguing to me is that in this regard, East and West seem to be focusing on two different aspects of the same event. Whereas the Assumption is a celebration of the Virgin’s bodily resurrection into heaven, the Dormition celebrates her “falling asleep,” again, peaceful and joyful in accordance with the graces given by virtue of her place as Mother of God, she experienced no fear or anguish like us normal humans do at our own deaths. Both of these events are celebrated because of the underlying principles of the Immaculate Conception, and in my opinion creates a beautiful sort of refraction of theological light.

Anglican bishop joins the Catholic Church (wdtprs.com)

Here's some good news. From CBCEW: Right Revd Richard Pain to be received in the Personal Ordinate of Our Lady of Walsingham The Right Revd Richard Pain, a former Bishop of Monmouth, will be received into the full communion of the Catholic Church within the Personal Ordinariate of Our L

WombatsOut, (edited )
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Great news! God bless

As a convert of eight years who has become a member of the Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter and has attended an Ordinariate parish for the past three, I truly believe that the growth that all of the Personal Ordinariates are currently experiencing is a real moment of restoration and revival, not only for Christianity in England specifically, but the perspective the English bring to Christian spirituality, and the hopeful revitalization of Western spirituality as a whole.

I have also fallen in love with many of the English Martyrs and accounts of Christians who lived during the anti-Catholic persecutions at the time. It really bolsters my own faith and encourages me in times of distress, not of persecution, but in dealing with the mundane trials of life!

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Sure! For nearby parishes, our own parish has a robust homeschool co-op that is attended by children of multiple parishes. I’m also aware various items in our parish have been graciously donated from others in the area as well. In particular, the first year of our parish’s life was spent holding services in the chapel of another diocesan parish until we had the resources to buy our own property, so there’s a particular connection in that case.

For the local diocese, I’m a little less knowledgeable I admit. I know that seminarians training for the Ordinariate who are from my geographic area are often sent to the major seminary in my diocese for formation, but it’s also to my understanding the Ordinariate has its own property across from the seminary where they live and are more closely formed in the Ordinariate’s distinct spiritual heritage, and taught to celebrate Mass according to Divine Worship.

For the greater local community, I admit we are a small but growing parish, still operating in a temporary building until we can start construction on the church itself, and so our opportunities for outreach at that level are not yet fully comparable to the more established ones in my area, but even then we frequently do things like food drives, accepting donations for women’s shelters, and encouraging parishioners to volunteer with both other parishes and service groups in the wider community.

Hope this is a satisfying answer!

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